JHS_Italy_revised airfields by Achim27619!

[achim27619]

Ramitelli airfield

Stefano,

just to make me understand correctly: Do you want me to move Ramitelli to the location shown on the map provided? That is no problem. If you want Ramitelli to look as discribed as a provisional dirt airfield with a steel mats covered runway I have to make a new one. But even that is not a big problem. Give me a couple of days and you have it. Just say so.

Sorry for that mistake. When I made the first Ramitelli I took the information from the 417 airfields and never checked.

Cheers

Achim

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Achim,

Please keep me in the loop on this...because moving that airfield alone will force a complete re-do of the fourth Tuskegee campaign - I'll have to revamp and re-time no less than 38 of 106 Tuskegee missions.

 

[achim27619]

Ramitelli move

Andrew,

sorry, I didn't think of that. Moving and/or remaking Ramitelli is no valid option.

Stefano,

how about making an additional airfield in that place naming it slghtly different??????

Cheers


Achim

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

name it Termoli or Madna. unless you have them. You could name it Ramitelli N.

Kelti,
If you want help with Google earth let me know. I still have everything from my KMZ project for Korea.

 

[UncleTgt]

Stefano (or anyone else that wants to give it a try), this table of bitmap = landclass equivalents might be useful

Thank you for your suggestions UncleTgt!

I haven't got EZ Landclass, where can I find it?

Cheers!
KH

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Andrew,

sorry, I didn't think of that. Moving and/or remaking Ramitelli is no valid option.

Stefano,

how about making an additional airfield in that place naming it slghtly different??????

Cheers

Achim

Achim,

Sorry...I took advantage of yet another snow day to run errands during the afternoon and pick up my car from the repair shop.

1) Yes, you can re-name the "current" Ramitelli in the airbase.dat file to whatever town that airfield is closest to, and keep the .bgl files and bitmap the way they are. (Unless you can find a way to rename them without changing the base itself)

2) Then you can crate the "historically correct" Ramitelli, and name that airfield Ramitelli in the airbase.dat file. Kind of a weird work-around, but that could work.

3) Unless Lee Lesher is willing to re-do those 38 missions, we'll just have to live with the missions being flown of the "historically incorrect" Ramitelli.

Think of this the same way way that the Manston / Ramsgate issue was solved in Britain. Ramsgate is where the "historical" Manston is located, because Manston in CFS 1 was accidentally placed in the airbase.dat with the longitude set at "West" instead of "East," hence its mislocation.

 

[achim27619]

Ramit??????

Hi Stefano,

here is your airfield. You just have to christen it..........

Cheers


Achim

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Achim,

That would be "Ramitelli"...and Stefano (Kelti) usually logs in during the week, so expect a reply from him on Monday. It looks outstanding!

 

[Blood_Hawk23]

That does look outstanding.

Achim,

At some point I need to sit down with you and learn how to do that. those roads and paths look amazing. thats how I want my WWI aerodromes to look.

 

[kelticheart]

I apologise

Achim,

the quickness you responded to my "alarm" call about Ramitelli historical location puts me to shame. You, as all of us, must have other real life priorities to attend to, instead of responding to another hobbyist (is this word correct?) request.

I fully agree with Rami's and BH's comments about the new airfield, it looks gorgeous and I believe also the runway orientation reflects the historical one, running almost parallel to the shoreline.

I also did not think how much hassle moving Ramitelli would have caused among the mission/campaign designers, where waypoints, fuel consumption and other vital components of mission building come into play. The entire Tuskegee campaign would have to be rewritten because the 332nd F.G. moved to Ramitelli from Napoli-Capodichino at the beginning of 1944 and remained there since the end of WWII. (data taken from official Tuskegee website here: http://tuskegeeairmen.org/wp-content/uploads/112-Victories.pdf)

In order to assign a name to the new scenery which would not conflict with the "old" Ramitelli, let me do a little further research about Ramitelli, both on Wikipedia and Google satellite maps of the area. Unfortunately, I never travelled through that part of the country, otherwise I would have had better info. I already have in mind something that would serve both the purpose of avoiding scenery conflict, yet ensure that, whoever downloads your Italian scenery, will know this is the true Ramitelli location.

My idea is naming it after a small village nearby called "Torre di Ramitelli" (Ramitelli's Tower). It probably was the reason why the 332nd FG home base received its name.

But let me confirm it with a little further research. As Rami pointed out, I log in during the weekly free time at my office, since I have here the leisure of a lightning-fast wide band connection. My boss knows about my extra connection and has no problem with it, as web usage fees are paid by the company flat rate, no matter that we use it or not or how much we use it. Him and I have the agreement that he doesn't care how I manage my time, as long as my deadlines are met. I never missed one in almost fifteen months of job attendance. I'll do a some extra time at the office today and by tomorrow we will officially assign a name to the new scenery (thanks again, Achim!).

Moreover: since I caused this headache, I hereby volunteer to do the gls work of populating the new airbase with hangars, barracks revetments and such, relieving you from the responsibility to do it.

For as much as your scenery looks nice, we must remember Ramitelli was a temporary wartime airbase. It did not exist before the Allied built it, so it must have that sparse, "thrown together in a hurry" look typical of frontline advanced airfields as, for example the first strips built in Normandy or in the Pacific as soon as the Allied conquered the area. The picture above looks way too overbuilt, in my opinion.
A medium-sized, corrugated metal hangar plus a small one, (two of the stock ones repainted in ETO textures by Capt. Kurt, for example), just a few Canion's small brick houses, lots of tents, crates and oil barrels abandoned around should give that temporary, interim look Ramitelli must have had back then and it can actually be seen from the rare WWII footage here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMX7UhidKIY
(see also parts 2, 3 and 4)

In fact, I have another suggestion: Ramitelli strip was paved with Marsten steel matting, another "temporary look" detail. Instead of laying a matting object on it, which would affect negatively the scenery fps performance, can you paint it directly in your scenery texture as it's done in several PTO stock strips? Below attached a shot showing a Tuskegee post-combat conversation on the matting.

Just mail to me the usual three necessary files to install the scenery in my CFS2, I'll drop any other project and start working on this one immediately.


Cheers!
Stef

 

[kelticheart]

...latest info

Achim,

check this, VERY IMPORTANT:

http://www.ronaldv.nl/abandoned/airf...ampobasso.html

in the above link there are coordinates (Ramitelli: 41°54'08"N 015°07'03"E) and other info of the three Allied airports, part of the Foggia Airfield complex, Canne, Madna and Ramitelli. From this web page modern aerial I think I'll be able to locate on Google Satellite the exact location for Ramitelli.

Plus, another two recce pictures below, showing the exact shape of Ramitelli first and the three strips, left to right of Canne, Madna and Ramitelli. See, I was wrong, Ramitelli does not follow the shoreline, but it's oriented roughly 355 degrees. The third shots shows the primitive, muddy life conditions in front of a Nissen hut at Ramitelli.

The exact dates for the 332nd F.G. permanence at Ramitelli are June 1944 - May 1945.

Canne and Madna could be an idea for another little project?

Cheers!
Stef

 

[kelticheart]

...moreover...

...this is what I got by entering the coordinates for Ramitelli in Google Satellite search field.

The red arrow pinpoints latitude and longitude location. In the last zoom I did, the almost ghost-like shape of the WWII airfield is clearly visible. The runway can be seen almost entirely, while the top part shows both taxiways. Even some of the dispersal areas attached to both taxiways can be seen.

I also found this link, which seems to be an extremely interesting one not only for Italy, but for the entire Europe:

http://www.forgottenairfields.com/italy/

Achim, let me know if you need more info or what I found so far will suffice. I definitely suggest to call the new CFS2 scenery Torre di Ramitelli from a nearby archaeological area.



Cheers!
Stef

 

[achim27619]

Ramitelli and others

Stefano,

it would have been nice to have this information some days earlier. But I don't want to cry over spilled milk. Here is my suggestion: I make the scenery for the three airfields, send those to you and you do the gsl-work (if that it alright with you). If I can paint in the steel mats I really don't know but I try (that is qiute a challenge).
But that will take me a couple of days so be patient.


Andrew,

we still have the problem with the old Ramitelli. Would it be possible just to change the name wihtout blowing the campaign to pieces?? We don't want to have two Ramitellis in Italy, do we.

Cheers

Achim

 

[kelticheart]

Wunderbar!

Hi Achim,

Andrew,

we still have the problem with the old Ramitelli. Would it be possible just to change the name wihtout blowing the campaign to pieces??

why not call it "Torre di Ramitelli" as I suggested above? This name is real, no fiction. There's a small village + archaeological site nearby called as such. Besides, this name will remind everybody that it is the historical airfield.

Stefano, it would have been nice to have this information some days earlier....

Achim, it only took me typing "Ramitelli" in Google search field to get the airfields info (I mean the "Forgotten airports" website) and "Tuskegee" afterwards, to get the first map I posted here, pictures and more historical information.

I do it at work, and I cannot use too much of my work time to roam around in Internet, even if my boss trusts I get my job done no matter what!

In a couple of minutes you would have gotten the same information, and it's 99% written in English. Google translater can take care of the remaining 1% in Italian.

....If I can paint in the steel mats I really don't know but I try (that is qiute a challenge).

You don' have to do them from scratch! A couple of years ago, Shessi posted here new textures for the stock CFS2 strips. I am sure he would not object about copying his steel mat textures, much better sized than the stock ones which look huge, right Shessi?
Another one who repainted the Marsten mats is Psullykeys. Psully's textures must be in SOH library somewhere.
Since you decided to do all three airfields, let me check which one, between Madna and Canne, was covered with the matting together with Ramitelli.

....I make the scenery for the three airfields, send those to you and you do the gsl-work (if that it alright with you)...

Fine, I offered to do it already! I will follow your correct choice of keeping the object count as low as possible, but I will use better looking objects than the strictly stock ones, Canion's finer and better scaled radio antennas, and his brick houses, for example. Did you see the operation and briefing building picture, now almost in ruins, at Ramitelli in the "Forgotten Airfields" website? Canion library has a couple of them almost identical to the real one!

....But that will take me a couple of days so be patient....

We all waited for as long as it takes to do the scenery right up until now. Believe me, if I were good with painting tools, I would share the burden with you, but I am not and I would screw things up instead of helping.
Like, for example, your new Ghedi scenery. You see, that airport is a complex made by Ghedi, still military, airport and nearby Montichiari civilian airport. There are taxiways joining the two complexes and, in WWII, they were both there and both military. Montichiari, originally an unpaved secondary runway for Ghedi, was converted to civilian use only after WWII, becoming the official airport for the city of Brescia, which lays ten minutes away. The old Ghedi-Montichiari GZR scenery reflects the entire complex, but not being GSL-ized, it's a frame hog and its buildings look way too modern for a WWII Italian airport. I couldn't wait to replace it!

If I were good with paintbrushes, I would add Montichiari to your Ghedi. I wish I were....I am much better at noticing fine details and adding a sort of "eye-candy" touch to a scenery.

I think it does not matter how long it takes, as long as it is done right.

Lots of care has been taken to build new finely detailed aircrafts by many people, others built photo-real weapons and paylods, Rami, Talon and others profuse intense labour into searching historical data to build campaigns that are actual re-enactments of what happened in WWII, Mask Raider built Pacific airbases that can be compared perfectly with pictures taken during the period....

Why not applying the same care to European Theatre sceneries? I rest my case.....

Cheers!
Stef

 

[kelticheart]

Steel matting

Ok Achim,

I just viewed the Imperial War Museum, Spitfire RAF footage posted at the Forgotten Airports website here:

http://www.ronaldv.nl/abandoned/airfields/it/molise/campobasso.html

Go to "CANNE" airport and watch the film yourself. Shortly after the beginning the camera operator films a landing from the cockpit.

Canne runway paved with steel matting is clearly visible. This settles the matter for Canne: Marsten matting here as well.

On to search info for Madna.

Cheers!
Stef

 

[kelticheart]

Madna

Achim,

I could not locate better info about Madna other than, once again, from the great "Forgotten Airports" website.

According to this,

http://www.forgottenairfields.com/italy/molise/campobasso/madna-s555.html

From what I understood, Madna was built in October-November 1943 (A MONTH!) together with Canne, Ramitelli, Biferno and Nuova.

I think we can make an educated guess by assuming that all of them, given the unbelievably short construction time, were paved with steel matting.

This technique was used all over the world, tested in the Pacific first and then North Africa, Italy and Normandy. A piece of land was flattened by bulldozers first, then fine levelled with graders and pressed to withstand the weight of landing aircrafts. Finally, paved with Marsten matting sections welded together.

If you can come up with an easy way to reproduce a steel matting texture, do all three of them.

Cheers!
Stef

 

[bub]

Kelti,
If you look in psullykeys downloads, there should be some steelmat replacement runway textures. I think this is what you're looking for.
Bub

 

[Rami]

Reply...

Achim,

I won't blow the campaign to pieces, but Kelti's suggestion about the same seems appropriate to me. I'm sorry about not responding earlier; I was unable to log into SOH for a period of about twenty-four hours.

 

[achim27619]

Names

Ok Gentlemen,

the matter of the names seems to be settled: the old Ramitelli remains Ramitelli and the new one will be Torre di Ramitelli if I am not mistaken.

Cheers

Achim

 

[kelticheart]

Kelti,
If you look in psullykeys downloads, there should be some steelmat replacement runway textures. I think this is what you're looking for.
Bub

Thanks, Bub! That's exactly what I meant, Shessi did some work on those textures as well. Did you see the picture Achim? Those would be perfect for the sceneries you are working on, besides, if I am not mistaken, any addon using stock textures helps keeping the sim framerate down.

...the matter of the names seems to be settled: the old Ramitelli remains Ramitelli and the new one will be Torre di Ramitelli if I am not mistaken.

Yes, Achim. No mistaking, I think it's the best compromise. Thank you!

UncleTgt:

Sorry, I never thanked you for the table of bitmap = landclass equivalents you attached to this thread, which I duly downloaded. I looked at it and I think I understood how it can be put to use.

As soon as I am done helping Achim with the gsl work for these new sceneries, I'll get back into my attempt to correct Italy landclass. If I find myself sinking into a quagmire, may I shout for help in your direction?

Thank you!
Stef