Just a darn minute, ETO guys!

Hi Guys,

Hi Nigel, based on your info above I have made the following changes to the Seafire MkIIc

E type armament
2x .50 cal mg (removed .303 and added in .50 cal)
2 x 20mm cannon.
(Theres only two gun nodes on each wing, so only two muzzle flashes appear in game one for the cannon and one for the 50 cal on each side, its not a B wing model ei 3 muzzle flashes per side in game, does this mean the slimmer cannon blisters are correct??)

<GunStations>
<GunStation UpLimit="0" DownLimit="0" LeftLimit="0" RightLimit="0" RateLimit="0" SystemID="left_cannon" Tracer="40" Trainable="0" Trigger="0" Type="avhistory_gb_gun_hispano_mk2" Name="Left Cannon" ConvergeDistance="300" Pitch=".1489" MaxAmmo="60"/>
<GunStation UpLimit="0" DownLimit="0" LeftLimit="0" RightLimit="0" RateLimit="0" SystemID="right_cannon" Tracer="40" Trainable="0" Trigger="0" Type="avhistory_gb_gun_hispano_mk2" Name="Right Cannon" ConvergeDistance="300" Pitch=".1489" MaxAmmo="60"/>
<GunStation UpLimit="0" DownLimit="0" LeftLimit="0" RightLimit="0" RateLimit="0" SystemID="left_guns_outter" Tracer="30" Trainable="0" Trigger="0" Type="50calBrowningM2_gun" Name="Left Machine Guns" ConvergeDistance="300" Pitch=".1489" MaxAmmo="350" UseSmallFlash="1"/>
<GunStation UpLimit="0" DownLimit="0" LeftLimit="0" RightLimit="0" RateLimit="0" SystemID="right_guns_outter" Tracer="45" Trainable="0" Trigger="0" Type="50calBrowningM2_gun" Name="Right Machine Guns" ConvergeDistance="300" Pitch=".1489" MaxAmmo="350" UseSmallFlash="1"/>
</GunStations>

Description and short name changes
ShortName="Seafire IIe"
<Description String="Seafire Mk IIe
This aircraft was orginally assigned to 601 Squadron, but was turned over to 249 Squadron when the remnants of 601 Squadron left Malta for Egypt, January 1942.
Seafire MKIIe with Merlin 55 engine, Bendix Stromberg negative G carborator and metal ailerons. Clipped wing with E version armament with 2x .50in MGs @ 350 rpg; 2x 20mm Hispano cannons @ 60 rpg; up to 500 lbs in bombs.

And yep it was/is a three ace plane as stated in the description section of the xdp file.

Flight Model By: Bill (Spitfrnd) Wilson
Three Aces
4/27/04 09:38 PM
Flight Model Workbook V2.85.06
Visual model: Josh (Zuyax) Ziebarth
LOD assistance: Mathias Pommerien
Paint scheme: Josh (Zuyax) Ziebarth
"/>

Its still not perfect but its a bit closer now, thanks.

regards Rob.
 
Hey Rob... small world, I also went to 'E' wing armament ie 303's to 50's and I'm 99% sure we're correct... the 1% occurring
w/ the fact that it was, after all a 'Seafire' and a Seafire flying out of Malta w/ Malta's unique ability to mix & match stuff...

...I tell ya tho'... that .303 was useless any further back than say 10 yds (LOL)!
 
Cheers, Rob!


But don't make that standard for any of the ETO Spits/Seas! They all have the B armament. This is just useful for pretend Spit LF.IXe or XVIe stand-ins... Sorry if I got you thinking otherwise. It's a bit complicated... I've seen photos of MkIII Seas with the B wing and slim bulges - so that's correct. You work it out! If the IIc had C wings, why go back? But now I think of it, I've even seen MkXVs with B wings.

I'm still trying to work out if you're correct in identifying this aircraft as a Seafire IIc. MkIIs used the 40-series Merlin, so they had the shorter nose of the Spit V, as on the Seafire MkI. MkIIc aircraft did have a four-blade prop, though. This one has the longer nose though of the MkIX Spit, which means it's got a Merlin 55 or 55M - so it's a MkIII. I think...
 
ndicki said:
Cheers, Rob!


But don't make that standard for any of the ETO Spits/Seas! They all have the B armament. This is just useful for pretend Spit LF.IXe or XVIe stand-ins... Sorry if I got you thinking otherwise. It's a bit complicated... I've seen photos of MkIII Seas with the B wing and slim bulges - so that's correct. You work it out! If the IIc had C wings, why go back? But now I think of it, I've even seen MkXVs with B wings.

I'm still trying to work out if you're correct in identifying this aircraft as a Seafire IIc. MkIIs used the 40-series Merlin, so they had the shorter nose of the Spit V, as on the Seafire MkI. MkIIc aircraft did have a four-blade prop, though. This one has the longer nose though of the MkIX Spit, which means it's got a Merlin 55 or 55M - so it's a MkIII. I think...
Click to expand...

Hi Nigel,

Does B wing have 2 mg and 1 cannon on each wing..?

The seafires are modelled with only 1 mg and 1 cannon on each wing.

in game with these planes you only see two muzzle flashes on each wing, so even thought the bulges probably represent the B wing, the actual armament in game seems to be more in line with the E wing?? (less one little stub next to the cannon were they blanked off the extra cannon location)

it looks strange having the two mg gun ports etc painted in but no muzzle flashes or shells showing in game to match.

The MkIIc naming is just what the plane came with, I simply assumed it was correct from the modeller. Should I change it in the description and and label it seafire MkIIIe instead of seafire MkIIe (as I currently have it)

anyhelp much appreciated,

regards Rob.
 
Rob, I think the correct term is simply "Seafire MkIII" with no C or E to it. Most of the photos I can find show MkIIIs with "B"-type wings carrying 1x20mm Hispano and 2x.303 Brownings per wing.

Here you are - nothing wrong with the model at all. This one uses the xdp from the MkVb, although you should really use the one from the MkIXc, as this is closer to the Sea MkIII. Simply a question of gunpositions. I seem to remember reading somewhere that the outer Brownings were occasionally stripped off aircraft in Malta and elsewhere.

Google searches are no good - all you can find are photos of the prototype MkIII, which as it was converted out of a IIc, still has the C wing. The best picture I can find is this, which I've scanned from the Aerospace Publications "British Warplanes of World War Two." A Seafire LH.MkIII, No.894 Sqn FAA, HMS Indefatigable, Sumatra. Also, as I said, subsequent marks, such as the MkXV and MkXVII, also kept the B wing. Goodness knows why! It may have something to do with the Royal Navy's rather traditional approach to things - look how long it took them to accept jet aircraft!

No - I can't upload pictures. Wait a bit. But try the xdp file swop, in any case.
 
Hi Nigel,

thanks Nigel I'll give it a go, and let you know how I get on. I'll swap out the gunstation information.

regards Rob.
 
This works. Straight from the MkVb.


<?xml version="1.0"?>
<UnitData>
<General Allegience="0" LongName="Spitfire_MkVb_AZ-B" ShortName="Spit V AZ-B" ModelName="Spitfire_MkVb_AZ-B.m3d" BlastDamageScale="1.0" ImpactDamageScale="1.0" FireDamageScale="1.0" Priority="1" Type="moving" EnteredService="06/01/1942" LeftService="12/1/1947" BlastDamageMod="1" ImpactDamageMod="1" FireDamageMod="1" Category="fighter_bomber" Country="Britain" AllowSpawn="y" InfoURL="help\topics\infospit.htm" ChecklistURL="help\topics\infospit.htm"/>
<GunStations>
<GunStation UpLimit="0" DownLimit="0" LeftLimit="0" RightLimit="0" RateLimit="0" SystemID="right_guns" Tracer="40" Trainable="0" Trigger="0" Type="AvHistory_gb_gun_303cal" Name="outer right Guns" ConvergeDistance="250" Pitch=".1489" MaxAmmo="370"/>
<GunStation UpLimit="0" DownLimit="0" LeftLimit="0" RightLimit="0" RateLimit="0" SystemID="right_cheek_gun" Tracer="40" Trainable="0" Trigger="0" Type="AvHistory_gb_gun_303cal" Name="Inner right Guns" ConvergeDistance="250" Pitch=".1489" MaxAmmo="370"/>
<GunStation UpLimit="0" DownLimit="0" LeftLimit="0" RightLimit="0" RateLimit="0" SystemID="right_cannon" Tracer="40" Trainable="0" Trigger="0" Type="avhistory_gb_gun_hispano_mk2" Name="Right Cannon" ConvergeDistance="250" Pitch=".1489" MaxAmmo="120"/>
<GunStation UpLimit="0" DownLimit="0" LeftLimit="0" RightLimit="0" RateLimit="0" SystemID="left_cannon" Tracer="40" Trainable="0" Trigger="0" Type="avhistory_gb_gun_hispano_mk2" Name="Left Cannon" ConvergeDistance="250" Pitch=".1489" MaxAmmo="120"/>
<GunStation UpLimit="0" DownLimit="0" LeftLimit="0" RightLimit="0" RateLimit="0" SystemID="left_cheek_gun" Tracer="40" Trainable="0" Trigger="0" Type="AvHistory_gb_gun_303cal" Name="inner left Guns inner" ConvergeDistance="250" Pitch=".1489" MaxAmmo="370"/>
<GunStation UpLimit="0" DownLimit="0" LeftLimit="0" RightLimit="0" RateLimit="0" SystemID="left_guns" Tracer="40" Trainable="0" Trigger="0" Type="AvHistory_gb_gun_303cal" Name="inner left Guns inner" ConvergeDistance="250" Pitch=".1489" MaxAmmo="370"/>
</GunStations>
<Seats>
<Seat Name="Pilot">
<Stations>
<Station Name="Pilot" Type="pilot_station" View="0" FovUp="25" FovDown="15">
<PadlockLimit AzimuthMin="-154" AzimuthMax="154" ElevationMax="90" ElevationMin="-55"/>
<Views>
<View Event="HeadStop"/>
<View Event="HeadPitchUp" Azimuth="0" Elevation="-40"/>
<View Event="HeadPitchDown" Azimuth="0" Elevation="19"/>
<View Event="HeadPitchUpLeft" Azimuth="-45" Elevation="5"/>
<View Event="HeadPitchUpRight" Azimuth="45" Elevation="5"/>
<View Event="HeadRotLeft" Azimuth="-90" Elevation="-5"/>
<View Event="HeadRotRight" Azimuth="90" Elevation="-5"/>
<View Event="HeadPitchDownLeft" Azimuth="-154" Elevation="0"/>
<View Event="HeadPitchDownRight" Azimuth="154" Elevation="0"/>
</Views>
<GunStations>
<GunStation ID="0"/>
<GunStation ID="1"/>
<GunStation ID="2"/>
<GunStation ID="3"/>
<GunStation ID="4"/>
<GunStation ID="5"/>
</GunStations>
</Station>
</Stations>
</Seat>
</Seats>
<Description String="1% - Spitfire MkVb
 
Hi Nigel,

Thanks for that, it was the gunstation ID data that was differant.
<GunStations>
<GunStation ID="0"/>
<GunStation ID="1"/>
<GunStation ID="2"/>
<GunStation ID="3"/>
<GunStation ID="4"/>
<GunStation ID="5"/>
</GunStations>
they only had 0 to 3 missing 4&5

I now have B wing guns working in game, I'll label them up as MkIII for the clip wing and MkI for the normal full wing version with no mention of wing type in the descriptions.

thanks again,

regards Rob.
 
The MkI is really a MkIb. Really! It can stay that way. But just out of interest, it drives me mad to see Arabic numerals used instead of the correct Roman numerals. At the time, all marks up to and including XX were given in Roman, higher than XX, in Arabic. Spitfire Mk.21 for example is correct; Mk.18 is not.

Just my little rant. There's only one way to get it right...
 
Hi Nigel,

no worries MkIb it is :)

for folder names and file names I use normal numbers to save on name lenght (less than 14 characters for MP suitability), but in the descriptions that show in game they have Roman numerals.

but I'll double check to be sure.

thanks again,

regards Rob.
 
I KNOW that you didn't say XVIe as in a mkIX w/ cut back fuselage and clipped 'E' wing.... (DREAM-ON pops)
 
...though I recall a rumor about a mkXIV 3d model w/ clipped wings(?) (....nah, it was just a dream)
 
Pops, the cut-down rear fuselage did not change the mark, at least up until the Mk21/22. For the Mks IX, XIV and XVI, nothing on paper could tell you which was which, unless you had access to the s/n block lists - and even then. Basically, the MkXVIe was a late-build MkIXe with a Packard Merlin and modified fuel capacity. Externally they were virtually identical.
 
Wishful thinking... ...meanwhile back in the spinning wheels dept.: any word on massaging PD's 3d model??
 
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