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How to fly the Milviz ADV Phantom?

I just made a new test flight using the F-4J Silver Kings :)
I chose a light payload, with just half internal fuel from the load manager.
After taking off, I played around with the trim. For info, I use only the default P3D trim commands, which are mapped to two buttons on my joystick.

The trim really had to be adjusted quite a lot.
If the flaps are down, the plane will want to nose down quite a lot.
If the air-brake is deployed, the plane will want to nose up a lot.
The nose up/down tendency also depends on the general airspeed.

So yes, not an easy plane to stabilize, unless you're in stable flight conditions (which I was not, since I was circling and doing loopings around the airbase :p ) but nothing impossible. Makes the plane feel more lively than the more recent fly-by-wire beasts. In fact, that Phantom might well be my favorite jet to fly, together with the Tomcats (Dino and Aerosoft), but followed closely by the Milviz F-100 and F-86 ;)
Ah, did I mention the IRIS A-10 too ? I have too much jets :( :biggrin-new:
 
Just taking the opportunity to ask though: how to turn on the external lights ?
It's killing me. I set all the switches to ON in the external lights section (right side of the pilot), excepted that ONE switch which is not clickable. Am I missing anything ?
 
Daube said:
Just taking the opportunity to ask though: how to turn on the external lights ?
It's killing me. I set all the switches to ON in the external lights section (right side of the pilot), excepted that ONE switch which is not clickable. Am I missing anything ?
Click to expand...

You have to enable the master exterior lights switch first. I linked it to the [L] key in MVAMS (under miscellaneous controls > master exterior lights).

BTW: After moving to P3Dv4.5 the standard F-4 did not work anymore so although I did not want all the ADV/TP bells and whistles, I bought the ADV module. I never liked the pitch trim and the strong oscillations, I wish there was a way to use the old standard version in P3Dv4.5. I shelved the MV birds because the SimWorks studios F-4B suits me much better.
 
StormILM said:
Mine are full right, ignore crash detection, also cut off the T-38C's realism on it's menu. Nothing helps. I start the takeoff, all is normal until I rotate, it never gets airborne, the tires blow and then either the gear folds and the engines FOD out or it bounces into the air, gear still damaged, usually one engine out. I had a similar problem with the F-4E ADV in FSX. I rolled back to the base F-4, all was fine.
Click to expand...

The T-38C I am struggling to understand, since with the ADV realism slider turned off you shouldn't get failures period. And its actually easier to fly than the Phantom, at least for me. I am wondering just how much stick you guys are giving....

One of the things that might explain why I find it really easy to fly both, barring any anomalies on your systems, is I have my stick mounted on a stand between my knees, just as it would be in the real jet. While I don't have the same range of motion that the real jet has due to stick length, placing it between my knees allows me to rest my arm on my leg and fly with fine wrist movements rather than whole arm movements.

I learned this when I first tried DCS A-10C, which I find quite frankly more sensitive to pilot inputs than either the Phantom or the T-38C.
 
Milviz ADV Phantom FDE

As the name indicates, I'm an actual retired Naval Aviator. This FDE is unlike any USN aircraft that I have flown. The steps listed to get this Phantom to be able to stop wildly cavorting around the sky are unacceptable (it should NOT fly the way it does!) . I have (unsuccessfully) tried to substitute an .air file from another similar aircraft. As noted, it never flew this way previously. Milviz?

Bill
 
Changing Air or aircraft cfg files (except for new flightsim entries for liveries) with our ADV models will absolutely make them unflyable, as the flight models are external, and the airfile specially tuned to stop the sim from fighting back. That reminds me of another possible issue. If the texture pack was added, I hope the aircraft cfg was not copied over, but rather just the flightsim entries.

One other item I can also think of for P3D users: Make sure your control input source is set to DirectInput, not Raw.
 
And one other item for T-38C users: You can adjust response curves in the MVAMS ala DCS Control Config UI style. Leave sim sensitivity sliders at max, and do control sensitivity adjustments only from the MVAMS. I am planning on adding it to the F-4s.
 
I'll keep thinking of other possible causes but I am certain it is a configuration error on user side that is the cause of the over-sensitive controls. I just tested all the phantoms here, along with the T-38C, and even in out of trim conditions I found the jet to be quite easy to control. I really had to work to make it PIO and even then, the oscillations damped themselves out pretty quickly.
 
I'm afraid I've been struggling with the F4J for a few weeks and I find the aircraft unmanageable indeed unflyable hence unless the developers can come up with a fix the model will be deleted which is a great shame.
 
Here is a list of things I can think of so far:

1: Realism sliders need to be fully to the right (P3D/FSX realism settings, not the ADV config)
2: Control input should be DirectInput, not Raw (P3D only)
3: Axis sensitivity sliders not maxed (counterintuitive I know but I have seen funny things with this)
4: Ezdok or other possible addon conflicting
5: Turbulence enabled
6: Weather addons generating too much turbulence
7: Modified air/cfg files (big no no, except for adding liveries)
 
Depends. If it is sent to the sim as a normal axis, that is fine. If it is sent direct to sim however, or to an offset, things will go haywire.
 
Just wanted to say that I had a delightful flight last evening in the F-4E ADV. It's been a while since testing and I reconfirmed how much I had enjoyed the testing back then.

Make sure that you follow what Jon is saying to check your install and then make sure you work that trim. You won't regret it.
 
I've been looking into the control issues more closely and discovered that the Joy Stick (Logitech Wingman Strike Force 3D) assignments I've made for P3D have not been duplicated into the Milviz Addon Management System. Hence for example the button on my control stick which normally controls elevator trim up in P3D has been reassigned in the Milviz AMS as flaps down. There are several other anomalies like this, its as if Milviz has renumbered the buttons on my Joy Stick.
Anyone got ideas how to get round this?
 
CavOk said:
I've been looking into the control issues more closely and discovered that the Joy Stick (Logitech Wingman Strike Force 3D) assignments I've made for P3D have not been duplicated into the Milviz Addon Management System. Hence for example the button on my control stick which normally controls elevator trim up in P3D has been reassigned in the Milviz AMS as flaps down. There are several other anomalies like this, its as if Milviz has renumbered the buttons on my Joy Stick.
Anyone got ideas how to get round this?
Click to expand...

I don't believe that there's a way around this. You're going to have to set all your switches/buttons in MVAMS.

Dave
 
CavOk said:
I've been looking into the control issues more closely and discovered that the Joy Stick (Logitech Wingman Strike Force 3D) assignments I've made for P3D have not been duplicated into the Milviz Addon Management System. Hence for example the button on my control stick which normally controls elevator trim up in P3D has been reassigned in the Milviz AMS as flaps down. There are several other anomalies like this, its as if Milviz has renumbered the buttons on my Joy Stick. Anyone got ideas how to get round this?
Click to expand...
Clear all your Joystick assignments from the MVAMS and redo them. And make sure your P3D Input method is DirectInput, not Raw. Raw input enumerates things very differently to Direct, which the MVAMS uses.
 
Naruto-kun said:
Clear all your Joystick assignments from the MVAMS and redo them. And make sure your P3D Input method is DirectInput, not Raw. Raw input enumerates things very differently to Direct, which the MVAMS uses.
Click to expand...

I've tried that but the button numbers don't correspond e.g. No2 button in P3D becomes Button 11 in Milviz
 
Have you tried to simply clear all the mappings, and not reassign them in the MVAMS ?
My controls are all unassigned in there. So I just use the regular trim command from P3D, assigned to two buttons on my joystick via the P3D control assignment standard screen, in the sim options.
 
Daube said:
Have you tried to simply clear all the mappings, and not reassign them in the MVAMS ?
My controls are all unassigned in there. So I just use the regular trim command from P3D, assigned to two buttons on my joystick via the P3D control assignment standard screen, in the sim options.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this it seems to be a big improvement but the beast is still fighting me. At least the flight controls are having some authority.
 
Glad to see some improvement :)
Could you provide a bit more details about that "beast still fighting you" ? Do you have a kind of example for me to reproduce on my computer ? Just to check if there is any difference...

I can't really describe how the F-4 flies on my computer... Although it's not really unstable, it's not rock stable as the VRS F/A-18 for example. And I guess that's normal right ? The Phantom does not have the same generation of controls, does it ?
So yes, I have to constantly adjust the trim depending on my speed, or if I deploy the flaps or the air brake or the gears... but that's normal, isn't it ?

Now, if I stay in level flight with stabilized speed, I don't need to touch the trim after I set it correctly...
 
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