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Is This The End?

One thing for sure, time will certainly tell how things are going to go in regards to which sim's survive and which ones bite the dust in this niche and somewhat fragile market. In the end, the telling benchmark will be which developers (out of the current groups) buy into the up and coming platforms as time and information on them progresses. If/when that move is made, the market will be driven more by open ended development (as it has been) than anything else. Pay to Play (pardon the pun) simply won't fly (if the former in fact ends up becoming cemented reality).

The market as a whole has certainly gone through some incredible changes and forward leaps in quality since I first got into simming back in the 90's (which I did to augment my actual flight training at the time). For me it's going to be interesting to see where things go as my retirement from simming is all but imminent in the not too distant future as my time is going to be largely consumed in a couple of new ventures I'm heavily involved with and in those plans, I'm returning to RW flying after a long absence.

Fingers crossed!
 
The thing is, just because something new and awesome comes along, it doesn't mean the old stuff will stop working. So even if AeroFly FS 2, P3D, or FSW start really getting momentum and support for the now-ancient FSX wanes, it doesn't mean your FSX investment will go away. Even if you start to build up a new sim, you can keep FSX around. Adding storage is cheap nowadays.

I kept FS9 around for years after FSX came out because I had a cool install and lots of neat stuff that sadly never made it to FSX. (Like that classic project with all of the 50s airliners and airports.) But eventually, I moved to a new PC and the FS9 stuff just felt too dated to go through the install again. (Still, I just deleted my FS9 downloads folder last month. : )

I have XP11, P3D, FSW, and AeroFly FS2 all set up on my sim rig now. (P3D doubles for FSX, as there's no FSX stuff that doesn't work in P3D that I found vital.) One may eventually win more of my time, but given the base sims cost only as much as many of you guys will spend on a high-end add-on, there's no reason not to at least try the new stuff. Even if you focus on one sim, there's still fun to be had in the others. (Like VFR flying in VR in AFS2, which is freaking amazing, even if P3D is my main platform right now.)

I'm just super-pleased to have a choice! I really hope that the market supports these sims enough to keep them going and in further development.
 
Interesting discussion but an important topic. I have been involved in flight simulation both as a hobby and as a teaching tool since the first arrived with micro-computers back in the 1990's. WE forget that the original simulator came about as solution to a problem, how to create visually on a computer screen moving objects in more that one apparent dimension (X+Y+Z). MS came to dominate because they were good at two things; they gobbled up any competitors but more importantly they used the sim as a tool to sell computers and Microsoft Windows, it was a fun add-on for your customers to play around with a bit like solitaire. They also had a crack at the gamer market via CFS, Train Simulators etc but eventually gave that away as well. To my mind the last incarnation Flight was an attempt to steer buyers into the pay as you go model, ala Apple and Itunes. But we also ignore two very other important things that happened. The first was mobile phones or hand held PC's and Laptops, both made serious inroads into the traditional PC or Tower Box. MS has also had to deal with the reality that Java and HTML revolutionised information processing and sharing via the WWW. Google stole everybody's lunch there.

Now, if you look at the two current updated and properly coded sim programs, they are targeted at different markets, P3D is a viable platform because it is being bolted into the world of defence training and simulation otherwise Lockheed Martin would not have bothered, they are probably subsidising it but they will get the return via integrated training and software platforms on military hardware and software. X-Plane is a serious software outcome but they have moved in a different direction providing a tool and system that aeronautical engineers and students can use to design and test ideas, which is why it is well supported across engineering faculties world wide. In the mean time PC gaming and game programs have exploded and are very very popular and good money makers, ala World of War Craft, Pokemon etc. Now lets all remember the elephant in the room, GOOGLE. Google have combined their amazing planetary coverage in pictures (pixels) in real world images, maps etc with the basics of a flight simulator and that includes the 3D object changes needed to give a solid or 3D appearance. Try the Google application you will be amazed because it offers a combined realism with the power of GOOGLE computing to give you the best scenery ever (its real). Now will there be a way to integrate or use simulator models such as FSX or X-Plane in the Google sim? Maybe maybe not but they are not going away.

From my perspective I am stuck with the hardware and software environment I currently have (a HP Tower and Win 7) but I have no interest in buying a new PC, why? because everyone else in this household uses an I-Phone or Android or I-PAD for their computing and entertainment needs, so I have no need for a new PC. Grandchildren can connect to the internet via the TV or Plasma screen and play very very complex and graphically amazing games that way. And lastly despite a life time in the aviation industry nobody in my family near or far has any interest in aviation what so ever, zilch, other than who has the cheapest ticket to wherever. I saw the same thing happen for real in aviation as the market vanished, light aircraft vanished and the major hull manufacturers consolidated down to a couple, in other words the Golden Age of Aviation is over as well. I have boxes full of disks of long gone flight simulator programs but at least FSX got to the stage where the graphics are great, the models are great and I can with a little work add in models from the past that I know will never be recreated in the future. I can probably keep that going for ten years plus by which stage I will be sufficiently aged to probably not be able to find the PC let alone see it (LOL). What I want is a new paradigm not just an improvement and only GOOGLE at the moment offers that tantalising prospect, they have the money, do they have the interest?

Now I am a serious simulator user and it is FSX-A. I see no benefit to me to move to P3D but I may consider X-Plane, maybe, as for DTG well good on them but they will find the market is not what they think so unless they can attract gamers it will be game over for them too. But and here is the big but, if I could use the current simulator models I have with Google Sim or there was a way to integrate into that system I would be into it like a shot, why because it makes obsolete scenery design, weather engines etc and the only thing it needs is a good user interface aka a sim model to really explore virtual reality.
 
End?

As I was thinking about this discussion I took a look at the list of "outdated" simulators on this Forum. Many have current discussions going on. Is this the end? Given the evidence right here, I doubt it.
 
Exactly. Although there are potential issues with re-activation of FSX DVD installations, no-one is losing anything. It's the beginning of a new phase which people can choose to move forward into or not, it certainly is the end of anything.

Ian P.
 
P3D v4 ?... well... :

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Ha, ha !... Are they kidding ?... I'll stick with FSX DX10 for at least 2 years...
Based on videos alone, FSW "wins" by far for me... but still ^^^
 
LM has clearly stated they are not going to change anything regarding payware/freeware addon access in their P3Dv4 announcement and already, the major developers are offering both free and low fee upgrades to existing P3D users when v4 comes out (or shortly following release). I hope DTG is paying attention.
 
You all crack me up....we went thru this with CFS2 back in the 2007 time frame when it was apparent that Aces was gone and there would be no more CFS series.... CFS2 is still one of the biggest forums here.
 
Reply...

You all crack me up....we went thru this with CFS2 back in the 2007 time frame when it was apparent that Aces was gone and there would be no more CFS series.... CFS2 is still one of the biggest forums here.

Crashaz,

That's just because we're stubborn SOBs who don't know how to quit. :costumed-smiley-034
 
Heck I remember the stubbornness exhibited when FSX came out and so resource hungry...the arguments continue LOL!
Ted
 
As mentioned in another thread (Flight Sim World), I had messaged with Aimee Sanjari just yesterday about FSX-SE support. They are NOT going to drop FSX-SE period! NC

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Any 64 bit sim will require 64 bit .dlls. Which means that developers have to update their gauges and modules for their add-ons to work. Which on the other hand also means that stuff made by retired/out of business devs can not be used in FSW and P3Dv4.

So don't ask about EULAs, dig up your address book and ask devs if they can at least update their .dlls.
 
Just to add to Bjoern's statement above, it's worth remembering that any gauge coded in C++ (as oppose to XML) is also a .dll - so they'll need recoding, too, not just things that have ".dll" on the end!

Ian P.
 
Any 64 bit sim will require 64 bit .dlls. Which means that developers have to update their gauges and modules for their add-ons to work. Which on the other hand also means that stuff made by retired/out of business devs can not be used in FSW and P3Dv4.
While that will work for P3Dv4, FSW not so much...

...since FSW has apparently dropped support for all C/C++ gauge .dll's. :pop4:
 
FSW a no go for me!

After reading a post in Pete Dowson's FSUIPC forum I can categorically say that when the time comes for me to abandon FSX, it will be a move to P3D x64.

There is absolutely NO way I will move to DTG FSW. The post I read referred to a DTG twitch broadcast in which they said they will NOT entertain the use of FSUIPC and the likes and that everything that interfaces with FSW must use simconnect.

That is a deal breaker for me as I have hundreds of hours invested in customization of my FSX install using FSUIPC4 and lua scripts.
An just on an emotional level, I resent any provider of any service that blocks control or customization by the user.

The DTG twitch broadcast is here

Paul
 
A. P3D v4 is offered as a completed sim. It is what it is.
If you like it, you buy it.
But the "core" sim experience is no different from P3Dv3 or FSX.
Even the improved performance due to 64bits doesn't seem to be
optimized yet, from what I read for a finished product.

On the other hand, FSW is an open beta, still in development & progress
with a community channel opened for criticism and discussion for
forming up the final product, tailored to the community wishes (in the
degree that this can be achieved since it's FSX based).
But already, FSW comes with a refreshing experience and feel of something
"new" just out of the "box" compared to P3D :
- Far better modeled default (legacy) planes out of the box
- Enhanced virtual environment (ORBX)
- Enhanced flight model (Accufeel)
- Rain - bad weather flying
So, the "core" sim experience seems somewhat changed, improved and refreshing to me
compared to P3Dv4.

B. On another note, many people have criticised the marketing model of DTG,
that we don't actually know about that yet. Two points here :
- FSW world costs 20$ while P3D v4 costs ?...
- Why buy now P3D v4 and not P3D v5 after 8 months or so ?... Or even better,
why not buy P3D V6 after 1.5 year ?...
I mean LM's marketing model seems no better to me. At least, FSW will be just
one and only sim (I guess).

In conclusion, potential & future is with DTG (as opposed of a sim under development
compared to a finished product) and it's totally up to them how this bet will turn out in favor for them or not.
 
I resent any provider of any service that blocks control or customization by the user.

I don't think that's what is happening, it seems more like a technical decision to formalise the use of the legitimate API. We might speculate that the confusion of back-door interfacing methods is one the things that has made FSX so unreliable, so I don't think we should write this off as anything sinister. From what I have read Pete has said he will not develop a new FSUIPC from scratch, not that he has been denied the opportunity. I too will miss the powerful Lua scripting but that's probably all. Other vendors are building tools to interface to FSW. SPAD.neXt is reportedly in beta, for example, and with the exception of the Lua engine (so far) it is shaping up to be a powerful FSUIPC stand-in.
 
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