How to fly the Milviz ADV Phantom?

Can you raise this as a ticket over at the Milviz support forums?
You're more likely to get your issues addressed over there.

Dave
 
Wings of Gold said:
The problem for me is that FFB gives very realistic feedback to stick input, Without it you really do not replicate the real world. You have not yet answered my observation: If I can very successfully fly the new Milviz SR-71 Beta (also using my FFB stick) - why can't your FDE for the Phantom do the same? I also don't understand why the previous Phantom version FDE had NO problems (also with my FFB), and now we have a list of things we can't use. No list previously! Bill
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Because the SR-71 doesn't use the external flight model system that the ADV aircraft do which is completely external to the simulator. We had to make a compromise, and the results are far better without the poor modelling of FFB in P3D, than they would be with FFB without the external flight model.
 
dhazelgrove said:
Can you raise this as a ticket over at the Milviz support forums?
You're more likely to get your issues addressed over there.

Dave
Click to expand...

I expect if JB felt it was better served to move this discussion to the MV support forum, he'd suggest it. It's still not clear that there is a problem. You, Dimus, JB don't think there's a problem, it's just a "challenging" aircraft. I'm trying to quantify the extent and specific nature of the issue, if any, or help figure out why a number of us are having difficulty that can be fixed at our end. What's interesting is that the majority of users here on this thread are having difficulty. I doubt that datum would have come out if this was started on the support forum. Your specific input and comments on your experience of old vs new might be helpful.
 
I have encountered more than one person with oversensitivity issues with all our ADV models in the support forums and tester chats though, and in each case it has always been one configuration issue or another that has been the cause. Once the configuration problems were sorted the person was able to fly.
 
Today I realized that I was using raw input instead of direct. I changed it and the F-4 became much stabler, I have to say close to the original FDE, although it has been quite a while since I had flown that. Trim input was minimal during configuration changes. I was able to take off with 2.5 units of forward trim without need to retrim as speed built up, just slight stick forward input. The circuit and landing was also stable. Sorry, I was not able to make a video of it.

The change to direct also made the T-38C flyable to me. I have to admit that it was not before.

If not using FFB is a deal breaker for you then the ADV models might not be for you. I would suggest anyone having a problem to go to the MV forums and Jon would help you set up and fly.
 
Naruto-kun said:
I have encountered more than one person with oversensitivity issues with all our ADV models in the support forums and tester chats though, and in each case it has always been one configuration issue or another that has been the cause. Once the configuration problems were sorted the person was able to fly.
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Perhaps, Naruto-kun, but I respectfully refer back to Wings of Gold's comment that the pre-ADV model's FDE did not have such problems. Now granted, it was not the "ADV" model, but surely there should be a easier way to make this model easier to fly? NC
 
Hi Guys,

I too changed to Direct input. Made no difference at all (that I could tell). I also disconnected my FFB stick. Still have the same issues. A Phantom should be able to board the ship at about 150 kias (with appropriate fuel). I am (IMHO) a reasonable "sticK" but under 200 knots it will shortly depart.
I will go to the Milviz forum, as you suggest - but I suspect I will shortly become either a virtual F-14 or F-8 driver.

Best to you all,

Bill
 
At last a smooth flight. FFB reinstated, flight controls calibrated thru FSUIPC, and what seems to have made the most difference FSUIPC Miscellaneous tab and tick Control Spike Elimination for rudder elevator and aileron.
Give this a try.
 
Aside from DirectInput and FFB, I made a list of several other items, like realism sliders, which should be changed. Please check my list near the top of page 2 of this thread. As indicated by others in this thread, they made changes to their config and now the jet is stable. It can be a whole combination of factors causing the instability, not just one. And I should also mention one item regard realism sliders: If they are just slightly off max, even though appearing to be close, potential issues. (P.S. I am Jonathan Bleeker (lead Phantom dev) on Milviz forums.....) (link to list: https://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohfor...-ADV-Phantom?p=1185654&viewfull=1#post1185654 )
 
Question: When you move your stick, what does the cockpit stick animation look like? Is it proportional to your physical inputs?
 
Yes, the stick animation appears to track my actual stick movements quite closely. I also see a similar response when compared to the MV T38C, T38A and F100D.

One question, since I did nor explore this setting extensively: What axis sensitivity setting would you recommend?

I'll also say, for clarification, that once at a decent cruising speed, flaps up etc., I am able to control it things fine. The excessive pitchyness is most apparent at slower (i.e. during take off and approach) speeds. For instance, I could never do a carrier landing on my setup right now.
 
Max sensitivity. Otherwise you get funny values coming through the axis events.

At slow speeds, you want to make sure that you are going fast enough for your weight. Best get your jet down to a pretty light fuel load. They normally trapped these things near empty.
 
Naruto-kun said:
Max sensitivity. Otherwise you get funny values coming through the axis events.
Click to expand...

I've been following this thread for some time, and this seems to have made the difference for me. Just did a test circuit out of the default field, trying it out with axis sensitivities maxed and null zones at 19, and the F-4J seemed pretty stable for me. It will take me a little while to get used to the new sensitivities, because the bird seems susceptible to pilot-induced oscillations. I use a CH Fighterstick, and it takes a bit of effort to deflect the joystick, so that will take some practice (oh no, more flying! :playful:).

Still seems a bit sensitive with the nose trim control, but that could just be my set-up in P3D.

Thanks for all the assistance, JB.
 
Naruto-kun said:
Max sensitivity. Otherwise you get funny values coming through the axis events.

At slow speeds, you want to make sure that you are going fast enough for your weight. Best get your jet down to a pretty light fuel load. They normally trapped these things near empty.
Click to expand...

Having tanks near empty does improve the aircraft's manageability for landing. I still think there is room for improvement in terms of pitch control responsiveness/oscillations.
 
Well, I have tried every suggested option. For months now, I have been using a Sidewinder 2 Force Feedback joystick with no problems on any other aircraft, in conjunction with a Saitek X52 throttle, and rudder pedals. But no matter what adjustments I have made with sensitivities, null settings, etc...., this ADV model is just not controllable (for me at least). I made sure trim settings were made. Everything. But I am not able to fly this aircraft as it is currently modeled. The external model and cockpit are beautiful, and the sound is extremely accurate. Having worked on F-4s for years, back in the mid 1970s, I can testify to the wonderful reproduction of those howling J79s!

I have to unfortunately throw in the towel on this one, though. I can look at it, and taxi it around; but fly it? I am not able to. I even temporarily replaced the Sidewinder FF joystick with my Saitek X52 joystick. But the same "bucking bronco" flight dynamics exist.

Navy Chief
 
The exact same here. Tried all of the suggestions with no luck.
I know someone will post it works fine for them … not sure what that means … but for me it doesn't fly.
 
One of these days I will get an update into it that the new T-38C has. DCS style control sensitivity curves in the MVAMS that allow a bit more hamfisted movements of physical hardware.
 
Naruto-kun said:
One of these days I will get an update into it that the new T-38C has. DCS style control sensitivity curves in the MVAMS that allow a bit more hamfisted movements of physical hardware.
Click to expand...

I tried everything as well and to no avail. To explain exactly what I am seeing, it is as if the wing fold function was in the fold position (even though the T-38 doesn't have this function) and it simply won't get airborne. The model drags it's tail on the runway, then the gear and engines fail. Never seen anything like this behavior before except when I had a model take off with folded wings.
 
Naruto-kun said:
One of these days I will get an update into it that the new T-38C has. DCS style control sensitivity curves in the MVAMS that allow a bit more hamfisted movements of physical hardware.
Click to expand...


"Hamfisted"? Love it! I most definitely appreciate that you may someday make some improvements to the control sensitivities. For old fogeys like me, having a easier option to fly the ADV Phantom would be a welcome solution. NC
 
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