It's up!

[kelticheart]

Hi Stef,

I'm not sure if I understand the attitude gauge. Do you need bitmaps for the Salmoiraghi-Sperry attitude gauge?

If yes, they should be in MVD3d's cab files from his Fs9 package.
Or is it something different....

Dave

Hi Dave,

I know about the bitmaps included in MVG3d's original pack, but I don't know if they'll fit. The Salmoiraghi-Sperry picture I attached seems to me extremely similar to the CFS1 Hurri attitude, so I modified the original bitmap to make it look like the Salmoiraghi-Sperry. It's the one displayed in the 2d Veltro panel I attached.

Try the attached zip and you'll see what I mean. What I am asking for is a comment about whether I am on the right track or not. Not always adapting other bitmaps result in an accurate gauge, I want something that works first and then looks good......

Cheers!
Stef

 

[gaucho_59]

Some constructive comments...

Kelti,

Please do not take offense... as I NEVER do when you correct my mistakes...but... being that you strive so much for the "greatest historical accuracy"...(i.e.: eliminated the handle in the Alpha Oldie panel because there was not one in the real plane) I am afraid there are a number of inaccuracies here... as well as curiously placed items...that need changes...

1. This gauge, is suspended in midair between two differen levels... the outer border of the panel (closer to the eye) and the surface of the "cruscotto" itself (lower in depth)... it should be placed lower to be believable...[also in the real plane the altimeter next to it is on a case screwed onto the panel main surface)

2. These 3 bezels, again, suspended in mid-air... like the ones in nr. 5

3. This bezel is partly over a screw and over the edge of the panel extra plate??? also an impossible position

4. This one is the same...

5. As per nr. 2 comment...

6. The gunsight is nothing like the S. Giorgio (which I have made available to anyone and quite photo accurate..and, by the way, it is perhaps too big for the size of the cockpit and instruments...

Perhaps, just perhaps, the number of instruments in the panel exceed the original number... and that is why they end up looking "too crowded"...

I hope you don't get defensive and do take this as constructive criticism to achieve your aim for "historical accuracy" in all you do... which is my intention...

If you want to use any of my creations.... they are available for your use...

Cheers,
G.

 

[gaucho_59]

Salmoiraghi-Sperry Attitude gauge

Here is an example of what can be done with the GAUBMP2 program and PSP...

The first one is a dummy gauge to "dress up a panel" and the second is what the bmp part of the .gau gauge would look like :

The "dress up" file has to be added to a panel construction without the grey background (from a layered PSP or PSD file) and
just a little drop shadow to give some sense of volume over the panel plane... (rather than something just "glued in")

If interested... I offer my services to do the manipulating of any gauge for better looks...
or post a detailed step-by-step process so anyone can do it from scratch...

Cheers,
G.

 

[mvg3d]

Hi Gaucho,
The Sperry-Salmoiraghi AH was always mounted from the back of the panel, the ONLY visible things were the quadrant and the four screws, so the AH on Stefano's panel is showed correctly, may be less "shiny" than Your one, but is absolutely real.
Our hobby is the Flight Simulation, trying to replicate in the best way the real combat/flying situations and a real panel isn't a flipper with coloured lights.
Please don't make NEW gauges if You don't know the original one ! Really You are a great Paintshop/Photoshop artist, but the REAL gauges many times are different.
We (Stefano "PCMeneg" Meneghini and me) spent a lot of time doing an hard job researching for the original documentation in order to obtain REAL Italian gauges......

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

Carlos,

Those look great. Definitely a work of a master.

A few questions on your technique.

How do you do the gloss effect on the gauge face? Is it a series of layers?

It really gives the faces depth. I'd love to see how you did it.


Manuelle,

So the cockpits were made at the factory with each gauge in mind. Instead of a hole cut in and a guage added later. Would that be correct. If thats true then what Carlos has made is basiclly a gauge that the ground crew could have added in at a later time.

If you guys are able to follow what I'm talking about, then it would be good to have both versions for later panel builds.

How many Italian aircraft use that guage?

 

[gaucho_59]

Caro Manuele,

I used the jpg purportedly of the aforesaid gauge... to show what can be done with it..
and I just improved on it...

At any rate... my comment on the inaccuracy of placement stands... they are really not done well...
they are just hanging in the air...

As to the panel... here is a photo.. purportedly of a Veltro... that shows a gauge
mounted over the panel and not from the back... and a pull handle that is on the other side... of the Alpha Oldie...
The gunsight does not look anything like the S. Giorgio at all...

go figure...

I don't fancy myself an expert on anything, except perhaps on the use of painting programs and a bit of artistry...
if I have a photo... no matter how blurred... I think I can do a fair job at rendering a good reproduction...
The photo of the Veltro might, again, be incorrectly labeled...
Maybe we are talking about two different panels... My comments were on the Alpha Oldie shown in the post...
I don't want to ruffle any feathers... please...

ciao, ciao
Carlos

Bloodl_Hawk23,
The technique is simple.. working in layers... you use a layer for the glass... and play with the transparency... I usually start with a
circle filled with the solid color... make it very transparent (looking through the layers over the dial)... Then, add layers one at a time... for cockpit braces mirroring on the reflection (then make it barely visible), then shines and light spots.. etc. when I am happy with the results... I fuse all the glass layers into one.. of the proper luminescence, transparency, etc. so the dial shows through... if you are interested, I can do a step by step tutorial in my regular thread... let me know...
Thanks for the words of encouragement...

Carlos

Manuele,

I think I know now what you are referring to... thought you meant the panel made by Kelti...
As far as the gauge you are talking about... the face is correct... and since the bmp is made from a layered file,
one can use only the circular bezel layer.. and forget about that plate...
I think we both jumped the gun... you not knowing the intricacies of the design of the file (layers)... and I thinking you were talking about another post... At any rate... The artwork is definitely better than that pic (in Kelti's post) and DOES NOT have to be used with the flat plate with four screws...

G.

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

Carlos,

I would be most interested.


Here is a pic I found of the gauge in question.

http://axis.classicwings.com/Italy/images/MC205-Aermacchi-cockpit.jpg

Sorry thats the best pic I could find quickly.

It is in the upper left. I believe the one in the lower right is the guage Manuelle is referring too. So we are talking about two different guages it seems. It looks like the upper left is the Airspeed and the lower right is attitude indicator. Is that correct? Or am I not following correctly?

 

[bearcat241]

...DJ, I did not touch the damage boxes in IS4G's original dp, did you adjust them better for this model by any chance? If yes, can you send me a copy of your work to include in the upcoming full conversion pack of Manuele's M.C.205?

Done and done

 

[gaucho_59]

Looking good... and

you should have included that jpg in your post...
Looking at your picture reference... and the photo I got... and the descriptions by Manuele et al...
it seems as though the cockpit layout and instruments were by no means too
frigging standard... in this blessed plane!
Zealous defenders of "historical accuracy" in modeling remind me of the 4 blind men
describing the animal they were touching (an elephant)... one went by the touch of
the ears, the other by the feet, the other the tail.. the other the tusks...
ending up with such wildly different descriptions of what the animal must look like... lol

I think sometimes folks get carried away and do not see the forest for the trees...

Notwithstanding... I still feel that however accurate the disposition of gauges, camos, etc. is,
sight should not be lost of things like instruments hanging in the air... etc. because one
might end up with something pedantic and inaccurate with respect to reality... (perspective,
parallax errors, etc.)...

G.

P.S.: I am working on a quick description of my "transparent glass" technique... check for it in my
thread... I don't want to be criticized for hijacking this thread... Cheers

 

[gaucho_59]

On second thought... some might find it useful here...

Dear Blood_Hawk23


I changed my mind and figured that this post might be found useful here too...

G.

So, here it is, quick and dirty, how it is done...

p.s.: if you have specific questions... shoot anytime...

 

[Worthless]

Got a couple of Questions!

Number 1...gauge00=ITA_AP, 6,4,51,106
This gauge is listed under [Window03] of "panel.BP" for the Veltro, but it doesn't show in FF or QC. The other four gauges are all there, just no AP.

Number 2....more a curiosity than anything else....can someone explain why gauges with a _0001, _0002 and _0003 suffix generate in the gauge file. I'd never noticed it before but I started a brand new MTO and so far have loaded only two new AC to it, so I know exactly what gauges I've added.

 

[bearcat241]

ITA_AP was omitted from the package for some reason, maybe an oversight. I just swapped the entry with a similar German AP gauge. As for the _0001, _0002 and _0003 suffixes, these are just temp gauges generated autonomously by the sim engine, the same way it generates CDP files for damage profiles it accesses when you load a model or object. The parent gauges from which they are generated are often FS98 or FS2000 derivations. I've never seen these types of temps from native CFS2 or CFS1 gauges. Even though they function just like their parent gauges, they are safe to delete. But i've seen some designers in the past use these temp gauges in their panel work , which is a serious offense because these temp files are often deleted with a batch file (on my rig at least) to keep the gauges folder clean. So i may end up deleting a vital component inadvertently.

 

[Worthless]

Thanks bearcat241!
Answers both questions nicely. I did as you suggested and ripped an identical AP gauge (English version) out of the B24_Liberator OH by B24 Guy/Allen. Popped it into the Veltro panel.BP, and it works fine. Problem solved.

 

[kelticheart]

My weekend homework

Number 1...gauge00=ITA_AP, 6,4,51,106
This gauge is listed under [Window03] of "panel.BP" for the Veltro, but it doesn't show in FF or QC. The other four gauges are all there, just no AP.

Number 2....more a curiosity than anything else....can someone explain why gauges with a _0001, _0002 and _0003 suffix generate in the gauge file. I'd never noticed it before but I started a brand new MTO and so far have loaded only two new AC to it, so I know exactly what gauges I've added.

Worthless, I apologise.

I did my best to keep everything under control, but my anxiety to keep up with the promised deadline got the best of me. I evidently forgot to include the AP gauge in the pack. It's just a copy of the common PBJ_AP.gau with the bitmap translated in Italian. You can see it in the pictures I included in the 2d panel User's manual

I am going to attach it here tomorrow and make sure it will be in the big MVG3d conversion pack.

I am attaching my Salmoiraghi-Sperry attitude gauge work I completed over the weekend. Comments welcome.

Cheers!
Stef

 

[kelticheart]

Salmoiraghi-Sperry attitude gauge

Hi everybody!

Attached images of the new Salmoiraghi-Sperry in Beepee's Veltro 2d panel (30 degs. bank to the right) and VC (level flight). All that I have left to do is the blue background.

Let me remind you Beepee's work is the main 2d panel for this conversion package, the Alphasim Oldies Veltro panel I added is only an alternative for those who, like me, like 2d panels with wide external views, hence the need to place gauges in places that are, obviously, not that historical.

The "official" 2d panel and VC are Beepee's, as shown below.

WORTHLESS:

Attached the translated AP gauge I left out from the Gorrini's memorial package.

Cheers!
Stef

 

[Worthless]

Ahhh, may thanks Kelti. I dropped it into my Panel.cfg and it works like a charm.
Curiously however the new Salmoiraghi-Sperry attitude gauge you uploaded doesn't show in my 2d. I created a new text line in the Panel.cfg and used the same location/size suffix as your original gauge, but it just isn't showing.

 

[kelticheart]

I did it!

Ahhh, may thanks Kelti. I dropped it into my Panel.cfg and it works like a charm.
Curiously however the new Salmoiraghi-Sperry attitude gauge you uploaded doesn't show in my 2d. I created a new text line in the Panel.cfg and used the same location/size suffix as your original gauge, but it just isn't showing.

Hi Worthless,

I am attaching a *.zip that contains all of the latest gauge improvements, including the related panel.cfg for both Beepee's primary 2d/VC panel and the alternative Alphaoldies' modified 2d. In the Alpha folder you will also find the 2d btimap with all of my latest changes.
Just go in and install the two new gauges in your \GAUGE folder and replace the old panel.cfg foer either 2d panel you are using.

Naturally, all of this new material will be included in the announced full conversion pack of MVG3d's Macchi-Castoldi 205 Veltro.

After sweating bullets and finding the most devious ways to circumvent all obstacles the pc threw at me, last night I succeeded in completing the Salmoiraghi-Sperry artificial horizon with the original blue background from MVG3d's M.C.205 pack and modifying the orientation of the speed numbers in Beepee's ASI imitating the style of the original Italian gauge....
Let me add Salmoiraghi, now called "Salmoiraghi & Viganò", is still in business limiting its production to eyeglasses and precision lenses. Part of the multi-national group is Bausch & Lomb, world-wide famous designer and producer of its Ray-Ban sunglasses.

Attached below:

• shots of the two new gauges
• enlarged view of the two new gauges (the last one is the ASI example sent to me by Chalachew that I used as reference)
• the *.zip file I talked about above.

WIP report: now that I completed the set of Italian gauges all I have to do is developing correct flight models for the other three Veltro models included in MVG3d's original pack, the Early Production (EP) and the hybrid (H1 &H2).
All of these three models are lighter than the Late Production for the following reasons:

1. the EP 205 retained the same armament of the latest M.C. 202, two cowl-mounted 12.7mm and two 7.7mm wing mounted Breda-Safat machine guns;
2. the "hybrid" got this denomination from the fact that they were M.C. 202 salvaged airframes, brought up to M.C. 205 standards by the co-belligerant Regia Aeronautica technical teams. This huge effort was carried out to provide enough aircraft for Regia Aeronautica to operate in the Balcans by the side of the Allied air forces. The armament was, again, the same of the late M.C. 202 productions described above.

In the EP case, lighter weapons and ammo reduced weight significantly, compared to the MG151 Mauser cannon-armed M.C.205V; in the "hybrid" case the lighter construction of the M.C. 202 airframes contributed to reduce weight even further.
Their Flight Models must reflect this lighter weights accordingly.

Cheers!
Stef/KH

 

[dvslats]

Congratulations Stef! The gauges look great.

Having done several for a convert, I can understand some of the grief you probably encountered.

Cheerz, Dave

 

[kelticheart]

Congratulations Stef! The gauges look great.

Having done several for a convert, I can understand some of the grief you probably encountered.

Cheerz, Dave

Thank you Dave!

My main problem is that I am not an expert in using photo touchup/graphic/painting applications! Besides some of the original MVG3d bitmaps were not compatible with the stock CFS1 Hurricane attitude I used. Some of them had a higher resolution or were slightly smaller or slightly bigger. The GAUbmp.exe utility I use accepted the modified bitmaps with no problems, only to show an empty spot, when not worse, where the new gauge should have been.
In a couple of instances the gauge resulted so corrupted that I had instant CTD's as soon as I selected the Veltro in Free Flight, when I went in to check the results of my work!

I had to compare the old with the new, discover all differences and modify accordingly....all needles in haystacks! This is why it's taking this long to complete and upload MVG3d's M.C.205 full conversion pack.

Although the Salmoiraghi-Sperry attitude works and looks extremely close to the historical one, there's still a bug I could not cure. The blue background, fading to a lighter hue towards the top of the gauge, is very pretty and matches the real one.
Unfortunately, the Hurricane attitude gauge has a sort of "continous" behavior that shows the bottom darker colour on the top when the aircraft elevation pitch is very steep and, viceversa, shows the lighter colour at the bottom when the dive angle is very steep.
Of course I tried modifying other attitude gauges that I have collected over the years, none of them works as the Salmoiraghi-Sperry except the Hurricane which matches it 100%, apart from this background colour problem.

For the sake of authenticity I can live with it.
For anyone who's disturbed by this glitch, I have ready a version of this gauge where the background color is a solid light blue, which resolves completely the issue, albeit not historically correct.

A message to everybody:

let me know if you want this second version of the Salmoiraghi-Sperry attitude gauge included in the pack, that I expect to be ready by this coming Monday.

Cheers!
Stef/KH

 

[Worthless]

These gauges look fine to me. Thanks again for all the hard work. I am enjoying flying the Veltro.