I Finally Saw Avatar...

[Quixoticish]

Then my not seeing it yet means I haven't missed anything substantial?

Not really, in my opinion anyway. I mean, it wasn't 2012 or Meet The Spartans bad, and it was very pretty to look at. But that's about the best praise I can come up with.

It reminded me of a made for IMax film, all style and no substance.

 

[djscoo]

Avatar was a neat movie, but not a deep one. Mr. Stallings is correct, but I'll add that the lackluster storyline was most likely not the result of laziness or lack of imagination. Avatar is a prime example of lowest common denominator marketing (aimed at an audience with an IQ of 100). It has beautiful special effects which have a mass appeal. Paired with an easy to understand and relatable (read: recycled) storyline which won't confuse children or individuals less inclined to understand subtle themes. The thematic elements of Avatar are right out in the open. Everyone in the audience is in on the message. I'm not calling anyone who liked Avatar stupid, heck I liked it and have seen it twice, I do however take exception to anyone calling it the best film of the year or decade. If you modified that to best marketed film of the decade, I might agree with you.

 

[Lionheart]

I thought the story line was great and well done. I dont see how you guys think it didnt have a good story line. It filled in the history before the story was taking place, him and his dead brother, both marines, how he starts to fall in love with this alien, how his life is totally changing by being around these people.

It is quite similar to Dances with Wovles in that he learns their spoken language, the 'elder to be' is quite like the guy (indian brave) in DwW, the girl, the outcome, etc.

I thought the near end where the base is being escorted to ships, allowed to leave 'alive' was funny. I liked that part, lolol...

I also thought it was a good wakeup call for us as a race that might be on the edge of going off world. What if we find life out there and pull this stunt. That would be horrible. Look at what we have done to the ocean with garbage and debris, floating plastic masses out in the oceans. I think as a race we need to learn a few things like taking care of our environment instead of destroying it. Note how they were strip-mining that beautiful planet just for the magnetic mineral there. I am sure there are other worlds that have this element but they didnt want to look. They wanted that mineral 'there'.

This is why we have groups like greenpeace, to keep others from destroying parts of our world that could never be recovered....


Bill

 

[Toastmaker]

. . .This is why we have groups like greenpeace, to keep others from destroying parts of our world that could never be recovered....


Bill

Oh - that's it! I thought it was to spice up the lives of loggers with the chance of being maimed or killed by a spiked tree or by their equipment being blown up. . . silly me -

 

[Skittles]

I have to go with Toastmaker.

I enjoyed the film, the special effects were lovely, and in some parts I did identify with the characters (between Sully and whatsherface).

However, the story and scriptwriting was AWFUL. Abysmal.

Great achievement, and I'll definately buy the DVD, but it's a shame they couldn't get their act together on the script.

Hurt Locker was definately the worthy winner at the Oscars.

 

[Blackbird686]

I saw Avatar the first time in 2D and initially thought of the "Dances with Wolves" similarity... so I came out of the theater somewhat disappointed, not thinking of the tremendous effort that went into the making of the film, let alone the cost. A month or so later I went back and saw it again, this time in 3D... with the glasses and all... All I could say then was WOW! Leaving my critical mind at home in the livingroom in front of the TV was the best thing I could have ever done for Avatar, and the second time around I really enjoyed it. I like Bill's analogy too.... we need to become more aware and sensitive to the nature around us and stop being such a lot of "Scouns" (The Na'vi word for morons)

You can purchase Avatar on BlueRay or DVD... I have a 1080 flatscreen and have the BlueRay version of the movie, but haven't watched it yet. I've been to Pandora twice now... I don't think I'm ready to return there just yet.

BB686:USA-flag:

 

[Ken Stallings]

This is why we have groups like greenpeace, to keep others from destroying parts of our world that could never be recovered....


Bill

With respects, I know a bit about Greenpeace, and to say they are trying to keep humanity from destroying ourselves is a bit of a reach.

In my personal view, if we had followed the desires of Greenpeace back in the early 1980's, the Cold War would still be ongoing! My view is that the end of the Cold War did a whole lot more to prevent destruction of our planet than anything Greenpeace ever thought about doing! And the methods that ended the Cold War were nearly totally opposed by Greenpeace the whole way!

And in terms of positive environmental efforts, give me the efforts of such groups as the original Audibon Society when John Muir was running it and also the hunter's group, Ducks Unlimited.

Those groups that quietly assemble the money by appealing to a very wide audience, and then quietly put the money to harmonious useage in the creation of wetlands and natural conservation, are the groups that really achieve the lasting results. Take a look at the stats. Ducks Unlimited is responsible for more wetlands expansion than any other organization in America.

Getting yourself splashed across the newspapers might get you a number of tasty interviews, but by alienating a goodly portion of otherwise supporting people, your efforts fizzle out long before you can achieve your stated goals.

At least, that's my take on it.

Cheers,

Ken

 

[jmig]

Avatar was a neat movie, but not a deep one. Mr. Stallings is correct, but I'll add that the lackluster storyline was most likely not the result of laziness or lack of imagination. Avatar is a prime example of lowest common denominator marketing (aimed at an audience with an IQ of 100). It has beautiful special effects which have a mass appeal. Paired with an easy to understand and relatable (read: recycled) storyline which won't confuse children or individuals less inclined to understand subtle themes. The thematic elements of Avatar are right out in the open. Everyone in the audience is in on the message. I'm not calling anyone who liked Avatar stupid, heck I liked it and have seen it twice, I do however take exception to anyone calling it the best film of the year or decade. If you modified that to best marketed film of the decade, I might agree with you.

Son, this is one well thought out and expressed concept. I think you hit the nail on the head, to use a cliche. Avatar is first and foremost an entertaining movie. The fact that is is the largest grossing film ever made is testament to its entertainment value. Not every movie has to be a work of art.

Ladies and Gentlemen, let's leave the reference and inferences to Greenpeace or other political-environmental groups out of this discussion. Too much potential for trouble there.

 

[boxcar]

.

The poetic justice for me, and one of the rare good moments of the Academy Awards, was to see Cameron's ex-wife walk away with the ultimate hardware for her excellent movie, "The Hurt Locker."

As much as I enjoy Avatar, am agreeing with you here as well as with most of what you write. As djscoo aptly points out: great entertainment. Blackbird686's sharing of "Leaving my critical mind at home in the livingroom in front of the TV was the best thing I could have ever done for Avatar" is pretty spot-on as well... a movie much more enjoyed if not over-analyzed.
.

Cameron could have captured that magic, but to my view, he simply wasn't willing to spend the time needed to fully polish all aspects of the movie. ... He could have taken more time and made an immortal classic.

This is what I disagree with, as James Cameron spent a lot of time over the course of 14 years doing so, actually making it the last 4 after CGI had caught up with his vision. If he didn't make it a "Wizard of Oz" in all that time then all the more poetic justice regarding the selection of "The Hurt Locker", which also interestingly enough was the lowest-budget movie of the whole nominated lot.
.
.

 

[tigisfat]

As much as I enjoy Avatar, am agreeing with you here as well as with most of what you write. As djscoo aptly points out: great entertainment. Blackbird686's sharing of "Leaving my critical mind at home in the livingroom in front of the TV was the best thing I could have ever done for Avatar" is pretty spot-on as well... a movie much more enjoyed if not over-analyzed.

Exactly. We can bag on the plot of most movies all day, as there are only so many to go around.

 

[dswo]

Some kind of exploration of the human condition in the here and now (political commentary, prophecy based on current understandings, extrapolated warnings about the future, social criticism etc) are a vital part of science fiction...

I agree. One of my favorite SF films is Starship Troopers. It's fun, but it's also a parody of government propaganda. You can look at it through the story (and enjoy the story for what it is); and you can also look at it from the side, as an example of how fiction is used to manipulate public sentiment (although for what purpose the movie never says, so far as I can tell). All this in spite of shallow characters.

I enjoyed Avatar for the visuals. I agree with the critique part of the film's message -- that the single-minded pursuit of money is endangering our planet -- but wasn't impressed with the dialogue, or the proposed solution (nature religion). It has better acting but, compared with Starship Troopers, it's relatively flat: the dialogue's no worse, but the story can only be viewed from one angle, head-on.

 

[norab]

I think one thing has been lost from sight here. Avatar, like all commercial films, books, television shows, plays, and musical works, is designed to be a public entertainment that creates income for it's creators and producers. There is nothing wrong with this and deeper meesages and originality, while fine, are not required. At this it is a complete sucess. the Star Wars script has been mentioned as original but it is only a revamping of themes that occur over and over again in mythology and literature. All great and enduring non religious works began life as public entertainments. Shakespeare was trying to enrich himself not create great classical literature.It is the test of time and public opinion that establishes greatness, not philosophy or politics. my two cents

 

[jmig]

I think one thing has been lost from sight here. Avatar, like all commercial films, books, television shows, plays, and musical works, is designed to be a public entertainment that creates income for it's creators and producers. There is nothing wrong with this and deeper meesages and originality, while fine, are not required. At this it is a complete sucess. the Star Wars script has been mentioned as original but it is only a revamping of themes that occur over and over again in mythology and literature. All great and enduring non religious works began life as public entertainments. Shakespeare was trying to enrich himself not create great classical literature.It is the test of time and public opinion that establishes greatness, not philosophy or politics. my two cents

Excellent points!

 

[Quixoticish]

I agree. One of my favorite SF films is Starship Troopers. It's fun, but it's also a parody of government propaganda. You can look at it through the story (and enjoy the story for what it is); and you can also look at it from the side, as an example of how fiction is used to manipulate public sentiment (although for what purpose the movie never says, so far as I can tell). All this in spite of shallow characters.

I enjoyed Avatar for the visuals. I agree with the critique part of the film's message -- that the single-minded pursuit of money is endangering our planet -- but wasn't impressed with the dialogue, or the proposed solution (nature religion). It has better acting but, compared with Starship Troopers, it's relatively flat: the dialogue's no worse, but the story can only be viewed from one angle, head-on.

Starship Troopers is fantastic. Have you ever read the original text by Heinlein? Many of the things that are critiqued in the film are actually championed in the novella, it's actually a rather disconcerting read these days but to me it makes the film that much more special; the fact that they have used the same story as a vessel to actually criticise the morals and ethics that the text supports is a neat little twist.

Another series of books that I wholeheartedly recommend are Joe Haldeman's "Forever" series (Forever War, Forever Free and Forever Peace) as thematically it's quite similar to the Starship Troopers film.

 

[n4gix]

I wouldn't mind seeing a series developed around "Hammer's Slammers" either... :ernae:

 

[Ken Stallings]

Starship Troopers is fantastic. Have you ever read the original text by Heinlein? Many of the things that are critiqued in the film are actually championed in the novella, it's actually a rather disconcerting read these days but to me it makes the film that much more special; the fact that they have used the same story as a vessel to actually criticise the morals and ethics that the text supports is a neat little twist.

Another series of books that I wholeheartedly recommend are Joe Haldeman's "Forever" series (Forever War, Forever Free and Forever Peace) as thematically it's quite similar to the Starship Troopers film.

The book, Starship Troopers, explores complex themes in original ways. The book is as much a critical look at democratic societies and in many ways challenges people to rise and maintain the level of behavior vital for a democracy to thrive. It does this by showing a previously democratic and open society that failed sometime in the past and morphed into one that coerced citizenship through various methods that were deliberately shocking to the reader.

It is a cultural examination of societal decay due to greed, immorality, apathy, and an inward turn toward satisfying the desires of the individual rather than meeting the needs of society. In that respect, the book is a probing challenge for people to remember that ultimate, John Kennedy was right when he said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for you country!"

Unfortunately, the movie merely touched upon these themes from the book and also showed a fight foolishly carried out. In the book, the bugs were fought in a vastly more intelligent manner vice the masses of people versus masses of bugs concept in the movie.

But, the movie did at least play on many of the book's valuable themes, enough so that it rose slightly above the cartoonish movie it would have otherwise been. I still think Paul Verhooven could have made a much better movie had he had the courage to resist the mass appeal aim and focused on the book's commentaries more.

Cheers,

Ken

 

[Quixoticish]

The book, Starship Troopers, explores complex themes in original ways. The book is as much a critical look at democratic societies and in many ways challenges people to rise and maintain the level of behavior vital for a democracy to thrive. It does this by showing a previously democratic and open society that failed sometime in the past and morphed into one that coerced citizenship through various methods that were deliberately shocking to the reader.

It is a cultural examination of societal decay due to greed, immorality, apathy, and an inward turn toward satisfying the desires of the individual rather than meeting the needs of society. In that respect, the book is a probing challenge for people to remember that ultimate, John Kennedy was right when he said, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for you country!"

Unfortunately, the movie merely touched upon these themes from the book and also showed a fight foolishly carried out. In the book, the bugs were fought in a vastly more intelligent manner vice the masses of people versus masses of bugs concept in the movie.

But, the movie did at least play on many of the book's valuable themes, enough so that it rose slightly above the cartoonish movie it would have otherwise been. I still think Paul Verhooven could have made a much better movie had he had the courage to resist the mass appeal aim and focused on the book's commentaries more.

Cheers,

Ken

I would have to respectfully disagree. I felt the book was poorly written and explored some rather obvious themes in a very clumsy and heavy handed way. It was very shallow and was pretty much a vessel for Heinlein to shout his rather dubious political and moral views from a pulpit.

The film, whilst being a rather satisfying action romp, also was fairly critical of many of the themes that Heinlein championed, and from a personal point of view I found the film to be far more intellectually satisfying simply because many of Heinleins views I can never empathise or agree with.

As I mentioned above I find Joe Haldeman's "Forever War" a much more satisfying read, it is pretty much how I feel Starship troopers should have been. I understand Haldeman (a Vietnam veteran before he became a writer) was fairly critical of Starship Troopers and his own combat experiences coupled with a dislike of Heinleins text led him to write Forever War. If you haven't read it I couldn't recommend it enough.

Incidentally for anyone who hasn't seen Starship Troopers; ignore the second and third films. They are horrendously low budget affairs that have only a passing resemblance to the Paul Verhoeven film.

 

[Lionheart]

I think one thing has been lost from sight here. Avatar, like all commercial films, books, television shows, plays, and musical works, is designed to be a public entertainment that creates income for it's creators and producers. There is nothing wrong with this and deeper meesages and originality, while fine, are not required. At this it is a complete sucess. the Star Wars script has been mentioned as original but it is only a revamping of themes that occur over and over again in mythology and literature. All great and enduring non religious works began life as public entertainments. Shakespeare was trying to enrich himself not create great classical literature.It is the test of time and public opinion that establishes greatness, not philosophy or politics. my two cents

Well put Sir.

:ernae:



Bill

 

[MCDesigns]

I thought the story line was great and well done. I dont see how you guys think it didnt have a good story line. It filled in the history before the story was taking place, him and his dead brother, both marines, how he starts to fall in love with this alien, how his life is totally changing by being around these people.

It is quite similar to Dances with Wovles in that he learns their spoken language, the 'elder to be' is quite like the guy (indian brave) in DwW, the girl, the outcome, etc.

I thought the near end where the base is being escorted to ships, allowed to leave 'alive' was funny. I liked that part, lolol...

I also thought it was a good wakeup call for us as a race that might be on the edge of going off world. What if we find life out there and pull this stunt. That would be horrible. Look at what we have done to the ocean with garbage and debris, floating plastic masses out in the oceans. I think as a race we need to learn a few things like taking care of our environment instead of destroying it. Note how they were strip-mining that beautiful planet just for the magnetic mineral there. I am sure there are other worlds that have this element but they didnt want to look. They wanted that mineral 'there'.

This is why we have groups like greenpeace, to keep others from destroying parts of our world that could never be recovered....


Bill

I'm, with you Bill, while the story may not be all that original, mankind/corporations pulls this crap everywhere he goes, so it's not far feached to see this happen on a distant planet. I have Native American roots and based off of events with my great grandmothers family, I am a little biased. Personally, if I had been Jake I would have killed them all at the end, would have gave them more time till others came, not like they didn't deserve it.

Funny, I saw it 5 times on the big screen in 3D, once at IMAX and I bought the DVD when it was first released and have since watched it twice. The sense of being "in" the movie from the surreal, larger than life 3D experience isn't even close to being there with the 2D DVD version, which really kinda disappointed me, but was expected.

It's with tigisfat, for the sequel, less war and more immersion on the planet. When they showed the different areas the other Navi clans lived at, it really gave a good sense of how diverse Pandora was and I'd like to see more of it.

 

[FAC257]

I have to give a few kudos to our little local art school "The Ringling School Of Art" when it comes to some of these films.
http://www.ringling.edu/index.php?id=2127

There was an article several years ago that was talking about the quality of the CGI artiist coming out of that school a few years ago. I seemed to remember it saying something to the effect that most or a large portion of it's students are snatched up by the movie industry for work on major productions, even before they officially graduate.

School Notes:
-The Ringling Computer Animation Program has been ranked #1 in North America for two years in a row by 3D World Magazine.

-Ringling College alumni have worked on each of the top 10 highest-grossing animated films in history.

-Electronic Arts (EA) has guaranteed 10 internships to Ringling students every year.

-Ninety percent of Ringling alumni have a job in their field or are in graduate programs within six months of graduation.


Back in the 70's when ever I would drive by the campus, it always seemed to be the place the hippy kids went to school, because it was cooler than normal school.

FAC