Is there an engine sound guru in the forum ?

F

fleurdelys

Charter Member
This topic relates to twin or more engines which grace our beloved planes and the way that the start and startup sequence react when you start the engines using Ctrl + E... :kilroy:

I find that the first engine to go (lefty being number 1 and the first to cough into action) generally has not had the time to finish clearing its throat before number 2 gets moving... (roughly a 2 seconds delay) ! I figure that if the engines are using some power to start with, it must be draining it fast if the regenerating process has not the time to build up again for engine number 2. I seem to remember seeing a little wartime movie which definitely showed the pilot making sure that the engine was fully started before attempting to start the second, third, etc.

Question :
1. Is it possible to extend this delay or is it fixed "à jamais" by the program ?
2. If it is possible, where should I be looking to fix the delay to a 7 or 8 seconds headstart ?
3. Is there something in the aircraft cfg or the air file which could be brought to play to lenghten this delay ?

Before hitting the "trash can" or "eject" button of this tread, think about all those very nice sounds which you find so good when you fly an airplane and go to the sound section to have a look (or rather lend an ear) at your start and startup sounds. Take the time to listen to them and you'll notice that you're being deprived of at least 60% of their sequence and harmonics just because MS decided that the starting sequence of your plane should not last too long...

Am I making sense or have i been subjected to too much exhaust fumes while trying to fix this "bug" ...:kilroy:

Fleurdelys
 
you could press E then 1 to select engine 1, then hit ctrl+e to start it, let it get to power then press E then 2 to select engine 2 and start that one, etc... then to get moving straight you hit E then 1 then 2 (etc..) to select all engines and get taxiing...
 
Hi Smoothie,

I had tried that option along other avenues (that's where I inhaled most of my exhaust fumes) and it's a no go...
The left engine which I select does start and, is then followed by the right one, without having to select it. And it doesn't even slow the process by a milisecond... :kilroy:

Engine selection seems to work if you're trying to feather one engine and you can then select that one and the other one will keep working...
It doesn't work on startup, unfortunately...

Thanks for the idea, anyway...

Fleurdelys
 
If you go into your
'assignments menu", keyboards commands can be setup to select engines 1,2,3, or 4. If I remember right, these assignment are left blank by default. Maybe I'm wrong. You may wish to check.
Select one. Start it. Select two, start that. Hit the key combo to select all engines....thottle control returns to all.

Engine failure in flight, or want to practice a single engine approach, you'll need these commands setup if you wish to islolate and feather a bad engine, then return controls to the good mill.

Check your keyboard control assignments, see if they're setup right.
 
Bonjour Magoo,

I've just finished trying the setup that you suggested and this is the result:

There are two options available which will either provoke an engine failure or shut up/open the gas valve, the idea being that the engine will stop when deprived of fuel...
In each case, the right engine (#2) will stop working or feather if it is set up to handle feathering.

After various tries, the right engine starts right after the left, as usual, but stops short of running properly and dies when I apply either command (after about 3 secs. running), whether I initiated such command before startup or right after startup but prior to the right engine starting its sequence.

So, it is still "no joy" but I do like the possibility of cutting off the engines at will to simulate a bad start or battle damage when combined with the smoke effect, etc. without having to go through the full sequence of choosing an engine and then shutting it down...

Just a thought which might be worth investigating :
I was wondering if someone might know whether the sound cfg. which contains various parameters could tell us if such parameters might have a command which would regulate the duration of a sound and by way of consequence, the time that the sim allows to such a sound or combination of sounds effects...

I'm referring to the following example :
rparams=0.000000,0.715000,0.627000,1.097000
vparams=0.000000,0.000000,0.264000,0.000000,0.590000,1.500000,0.866000,0.000000,0.998000,0.000000,0.998000,0.000000,0.998000,0.000000,0.998000,0.000000

What do these series of digits refer to in particular ?

Thanks again James for your help in this matter.

Cheers,

Fleurdelys
 
admittedly, I am one of the Ctrl+E, start and go guys.
isn't there a more realistic start sequence?
I recall hearing srgalahad mentioning it.
that might be the way.
 
I mght have the wrong end of the stick but if you want a more realistic start up sequence then why don't you do it manually? When I'm flying aircraft like the WOP B-17 I set up the aircraft for start using the period flight manuals and crank 'em up with the start buttons in the cockpit. That then gives you the chance to check the systems are running smooth before moving on to the next engine.
 
The following lines from a sound file:

rparams=0.000000,0.715000,0.627000,1.097000
vparams=0.000000,0.000000,0.264000,0.000000,0.590000,1.500000,0.866000,0.000000,0.998000,0.000000,0. 998000,0.000000,0.998000,0.000000,0.998000,0.00000 0

do not have any effect on how the sim handled engine starts. Those lines deal with the rate at which the sound files are played and the volume at which the sound files are played. There is nothing in a sound pack that dictates how quickly engines are starter or in what order they are started.

The only way I now to start multiple engines in a realistic manner (meaning one engine is started and running fully before the next begins cranking over) is to plop some starter buttons/switches on the 2D or VC panels (or on a pop up window even) and start each engine manually. Using the CTRL E combo gives the sim control over that engine starts and it is always done wrong. I have seen this same thing in CFS2, CFS3 and FS9....it's just how the sim handles multiple engine starts.

OBIO
 
Thanks Clark123 and Obio for your suggestion of starting from inside the plane but my preferences are more vusual and I wouldn't want to miss the excitement of looking at all the smoke and flames that a radial will throw when it starts to move...

The best seat for that is "outside"...

Sitting inside the plane, I could probably look at a small screen that is available (showing a view of the outside) but it is rather small and not so hot in the end. It's just about as useful as putting a plaster on an amputated limb...:isadizzy:

There must be a way; there has to be something in the programming that could be changed, no ?

Thanks again for your help,

Fleurdelys
 
See if the plane in question has a pop-up window with the engine starters. Stick it in a corner outside and shrink it down a bit.
 
A small pop up window with an Engine Control Unit for throttle, mixture and prop pitch control and a set of starter buttons for each engine is your best route to be able to be outside of the aircraft and start the engines manually. The pop up could be a small box that fits in the corner or a long low bar along the top or bottom of the screen. Set throttles to zero, full mixture, hit the start button on engine one...it cranks over and fires up. Once it is running repeat the process for each of the remaining engines.

OBIO
 
Hi Pete,

I went to Calclassic at your suggestion and found the "Topic: If only we could have startups like this..." on page 7 of the Classic Chat...

They do wish for the same as I do and give a lot of You Tube links for very smoky startups that would be ideal in sim world but the only workable suggestion gets me back inside the cockpit and the need for a setup which is not used often unless in payware planes...
There is a reference to Accusim by A2A Simulations which is only used on 3 of their packages...

It would seem that this is akin to a quest for the Holy Graal and the only reference which comes to mind and could be appropriate at this time would be to talk to Merlin into doing something useful with his magic wand...

Thanks for the help,

Fleurdelys

 
Bonjour Pete,

Thank you for taking the time to search further into this topic.

I went to your link and do find that this is more like it as far as the results (it was beta at the time) are concerned. I tried downloading the CC_engine_control.zip file that was made to achieve this result but the link is dead. Seems that it was also dead at that time but they probably got around that between themselves by PM (?)...

I also tried to e-mail TGibson directly but can't seem to remove the first "T" from his address...

Will try again later...

The way which seems to be favored and showed promises according to their topic exchanges is through a gauge, it seems...
Is that what is called an "XML" file ???

Maybe a gauge Guru could help us out further in this area... ? (hint)... :kilroy:

Cheers,

Fleurdelys
 
:jump: I knew it ! I knew that I had seen such an effect somewhere ... :jump:
But I just couldn't put my finger on it, however hard I tried and with all the planes that I have accumulated over the years... :kilroy:

The good news is as mentioned and the fact that it is made with the use of an xml file as I had anticipated above. It is linked to the fuel supply availability to achieve a slow down in the startup sequence...

The bad news is that this marvel comes with a payware plane which only has one engine, with gauges of different names than mine and that it is probably boobytrapped with copyright anti-personel mines from start to finish...

But you should have seen this slowly revolving prop trying to find enough of whatever it takes to make it spin and then, when it did, start revolving in earnest with sound and smoke to booth... :jump:

Oh well ! That was a nice try in the right direction... :frown: ... :crybaby:

Cheers,

Fleurdelys
 
Hi,

The bad news is that this marvel comes with a payware plane which only has one engine, with gauges of different names than mine and that it is probably boobytrapped with copyright anti-personel mines from start to finish...
Click to expand...

By curiosity ... what is this payware plane with the infamous gauge ? :)
 
as I said earlier,
I am a Ctrl+E and go type.
it's a pity really,
I've been lazy and am missing out.
that said, I find it hard to believe
that one can not manually start.
here's what I just did to correct it;
go to Options, Controls, Assignments
scroll down to Starter 1 on/off
Change Assignment... to Ctrl+Shift+1, OK
scroll down to Starter 2 on/off
Change Assignment... to Ctrl+Shift+2, OK
if you want to start 4 engines,
continue the sequence.
then OK out and back to the flight line.
select a multi engine aircraft.
set the parking brake
(if you don't, you may ground loop)
if the engines are running,
set the engines to idle
press Ctrl+Shift+ F1 (Mixture idle cutoff) to shut them down.

now for the fun part;
press Ctrl+Shift+1.....
does engine 1 turn over,
but quit when you release?
DANG IT!!! no fuel
press Ctrl+Shift+F4 (Mixture rich)
and press Ctrl+Shift+1
if she doesn't keep running,
hold it a little longer.
run her up and back it off.
press Ctrl+Shift+2
and so on.

don't forget to adjust you mixture

I hope this works for you,
it does for me.
 
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