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Icarus P38 as well?

Before this is closed by the Admin my user thoughts to this

1.)I like variety
2.)Since FS5 a lot of time has passed.Most of remarkable planes have been done
3.)I use FSX SP2 ACC now but I understand people stay in FS9
4.)I think looking to many forums threads FS world is not growing
5.)If this is true sales figures of payware products deminish and above all you have to make a FS9 and a FSX version(Probably 2 FSX versions SP1&ACC) which is an unbelievable job even if you have the Gmax model allready.I know about what I talk.I think the not growing world is even split in 50%FS9/50% FSX
6.)in order to capture this small(er) market products are rushed now.
7.) I like the AH P-38(portover) and will not invest in other P-38's
8.)I recently bought the JF/AH Connie which is good but in some details(panel !!/animations) a rushed out product.Still bought it as I have a soft spot for Connies

If my asumptions are correct in 3 years from now 1/2 of dev's will be history and we will be much poorer then

So we do not need DEV -control we need a "better" final product which sell out the not so good

In order to decide this I use development screenshots(the untextured ones) and especially VC shots.I would make it mandatory to define a FS situation(10000 feet over KLAX AI-traffic at 50 %) and state a VC FPS figure.

So in my very personal opinion I will not buy the upcoming F-105 as I have the Alpha one and I cannot see the BIG improvement

I will buy the Carenado Saratoga and send all of my others to pension

And I will continue in our freeware Starliner/Constellation team and try to talk Manfred into an FSX Connie what smokes them all(once we have finalized the remaining FS9 ones)

Sorry about any annoyment

Roland

Owner of 200 + payware planes

Starliner/Constellation team
 
Cerberus said:
... PRB recommended being the new Payware Coordination CZAR to prevent companies from creating duplicate aircraft. I find it ironic that some of the posters here think this is a good idea since they have already been starting their own projects full aware other companies are already working on the same type of aircraft. Why is it ok for company A to start a plane they are passionate about but they suddenly think a CZAR is needed to prevent companies like Icarus from doing the same?
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Should I not restore a 1969 Plymouth Roadrunner because other people already own them?
<o:p></o:p>
Like an FS airplane if I want to restore a 69 Roadrunner I might be able to do a lot of the work myself, but I still may need to raise money for a paint job or to have the engine rebuilt. Like any FS plane we also have to outsource for things like texture work, flight dynamics, and other technical aspects. These individuals like the mechanic expect a return, and money also needs to be made by the developer so that they can finance future projects, though I know very few if any people that get a decent return for the hours that they invest. That is why I refer to this as being more of a hobby and a passion. If I person is only driven by profit I can see where this hobbyist attitude would be upsetting...
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Actually, my post was less about a czar (which was a “tongue-in-cheek” comment, hence the final sentence “daydream over, back to work”, followed by the smily, meant to the indicate the humorousness with which the post was meant to be taken:)d :) :d)) and more about the curious conclusion that seems to have been reached by many payware companies about what sells, and perhaps more to the point, what doesn’t sell. It was actually stated by one payware outfit a while back that the reason they made (another) B-17G was that it was most likely to sell. This really surprised me. Are there really people out there who would not purchase a well made B-17E, but would purchase a similarly made B-17G? Really? You see, to me, if I was about to decide what my next payware plane was going to be, and I liked B-17s, and there was already two nice B-17Gs out there, I think I would build a B-17D and then come up with an interesting and effective way to sell it. In many ways, the history behind planes that were not so successful is more interesting than the multitudes of stories about the successful ones, by which time the war’s outcome was a foregone conclusion. If not more interesting, then at least as interesting, and I would bet $1.00 that a B-17D would sell just as well as the last well made B-17G, if it was marketed effectively and creatively.
<o:p> </o:p>
Just for the record though, as a strong believer in capitalism (i.e. freedom), I am opposed to a payware coordination czar of any sort. Payware companies (often times one dude) as free individuals, get to build and charge for whatever the heck they please. I just think they’re missing out on a great opportunity by building planes that are already out there. And since it's a P-38J we're talking about in this thread, and I really really like P-38s, I will probably purchase this one when it is released.
<o:p> </o:p>
So, my post was an attempt to make that point in a humorous sort of way. But then the thread got all serious like. Looking forward to the release of this P-38, and the P-38F model thay they will make later next year! :)
 
PRB said:
Actually, my post was less about a czar (which was a “tongue-in-cheek” comment, hence the final sentence “daydream over, back to work”, followed by the smily, meant to the indicate the humorousness with which the post was meant to be taken:)d :) :d)) and more about the curious conclusion that seems to have been reached by many payware companies about what sells, and perhaps more to the point, what doesn’t sell. It was actually stated by one payware outfit a while back that the reason they made (another) B-17G was that it was most likely to sell. This really surprised me. Are there really people out there who would not purchase a well made B-17E, but would purchase a similarly made B-17G? Really? You see, to me, if I was about to decide what my next payware plane was going to be, and I liked B-17s, and there was already two nice B-17Gs out there, I think I would build a B-17D and then come up with an interesting and effective way to sell it. In many ways, the history behind planes that were not so successful is more interesting than the multitudes of stories about the successful ones, by which time the war’s outcome was a foregone conclusion. If not more interesting, then at least as interesting, and I would bet $1.00 that a B-17D would sell just as well as the last well made B-17G, if it was marketed effectively and creatively.
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Just for the record though, as a strong believer in capitalism (i.e. freedom), I am opposed to a payware coordination czar of any sort. Payware companies (often times one dude) as free individuals, get to build and charge for whatever the heck they please. I just think they’re missing out on a great opportunity by building planes that are already out there. And since it's a P-38J we're talking about in this thread, and I really really like P-38s, I will probably purchase this one when it is released.
<o:p></o:p>
So, my post was an attempt to make that point in a humorous sort of way. But then the thread got all serious like. Looking forward to the release of this P-38, and the P-38F model thay they will make later next year! :)
Click to expand...

I actually thought your idea was a great one, I was more referencing others who thought it was an good idea, but who in the past have still started projects knowing another company already has one going. So even if you could put your good idea to use the lessons of history show that people would still disregard it and we would be in the same situation we are in now. So I don’t disagree with you in the least if it were possible.

A few years back we had been publicly displaying WIP images of an aircraft of ours for well over a year. Another Company had also been working on one but they kept it more under wraps more so than we did. They started showing theirs off a few months before we were ready to release. Everything was nice and friendly we did not see the kind of behavior we have seen lately. It was two companies passionate about an airplane wanting to create their own version. In the end we ended up talking to each other via Private Message doing our best to keep up good relations so that we would not create the same aircraft as each other again.

A CZAR wouldn’t have really helped in the situation with this other Company, since some companies are afraid to release WIP images because they fear someone will try to deliberately beat them to the punch. Instead in the case of this other Company two professional companies got in contact and made arrangements so that the same type of thing wouldn’t happen again. When there is respect and professionalism present lots can be accomplished. Two things the economic times and stress have been influencing negatively.

As for the B-17’s if you are referring to Pacos and A2A's. I know Paco was working on his B-17 for a very long time, possibly even longer than A2A and most certainly longer than their FSX version. Most companies don’t disclose what they are doing until a month or so before it is ready for release. Paco on the other hand had showed his progress for years. He was a single individual with a passion for the B-17 and he created a remarkable one. Just because a large company comes along and can create something in 4 months that took him years does not mean he should not release it.

I bring all of this up because it applies to Icarus, they are already working on their virtual cockpit, who knows if they had began work on their project before the other 2 companies working on P-38's did.
 
dcc said:
I just like P-38s :d

- dcc
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Lol we know, a few years ago many people wondered what was the point in anyone doing P-38's after you created such a nice and extensive collection and to top all of that off they were free. I really appreciate your contributions to the P-38s. Of anyone I can think of you have done the most to bring to life FS P-38's. When at least 3 different companies have looked to you to help them get the most out of their P-38's that really says a whole lot.
 
Lol I am really laughing here because of the example you give with the Bus. That does happen all the time. Perfect comparison.
 
doublefacepalm.jpg


-G-
 
The problem with the FS world, which is thankfully still pretty much what us Brits describe as being a "cottage industry", is that we are, whether we like it or not, small in numbers and not as large in income as we'd like.

We do have to select what we buy and, as has been pointed out in a number of ways recently, both humorous and otherwise, there is a major trade-off between what sells, what doesn't and what is made and what isn't.

Famous aircraft - like the P-38, P-51 and Spitfire for example - are always going to be numerous in terms of how many people make them. They're famous for a reason, which is that they are popular. If they're popular with a developer, then the developer will probably want to make one. Given that so many projects within the FS world are started and then seriously delayed or never finished (guilty as charged, m'lud), then you're also always going to get cross-overs between different developers making the same thing as well.

The question I'd ask is whether it actually matters? I've seen a lot of vociferous complaints recently about "another Mustang" or "another P-38". "Why didn't you make a XYZ P700 instead? We've never had one of those!" - the chances are you never will, either. I'll probably never get the Avro Anson I'd like. I'll certainly never get the other things I'd like to see, because the only person who'll make them is me and I have neither the skill, nor the time to develop that skill, to make them.

I quite like the idea of a "registry" or "clearing house", but it'll never happen for a number of reasons. The first I can think of is that, as I said before, a lot of projects are either delayed or never finished. If someone says they're doing every WW2 military aircraft in history - thus blocking others from doing them in the ultimate theory - then users end up with nothing when the projects get delayed or just never appear.

The second I can think of is that as we've seen, a number of the developers in this hobby can be quite competitive... Competition is part of human nature and not having it tends to be a bad thing.

I guess the ultimate point of this long ramble is that we're always going to get competing models of the same aircraft or similar aircraft. Icarus, just as an example, posted a while ago that his models that already have direct competitors in the marketplace tend to be his best sellers.

There's no real point in complaining or getting into (CENSORED) matches. Just ask if they can make your favourite one next instead. You never know, you might discover that they like it too...

subliminalmessageAvroAnsonsubliminalmessageAvroAnsonsubliminalmessageends. :engel016: :icon_lol:
 
Icarus, just as an example, posted a while ago that his models that already have direct competitors in the marketplace tend to be his best sellers.
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i wrote that models that exist also in the freeware version sell more...this worked in the fs2004 era.....actually i don't have models on competition with others....only the dragon rapide exist also in the freeware version...i never say that i sell more if the aircrafts are builded also by other payware companies.

actually i start what i want to build in that moment...if exist or don't exist in free or payware version is my last thought. seeing a project start, seeing his progress and building all the parts is the more interesting thing i can do...especially compared with my old boring office job i had

p.s. i will start also a p47 nextly and probably a spitfire or fockewulf 58 or dornier 24...because i like them
 
icarus said:
actually i start what i want to build in that moment...if exist or don't exist in free or payware version is my last thought. seeing a project start, seeing his progress and building all the parts is the more interesting thing i can do...especially compared with my old boring office job i had

p.s. i will start also a p47 nextly and probably a spitfire or fockewulf 58 or dornier 24...because i like them
Click to expand...
That's the way to do it. Please yourself and please others
H:applause:
 
Henry said:
That's the way to do it. Please yourself and please others
H:applause:
Click to expand...

Agreed wholeheartedly - and for the purposes I was referring to, Icarus, freeware is very much "the marketplace". I was just saying that another product, free or commercial, is out there competing against the one a developer is creating.
 
Piglet said:
Maybe I'll make a P-38!:wavey:
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I was just thinking the same thing... maybe I'll dust off my FS2004 P-38 line and update them for FSX :d (not!) LOL the Mrs. would disown me if I did!

Jesse, thanks for the kind words. Lateral-G, that pic is great, it's now posted in my office at work!

- dcc
 
icarus said:
i wrote that models that exist also in the freeware version sell more...this worked in the fs2004 era.....actually i don't have models on competition with others....only the dragon rapide exist also in the freeware version...i never say that i sell more if the aircrafts are builded also by other payware companies.

actually i start what i want to build in that moment...if exist or don't exist in free or payware version is my last thought. seeing a project start, seeing his progress and building all the parts is the more interesting thing i can do...especially compared with my old boring office job i had

p.s. i will start also a p47 nextly and probably a spitfire or fockewulf 58 or dornier 24...because i like them
Click to expand...

I am on the Fw-58 waiting list seriously
and I would pay a lot for a Focke Wulf Ta 154 Mosquito

ta154-1.jpg


Roland
 
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