W
winslow33
Guest
Wow... the jeep is impressive. Looks a h
ll of a lot better than my repainted KG 200 static jeep...:redf:
ll of a lot better than my repainted KG 200 static jeep...:redf:
Hi Hubbabubba,
As you might have already noticed, I am not much for doing tutorials. The reason why is that they don't normally progress any of my tasks. In this case though, the two might just overlap a bit. One of my projects is to rebuild the A6M5 Zero that I built a few years back into a A6M2 Zero. The A6M2 has a slightly longer wingspan than the A6M5. The A6M5 wing texture was made as large as possible and there is no room in the texture files unless the wing were rescaled. Rebuilding the wing polygons is not difficult but re-texturing is tedious. Now I have an excuse to do this because I can take some screenshots for a tutorial. The intermediate step will be a A6M3 Model 22 Zero (Longer wings but no cowl reshaping).
I was debating on texturing the wheels on a SBD or a CW-21B as an example because they illustrate more techniques. With wings, there isn't a scale to match with other texture files. Those two planes are not anywhere near completion though.
Regarding the Jeep: It's beautiful! There isn't anything that AF99 can do that SCASM can't, so there is no doubt that your jeep will look better than whatever I build. I just believe that I can build something with much less effort that won't look a whole lot worse. I have a rather cool idea for the wheels that I believe you will like.
Wasn't there someone who was building a deuce (truck) a while back?
- Ivan.
As you might have already noticed, I am not much for doing tutorials. The reason why is that they don't normally progress any of my tasks. In this case though, the two might just overlap a bit. One of my projects is to rebuild the A6M5 Zero that I built a few years back into a A6M2 Zero. The A6M2 has a slightly longer wingspan than the A6M5. The A6M5 wing texture was made as large as possible and there is no room in the texture files unless the wing were rescaled. Rebuilding the wing polygons is not difficult but re-texturing is tedious. Now I have an excuse to do this because I can take some screenshots for a tutorial. The intermediate step will be a A6M3 Model 22 Zero (Longer wings but no cowl reshaping).
I was debating on texturing the wheels on a SBD or a CW-21B as an example because they illustrate more techniques. With wings, there isn't a scale to match with other texture files. Those two planes are not anywhere near completion though.
Regarding the Jeep: It's beautiful! There isn't anything that AF99 can do that SCASM can't, so there is no doubt that your jeep will look better than whatever I build. I just believe that I can build something with much less effort that won't look a whole lot worse. I have a rather cool idea for the wheels that I believe you will like.
Wasn't there someone who was building a deuce (truck) a while back?
- Ivan.
J
Johnny
Guest
Guilty as charged.
~S~ All,
Ivan, I was building the Duce, and gave up, for good reasons.
Hubbabubba, all I can say is WOW! I have seen a lot of Jeeps in my life and could knit pick on little things, but it is great. I can see where the knowledge of scenery comes into play. I am guessing that the Jeep file is much bigger then all of AAC_Ripe? I am also guessing it is the M1 Jeep?
Congratulations, it is a beauty,
Johnny
~S~ All,
Ivan, I was building the Duce, and gave up, for good reasons.
Hubbabubba, all I can say is WOW! I have seen a lot of Jeeps in my life and could knit pick on little things, but it is great. I can see where the knowledge of scenery comes into play. I am guessing that the Jeep file is much bigger then all of AAC_Ripe? I am also guessing it is the M1 Jeep?
Congratulations, it is a beauty,
Johnny
hubbabubba
Charter Member
Not at all! The MDL file is at 70Kb only. The textures do increase the size of the file but it should be around 10Mb upon completion with all original sounds, textures and panel.
It is a mix of Ford GPW with parts from Willy's MB, as it was frequently seen during the war. To be sure, you will have to get under to check the front chassis...
J
Johnny
Guest
70Kb
~S~ Hubbabubba,
The Minute-Maid Zips out at 27.8 Mb, but it is a lot bigger then a Jeep.
J.
~S~ Hubbabubba,
The Minute-Maid Zips out at 27.8 Mb, but it is a lot bigger then a Jeep.
J.
hubbabubba
Charter Member
from Johnny
This is heavy, too heavy to be correct in fact. This project must have something way wrong. Your last e-mail was referring to a 39Mb baby. AAC_Ripe stands at 19.4Mb, unzipped!
This is the kind of file I would only dream of uploading during the night. So it will have to wait.
Ivan, are-you telling me that the chord of A6M3 Model 22 Zero at the wingtip is 3.86 feet? That thing should fly like a kite.
J
Johnny
Guest
Minute-Maid
~S~ Hubbabubba,
I only sent the link out of respect. It is still a work in progress. You have me wondering. What all goes into the file? The AF99 folder is full of parts that I did not use, are those in there as well? The Sound file is over 32Mb, I think I can bring that down.
I will be back,
J.
How does 2.1Mb sound?
~S~ Hubbabubba,
I only sent the link out of respect. It is still a work in progress. You have me wondering. What all goes into the file? The AF99 folder is full of parts that I did not use, are those in there as well? The Sound file is over 32Mb, I think I can bring that down.
I will be back,
J.
How does 2.1Mb sound?
hubbabubba
Charter Member
This makes more sense...
Sound files can be heavy, but 32Mb is overkill! I just checked my Taifun sound folder; 7.08 Mb.:redf:
wow - it has been so long since I touched CFS1 that I had forgotten how small the files were - I have individual texture folders that are larger than 20 Mbs! I think I have one aircraft that tops out at more that a gigabyte when you include all the liveries, gauges, sounds, panel files, readmes, etc... a tiny mdl for an AI specific aircraft is still usually around 200 Kbs!
Great work you guys!
Great work you guys!
Hi Johnny,
The parts you have that aren't part of the AF99 assembly are NOT included. I have generally about 30 template parts that never make it into the final assembly.
Hi Hubbabubba,
The tip chord is more like 4.5 feet. The 3.86 foot dimension was the leading and trailing edges projected out to the rounded wing tip. This is not a particularly unsual size. Consider that a 40 foot wing with a tip chord of 4 feet and a root chord of 6 feet would only have 200 square feet of area which is on the small side.
I have a Spitfire Mk.VII, a Macchi C202 Folgore, a P-51D, a Me 109G, a A6M5 Zero, Me 262, SBD Dauntless, F4F Wildcat all within walking distance from my office.
The changes to the wing from A6M5 to A6M3-22 were actually MUCH worse than I thought they would be.
1. Dihedral angle from 6 degrees to 5 degrees 42 minutes.
2. Leading edge sweep increased
3. Wing tip thickness was reduced from about 12% to about 8%
4. A very small amount of washout was put in.
5. Check polygons for alignment and adjust parts and jigs.
Still to do:
Flaps no longer line up with rebuilt wing. Need to rebuild
Pitot does not meet wing leading edge. Need to rebuild and realign textures
Retexture the wing (The point of this exercise).
Sad thing is that most of this work won't be easily visible.
- Ivan.
The parts you have that aren't part of the AF99 assembly are NOT included. I have generally about 30 template parts that never make it into the final assembly.
Hi Hubbabubba,
The tip chord is more like 4.5 feet. The 3.86 foot dimension was the leading and trailing edges projected out to the rounded wing tip. This is not a particularly unsual size. Consider that a 40 foot wing with a tip chord of 4 feet and a root chord of 6 feet would only have 200 square feet of area which is on the small side.
I have a Spitfire Mk.VII, a Macchi C202 Folgore, a P-51D, a Me 109G, a A6M5 Zero, Me 262, SBD Dauntless, F4F Wildcat all within walking distance from my office.
The changes to the wing from A6M5 to A6M3-22 were actually MUCH worse than I thought they would be.
1. Dihedral angle from 6 degrees to 5 degrees 42 minutes.
2. Leading edge sweep increased
3. Wing tip thickness was reduced from about 12% to about 8%
4. A very small amount of washout was put in.
5. Check polygons for alignment and adjust parts and jigs.
Still to do:
Flaps no longer line up with rebuilt wing. Need to rebuild
Pitot does not meet wing leading edge. Need to rebuild and realign textures
Retexture the wing (The point of this exercise).
Sad thing is that most of this work won't be easily visible.
- Ivan.
J
Johnny
Guest
Aircraft
~S~ All,
Thanks Ivan for reminding me that we will have an Air Show this Saturday in Lumberton, MS. They usual have about half a dozen vintage craft. This year is suppose to be bigger and better. I will have to bring my camera with me. Most people go for the Ax Throwing or the Hot-Dog Eating Contest. I am sure that P-51 D will show up and I can find out who's it is. It has not buzzed the house in months.
All of that calculating makes me glad I do not build aircraft.
~S~ EMatheson, Glad to see you on board, but I think that is way to much information to give out. I am talking about your address. Spark up your CFS and join us for some fun on Sunday. If you want directions, just say so.
j.:cost1:
~S~ All,
Thanks Ivan for reminding me that we will have an Air Show this Saturday in Lumberton, MS. They usual have about half a dozen vintage craft. This year is suppose to be bigger and better. I will have to bring my camera with me. Most people go for the Ax Throwing or the Hot-Dog Eating Contest. I am sure that P-51 D will show up and I can find out who's it is. It has not buzzed the house in months.
All of that calculating makes me glad I do not build aircraft.
~S~ EMatheson, Glad to see you on board, but I think that is way to much information to give out. I am talking about your address. Spark up your CFS and join us for some fun on Sunday. If you want directions, just say so.
j.:cost1:
hubbabubba
Charter Member
If its any consolation, Ivan, I agree; what we break our as for is what nobody will ever notice:costumes:. Better get used to it...Hello Hubbabubba,
I AM used to it. I probably should start another thread because this is going to get into texturing a bit, but this is somewhat related.
A funny thing happened in the hangar last night. I was setting up the machine to cut metal for the right wing using the left wing as a template when the duplicating machine malfunctioned (user error in setup) and ate all the left wing panels.
(I set up a script to mirror all the left side wing panels to right side and goofed it up. It overwrote all the left side part files.)
I was somewhat upset by the accident until I realised that this was the perfect opportunity to reset the wing tip thickness from 8% to 9% which is the actual measurement. I rebuilt the jigs and in about 1.5 hours, the parts for both sides were finished. I still don't like the shape of the trailing edge of the wing tip because it does not follow the aileron shape, so will likely rebuild it again.
I also reworked the Painting template part to match the new wing. See screenshots.
First is the current wing with no texture changes and the second illustrates the reworking of the painting template. The template is a single AFP part that matches the outline of the part being painted.
- Ivan.
I AM used to it. I probably should start another thread because this is going to get into texturing a bit, but this is somewhat related.
A funny thing happened in the hangar last night. I was setting up the machine to cut metal for the right wing using the left wing as a template when the duplicating machine malfunctioned (user error in setup) and ate all the left wing panels.
(I set up a script to mirror all the left side wing panels to right side and goofed it up. It overwrote all the left side part files.)
I was somewhat upset by the accident until I realised that this was the perfect opportunity to reset the wing tip thickness from 8% to 9% which is the actual measurement. I rebuilt the jigs and in about 1.5 hours, the parts for both sides were finished. I still don't like the shape of the trailing edge of the wing tip because it does not follow the aileron shape, so will likely rebuild it again.
I also reworked the Painting template part to match the new wing. See screenshots.
First is the current wing with no texture changes and the second illustrates the reworking of the painting template. The template is a single AFP part that matches the outline of the part being painted.
- Ivan.
J
Johnny
Guest
AFP part
~S~ Ivan,
Could you please explain: "The template is a single AFP part that matches the outline of the part being painted."
j.:isadizzy:
~S~ Ivan,
Could you please explain: "The template is a single AFP part that matches the outline of the part being painted."
j.:isadizzy:
Hi Johnny,
The wing is a component. I create a single AFP with vertices at each of the points of the component. I also add vertices and lines to represent other related parts. You should be able to see a gear door outline and lines for the flaps and ailerons.
The resulting "part" is just a jumble of lines but works pretty well as an overlay for AF5Paint. AF5Paint in theory also works with components, but is an old DOS application and might have issues with parts of the component that are not in 8.3 format which is why I use a single AFP for the overlay. There are also fewer lines which limits the confusion when texturing.
I like for SOME of the polygon edges to line up with the panel lines / control surfaces, so I will mostly likely rework and add one polygon to the trailing edge at the wingtip. I don't know if I want to leave a sparkly at the edge of the panel.
- Ivan.
The wing is a component. I create a single AFP with vertices at each of the points of the component. I also add vertices and lines to represent other related parts. You should be able to see a gear door outline and lines for the flaps and ailerons.
The resulting "part" is just a jumble of lines but works pretty well as an overlay for AF5Paint. AF5Paint in theory also works with components, but is an old DOS application and might have issues with parts of the component that are not in 8.3 format which is why I use a single AFP for the overlay. There are also fewer lines which limits the confusion when texturing.
I like for SOME of the polygon edges to line up with the panel lines / control surfaces, so I will mostly likely rework and add one polygon to the trailing edge at the wingtip. I don't know if I want to leave a sparkly at the edge of the panel.
- Ivan.
hubbabubba
Charter Member
Great pictures Ivan! The first one tell it all; we clearly see the elongation of the wing tips.
Your blueprint also show that you have come to use triangles for pretty much all wing surfaces. This would greatly help in "bending square" concavities.
Are you using NACA airfoils data for your wings, or do you get the wing shape from other sources?
Anyway, I just hope that you will open your treasure chest and release some of those little wonders tucked-in...
Your blueprint also show that you have come to use triangles for pretty much all wing surfaces. This would greatly help in "bending square" concavities.
Are you using NACA airfoils data for your wings, or do you get the wing shape from other sources?
Anyway, I just hope that you will open your treasure chest and release some of those little wonders tucked-in...
J
Johnny
Guest
Lines
~S~ All,
Ivan, I noticed that the line goes on and on it even appears to go under the cockpit. I tried that on Khloee, but only had limited success, with small parts of the tracks.
j.
~S~ All,
Ivan, I noticed that the line goes on and on it even appears to go under the cockpit. I tried that on Khloee, but only had limited success, with small parts of the tracks.
j.
Hi Johnny,
I believe you are not understanding the purpose of the part that I am calling ZP_WingL.afp. It isn't a part of the airplane. It is just a part that has the same outlines as pieces of the plane I wish to paint. It can't even properly be called a polygon because often the endpoints don't close and the lines overlap. It is one of the typical 30 or so AFPs that are just template parts I use in a project.
The Pitot and its textures were relocated and the pitot was shortened a bit since the last screenshot. (This was a non-trivial task.)
Observe that the polygon lines now pretty much match up with the outline of where the aileron should be. Every single polygon in the wing has been redone at least twice since the last AF99 screenshot. This resulted in 4 additional polygons per wingtip. The early model Zero has a parabolic outline at the wingtip (from Eagles of Mitsubishi by Jiro Horikoshi)which I have tried to duplicate by eyeball. I also included a profile shot for general amusement.
Hi Hubbabubba,
This project was one of my first many years ago. It was based on a set of rather poor drawings from a book I had. I kept using drawings from the book until I got to the Shiden-KAI and the issues were too blatant to be ignored. (That is also why my Corsairs are too fat.)
Regarding the triangulated polygons in the wings, it is basically a waste of resources because I didn't know any better at the time. It only costs about 15 or so extra polys so I am probably not going to fix it. These days, I only triangulate when a polygon is VERY non-planar. If you look very closely, the flap outline on the wing does not align with any of the wing polygons. That is the next thing to fix but only one side at a time so that I can copy the animation sequences from the unmodified one.
The airfoil shapes are not really based on anything precise. They are just eyeball airfoil shapes. (The Spitfire has a 2200 series airfoil but the one I built looks more like a 23000 series.) The chord is pretty close, the thickness is proportional, but otherwise, it is just a cambered, sharpened tear drop.
Hope I covered everything.
- Ivan.
I believe you are not understanding the purpose of the part that I am calling ZP_WingL.afp. It isn't a part of the airplane. It is just a part that has the same outlines as pieces of the plane I wish to paint. It can't even properly be called a polygon because often the endpoints don't close and the lines overlap. It is one of the typical 30 or so AFPs that are just template parts I use in a project.
The Pitot and its textures were relocated and the pitot was shortened a bit since the last screenshot. (This was a non-trivial task.)
Observe that the polygon lines now pretty much match up with the outline of where the aileron should be. Every single polygon in the wing has been redone at least twice since the last AF99 screenshot. This resulted in 4 additional polygons per wingtip. The early model Zero has a parabolic outline at the wingtip (from Eagles of Mitsubishi by Jiro Horikoshi)which I have tried to duplicate by eyeball. I also included a profile shot for general amusement.
Hi Hubbabubba,
This project was one of my first many years ago. It was based on a set of rather poor drawings from a book I had. I kept using drawings from the book until I got to the Shiden-KAI and the issues were too blatant to be ignored. (That is also why my Corsairs are too fat.)
Regarding the triangulated polygons in the wings, it is basically a waste of resources because I didn't know any better at the time. It only costs about 15 or so extra polys so I am probably not going to fix it. These days, I only triangulate when a polygon is VERY non-planar. If you look very closely, the flap outline on the wing does not align with any of the wing polygons. That is the next thing to fix but only one side at a time so that I can copy the animation sequences from the unmodified one.
The airfoil shapes are not really based on anything precise. They are just eyeball airfoil shapes. (The Spitfire has a 2200 series airfoil but the one I built looks more like a 23000 series.) The chord is pretty close, the thickness is proportional, but otherwise, it is just a cambered, sharpened tear drop.
Hope I covered everything.
- Ivan.