It's really not about the money!

[Gibbage]

I think it's more the fact that you're speaking of your own work...

I can ONLY speak of my own work. I feel a developer speaking of other people's work is not cool, but I did mention Aerosoft's amazing PBY.

*Edited to make things a little more clear. I just feel that since im a developer, I cant really speak about other developers products, positivly or negitivly, since there is a conflict of interest. I also dont have any other developers work (Other then the Aerosoft PBY) so I really CANT talk about them. If you think I dont complament others work though, your dead wrong. Read the Fw-190 threads and youll find me glowing about that product.

 

[IanP]

There's nothing "uncool" about stating that others work, in addition to your own, is of a higher standard than would be available if, as certain people would prefer, no charge could be made for it.

I can only speak of others' work, as mine is not of a standard that I would even consider the possibility of charging for, but I know how much work goes into it, how much cost is involved in developing it and that it simply wouldn't be possible as freeware.

The reason I dismiss any similarity between this and any other game I know of is that every other software title I know of that has the same extent of additional content available to the end user invariably has that functionality available at additional cost. That's a long sentence. Time for me to go to bed I think.

Night all! (Although it's actually half past morning now...)

 

[Bjoern]

Not talking about the tools... although 3D MAX does allow for a lot more... freeware developers work @ their own pace... when they have time... when other world things going well.. when it is a work of love... sometimes never gets finished.

I was thinking more in the lines of "go out there and do it yourself".

No. I'm not. You are when you say that other games only come with free add-ons, for exactly the reason you stated.

I can't remember stating that.

Your arguments for why everything should be free are based on the false premise that it is possible to do the amount people do, to the complexity that people do, for free. It doesn't matter how much you want it to be so, it isn't.

I still think that it is possible. Not in the relatively short timeframe that payware provides though, but it is still doable.

I could model an aircraft that is much more detailed than anything out there, way more realistic than anything Accusim can simulate and easy on the frames. It won't be finished in a year though.

Edited to add: On the other hand, I disagree with those charging for sceneries and missions that only involve default objects and techniques. If you want to charge, you have to add new content, not just use what other people have created, in my opinion. But that is only my opinion and others' clearly differ.

Charging for default objects should be punished.

 

[IanP]

I could model an aircraft that is much more detailed than anything out there, way more realistic than anything Accusim can simulate and easy on the frames. It won't be finished in a year though.

So where is it then? The entire community is waiting.

Seriously, I'm not actually asking that... I am sitting here thinking that you have just made the point exactly, though. This community - most game/sim communities - don't want to be waiting years between add-ons.

 

[Bjoern]

So where is it then? The entire community is waiting.

I wouldn't charge for it, so happy waiting. :d

Seriously, I'm not actually asking that... I am sitting here thinking that you have just made the point exactly, though. This community - most game/sim communities - don't want to be waiting years between add-ons.

That and the clients mostly have their credit cards sitting very loosely in their wallets.

 

[IanP]

You're never going to shift your viewpoint, Bjoern, so this conversation has ended. You keep using only freeware, almost everyone else will keep paying for better.

Each to their own. Enjoy!

 

[Bjoern]

You're never going to shift your viewpoint, Bjoern, so this conversation has ended. You keep using only freeware, almost everyone else will keep paying for better.

Each to their own. Enjoy!

Kind of figured that as well.

Cheers Ian.

 

[Baron von Blutwurst]

Lionheart told me before I started doing the WWI stuff that I should be happy making enough for groceries every 6 months or so,He is absolutely correct!....Sure the Idea of quality Freeware is great....but....I spend over $400 on research material and blue-prints alone...might get that back....my time is of no consequence. I have a real job and the higher ups don't think my time is worth the money either...lol

as for add-ons for Half-Life and ArmA and the rest of that Ilk.....I am willing to bet they dont spend 18 hours a day for 6 months writing specialized XML code just to please the player...We modelers in this community do in fact have to do that....Then you can add on the 8 weeks of texture mapping and painting just so we can offer a Paintkit,(for Free) that you guys can whip off any paint in 2 hours with. By the way as a graphic artist,(and I do consider doing this as Graphic Arts),I charge $75/hour. and I get it. I spend far more time doing the Flight sim stuff than I ever thought I would and have the newly graying hair to prove it.

This whole concept of "Pay What You Want" is ridiculous. The SIM community should be thankful that Bill,Kevin,Lionheart to name a few charge as little as they do for the quality work they produce.

 

[Tweek]

Can see both sides of the arguement really. If you're going to start going into PMFG/Accusim levels of detail, then ultimately, it's going to cost you to create it, so, naturally, you'd at least want something in return to cover those costs (research materials, trips to visit real aircraft, etc).

However, that's based on the assumption that everything nowadays has to be to some incredible standard of detail. I, and I'm sure a lot of people, are more than happy with a decent external model, with the latest FSX bells and whistles, and a VC that doesn't look like it's made of lego. For any moderately experienced modeller/texture artist, that should be the easy part. The likes of Tim Conrad, Dave Garwood, Thomas Ruth and others have shown us that this is more than possible, so there's no reason freeware shouldn't continue to thrive, and I'm a bit surprised, although the situation has improved, that more freeware developers haven't been churning stuff out for FSX.

 

[crashaz]

I can only speak from the scenery building side of things.

I believe people were intimidated by the tools. I think the freeware developer is starting to look more closely at the toolkit now and are jumping in.

Thanks to those freeware developers who build tools to make the SDK more friendly for others to use.

Arno Gerretson, Luis-Feliz Tirado, Richard Ludowise, John Masterson and many others have made it soooo much easier to build freeware sceneries for FSX now.

So as good as we can create now... could a freeware developer put together something to match the quality of Orbx?

Of course not.... this is where money makes it roll.