Joysticks and Throttles

L

Larry1918

Guest
I have finally decided to upgrade my controls and want to get a HOTAS joystick, throttle and rudder pedals. As far as I can tell the only really serious ones out are the Thrustmaster Cougar HOTAS stick, throttle and Elite rudder pedals, OR the CH HOTAS Fighter stick, throttle and pedals. I love to have any comments on these two or any other suggestions from the hardcores:cost1: on this forum.
 
There alot of pedals out there, C&H, Saitek,Simped

My question is when's the last time you seen a WWI aicraft with a HOTAS ?

The C & H pedals are the most robust, but some folks find the pedals themselves a bit too close to each other
 
If money doesn't matter I recommend the Simped Pedals. Bought mine in 1998 and they still are as good as on the first day. They are very precise, sensors do not wear out because they are contact-less (Hall sensors) and have a non-linear characteristic curve just like a real rudder on a plane. The newer ones can be switched also to a linear characteristic curve though. I had the old CH pedals from 1993 to 1998 and they were nowhere near the Simpeds. Also the feet movement with the Simpeds is like the real thing.

Being a Thrustmaster fan since I bought my first stick and throttle in 1996 I have replaced it this year with the HOTAS Cougar. The HOTAS setup is very handy as similar functions can be programmed on the same buttons for each flight simulation. But Thrustmaster vs. Saitek is a philosophy thing I would say. I never owned a Saitek but I think both are a great addition for gaming.

And Gimpy, when was the last time you have seen a W.W.I aircraft with an LCD monitor (or CRT) instead of a windscreen in front of your :banghead: And ... who says he is flying W.W.I only?


Cheers
 
Gremlin_WoH said:
And Gimpy, when was the last time you have seen a W.W.I aircraft with an LCD monitor (or CRT) instead of a windscreen in front of your :banghead: And ... who says he is flying W.W.I only?
Cheers
Click to expand...

Please to read my joystick commentary, in OFF Tips & Cheats #5, I think you'll find me a Force Feedback NUT. My reasoning is stated there

Personal opinion: Saitek Cyclone EVO Force Feedback Stick

Saiteck now makes a throttle Quadrent

Saitek Pedals :ernae:
 
I use saitek stick an throttle while I also have a ch throttle you need a degree in software engineering to get the most out of it. It does have a superior mini joystick on it thou,however the ch throttle does have a stright forward and backward axis...translation it slides around on yer desk whilst the saitek throttle has suction cups on it keeping it firmly set, buttons on ch throttle are a little better too imho.I also use ch peddles an they are nice cant comment on saiteks peddles as i have not tried them although they do look nice.
 
The throttle that comes as std equip on the EVO leaves alot to be desired as to placement. Just found out today that Saitek makes a throttle seperate, looks liike a toy in the picture, but I couldn't see $108 for the C+H. So I've been using the keyboard.

To keep your C+H in one place, they make a self adhesive velcro 2" wide, that you can pickup in Home Depot. It's like a 4 foot roll for $8
Good Stuff
I used it to stop my pedals from sliding on a ceramic tile floor

For all you Sopwith Camel pilots out there, you can make a rather servicable BLIP Switch by reprogramming F10 & F11 to 10% Throttle & 100% Throttle. If you wish to discover it's use, watch the video, pay attention to his engine as he attempts a landing in a crosswind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtprTL66-FY

OH . .By the way . .crosswind landings will be in Phase 3 :ernae:
 
gimpyguy said:
My question is when's the last time you seen a WWI aicraft with a HOTAS ?

/QUOTE]

Have a look at the cockpits of WW1 planes

Nearly every one had a form of HOTAS. "Hands on throttle and stick"!!

Most have a throttle lever on the left ( like a HOTAS ) and most have a aileron /elevator stick- like a HOTAS. They have a firing button.

OK- They don't have a plethora of buttons like a HOTAS, but you don't have to use them. Naturally you use them for sim controls ( as opposed to the aircraft controls ) - so,really, a HOTAS in simming is more authentic than say a MSFFB stick or any other make of that type.

Getting back to the question, as a Cougar owner I have realized that Vista may not be the friendliest OS for it. New drivers have come out, whereas its "native" driver is for XP. And if you want to fully use James Hallow's magnificent Foxy software, then XP is the OS to use.
(which is why my next 'puter will have XP )

I don't know the position with CH in this regard. It doesn't wear as much as a Cougar.
The Saitek X52 has hall sensors, i understand, and this may be the best bang for buck HOTAS system.
Certainly it's the latest.

But if you want the BEST controller for WW1 and WW2 then look at this

http://www.simcontrol.co.uk/offboard.htm
SPITFIRE SIMULATION SIMULATOR

That, with a Cougar throttle is what I'm lucky enough to have - and it's great!
Click to expand...
 
Firstly: This may come as a bit of a shock to you, but the entire World is NOT British. And of those that are, very few can afford, or have the space for, or are willing to risk divorce, just to own their very special Spitfire Simulator.

Just soaring along in your SE5, with your X-52 Hotas. You best put your undivided attention into what you're doing, because your only indication, that your machine gun is firing is it's sound. In reality your whole aircraft would vibrate. More so with an SE5, but it would be noticable with your Spitfire.

Perfection ( elusive thing that ) would be an X-52 With FORCE FEEDBACK.

Because without ammunition, the Royal Flying Corps is just an expensive flying club :ernae:
 
Rudders and pedals.

Wow,,,,just looked at the spitfire setup.....

does it come with a fan and scarf???
 
I've found that when they don't List the price, there are only 3 possibilities:
1) they haven't decided yet

2) they can't add that high

3) Don't ask :costumes::costumes::costumes:
 
gimpyguy said:
Firstly: This may come as a bit of a shock to you, but the entire World is NOT British. And of those that are, very few can afford, or have the space for, or are willing to risk divorce, just to own their very special Spitfire Simulator.

:
Click to expand...

Ah, come on Gimpy, ain't it really? I always considered you colonials as still belonging to us, you know -lol

No, I wasn't saying others should have the stick, just that it is the best for WW1 and WW2 and that i was lucky enough to own one.
And i do realize that most folks have more important priorities, families etc.
But
I've finished my work, I don't drink in clubs or pubs, etc or have chase the sun holidays etc etc.
I may make another 15 years if luck stays with me. And I figure you can't take it with you, so I've indulged myself. -lol ( Actually I got the cut down version, hence the Cougar throttle used with it. )

Some of us don't overly rate the FFb- Some folks do, some don't. It's a personal preference, of course.
But with my hotas I sure know when I'm firing the guns(s) And I'm sure a ButtKicker ( look it up ) would help there if i wasn't satisfied.
Trouble is my neighbour - I live in a semi detached house ( a British phenomenon :) ) - would go potty with that or a FFB stick.
I once had one and I had a mate round . I left him playing the sim while I went downstairs to make a cuppa. Well, when he fired the gun the noise/vibration downstairs was unbelievable. I reckoned i owed it to the neighbour to cut the FFB and also use headphones.
Life's easier that way.

cheers
 
Fortiesboy said:
Ah, come on Gimpy, ain't it really? I always considered you colonials as still belonging to us, you know -lol
cheers
Click to expand...

One would think that after the boys in the red jackets got their butts kicked out of New York that would be enough.

But it wasn't, they tried again, 50 years later, outside of New Orleans

If not having the intelligence to know when you've been beaten, you definately win the trophy for stubborness.

On a lighter note, I never bought a buttkicker when it became available, as I was not impressed. In that I'm in a wheelchair, and it just wouldn't work.

Funny Story: Roughly 10 years ago, I owned a co-op in NYC with about 20 other folks. I HAD a solid state A/B switch, 'A' was just my headphones, 'B' was my Sound System w/ 200W Sub-Woofer. I had a driving game which featured a twin-turbo porsche that shook the floors when it ran. So it was 2am and I couldn't sleep, so I played the driving game, on the headphones so as not to disturb the building.

Well, you guessed it, the A/B switch went bad, and I never knew it. My first indication of anything being amiss, was the NYFD Busting Down My Front Door with a Battering Ram, and 6 Firemen in my living room.

I still own the Driving Game, and the Headphones, but that A/B is History :costumes:
 
Larry1918 said:
I have finally decided to upgrade my controls and want to get a HOTAS joystick, throttle and rudder pedals. As far as I can tell the only really serious ones out are the Thrustmaster Cougar HOTAS stick, throttle and Elite rudder pedals, OR the CH HOTAS Fighter stick, throttle and pedals. I love to have any comments on these two or any other suggestions from the hardcores:cost1: on this forum.
Click to expand...

Stay as far far away from the Thrustmaster Cougar. I have one and it's a complete piece of junk. Switches and buttons that didn't work right out of the box, the gimble became sloppy after a couple of weeks of use. Now all these things can be fixed if your willing after paying $300.00 for the stick and throttle to spend between $300.00 and $500.00 for after market parts to make the stick what it should have been in the first place.
I've been a flight sim junkie since Air Warriors and the original Red Baron and I used to fly unbelieveable amount of time online in Warbirds and Aces High and the best HOTAS system I ever had was the CH products. Easy to program and virtually indistructable. I got rid of my last one when I upgraded to Windows XP. Mine was a game port version and Windows XP didn't allow programing through the game port. For a long time I had a duel boot set up on my computer just for programing my CH Fighter Stick and Throttle. I bought the Thrustmaster after accidently stumbling across one in the computer store back when they were impossible to find. I really wish I had gone back to CH Products to get their system. I will admit that my TM rudder pedels have worked like a charm for years. I can't comment on the CH Products rudder pedals having never used them.

Scott
 
Hey guys, thanks for the suggestions and info:applause:. I have followed up on these and looked on line. One comment I keep coming across concerning the Saitek products is that they are a bit flimsy. Is that a valid comment or just some people being picky?
 
joystick

I've had my Saitek x45 for at least 5 years, and had the x36 before that.

All the axis are still stiff, but I did have to put a little piece of cardboard between the fire button and the actual switch it engaged, and also had to replace the torsion spring that centered the rudder when you released it.

Have never used ch or anyting else, so cant compare it to anything....all I can tell you is that for me it has all the buttons/rotory/hats to do everything I need to do.

If i ever get a new stick, it will be another saitek
 
Hello,
my first js was a CH, but this was ages ago, and you don't get them in Germany easily. I currently use a 4-year-old Saitek Cyborg FFB, even without spring - the forces to center the stick spring-like are generated by the electric motors. I am using this thing almost daily, and there's nothing broken, or flimsy with it.
I would say CH is top notch, if you are willing to pay a lot, and if you can get your hands on one in your country.
If you want a cheap reliable one i would vote for the new evoforce Saitek.
Greetings,
Catfish
 
ftgc said:
Stay as far far away from the Thrustmaster Cougar. I have one and it's a complete piece of junk. Switches and buttons that didn't work right out of the box, the gimble became sloppy after a couple of weeks of use. Now all these things can be fixed if your willing after paying $300.00 for the stick and throttle to spend between $300.00 and $500.00 for after market parts to make the stick what it should have been in the first place.
Click to expand...

Yes, this is a valid point. Although i've never used Ch HOTAS, they do have a much better reputation than Cougar for being built better and not wearing. Knowing what I now know, if I were in your position, I would choose CH over Cougar.
(Mind you, the software for the Cougar is immense and brilliant )

I have used Saitek X45 - and it is good. Not as sturdy feeling, but accurate,
The X52 would be a good HOTAS to get. It has non contact sensors, so shouldn't wear. And the software, if you want to use it, is almost as comprehensive as the Cougar.
You don't have to learn the software, you can just programme buttons to it- BUT check on this with VISTA OS. My mate is having difficulty with this and he is using Vista- Perhaps anyone here using th X52 and Vista could comment on how they find it?

Eh, Gimpy - Come on, you can forgive the British now, after all it's been a long time.....:)
 
Larry1918 said:
Hey guys, thanks for the suggestions and info:applause:. I have followed up on these and looked on line. One comment I keep coming across concerning the Saitek products is that they are a bit flimsy. Is that a valid comment or just some people being picky?
Click to expand...

It all depends on How Forcefull they're used, Sittingduck voices over 5 years for an X-45. My logitech 3D Pro, became limp as a wet noodle, after 6 months yet NIO swears by one. I've heard of ST-290's with bent triggers. My MSFFB Sidewinder II, I used it for 7 years, it was a spare soo I loaned to a friend, two weeks later it was busted. Remind me to never loan anything else, to that animal. Presently I'm flying a Saitek EVO FFB. .2 years no problems. Just that the base Does get HOT, I keep mine on the desk, it's yet to yell Ouch ! Must wear pants if you're keep it on your lap :kilroy:
 
I'd agree with Sittingduck on this one. My last Saitek lasted about 2 years, but it was a bottom shelf model. It ended up having the same problem SDs had with the trigger malfunctioning. Just be conscious of how hard your squeezing it in a hot dogfight and all is good. My current stick is also a Saitek, the Aviator. Also a bottom shelfer, but its got alot of nice little gadgets and toggles. My next one will probably be the same except a more pricey model (which is still pretty cheap). For the price Saiteks are good sticks.

-Rooster
 
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