• There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Server side Maintenance is done. We still have an update to the forum software to run but that one will have to wait for a better time.

Just Flight's Constellation repaints ?

Status
Not open for further replies.
mgr said:
Above is way to BLACK and WHITE:

1. You have repaintkits in a lot off different forms, from full layered which was used developer, to a bit more basic for the "skinners" as you describe.
2. The better the repaintkit, usually means more repaints = more exposure for the original design = hopefully more sales
3. The line between skinners and repainters as put in this topic is again not that black and white (as repainter i feel even insulted by some comments made in this topic)
4. A good repaintkit which i made in the mind of repainters, will make the "skinners" into "repainters" because they are challenged to modify all the layers (incl. specs en bumps) to fit there repaint.
This may need some more effort by the developer, yet see point 2.

Kind regards,

Marcel
FS Repainters since 1996.
Click to expand...

With respect.
1. Agree however , with new pbr techniques ( both in the generation of the textures and the way materials are set up ) this becomes tougher/less cost effective/ and less ROI See point 2.

2. Absolutely disagree here. Sorry but no extra sales. More exposure for the repainter yes agree with you. Not so much for the original development.

3. Again have to disagree with a caveat. If I were a repainter only I would see the greyness In that I agree whole heartedly. However I'm on the dev side.

Take a model that is UV'd but no textures in grey. Everything has to be done from scratch. If I were to ask a person to paint it from that point they would only have wires and colour ID. I would classify that person as a painter/repainter.
If however I had already done a texture, scribed the lines, rivets , made the decision where the dirt is going to go where the ground crew may have scratched something when replacing a bolt that was sheared off during a bumpy landing, done the normal maps, decals, noseart etc and tested it in sim then handed you every layer in a nicely named layer stack with comments and a readme then I am sorry but I classify you as a skinner.

I dont understand why you might feel insulted by that. Being a skinner is not a derogatory term. It's a different term for a different type of user. unless I am missing something.

4. I understand your thinking. and it is a good idea from a person who is an "fs repainter since 1996" However, we are developers. We arent trying to turn skinners into repainters. We're trying to make affordable addons that are interesting , different , cost effective ( to you and us ) and have a very good SPH ( smiles per hour ) that's our mission. If a skinner wants to become a repainter the onus is on that person surely ?

I'm not attacking Marcel here. Really I'm not, it is good to hear opposing points of view. I agree with some of what he says and definitely appreciate his point of views on others. But I am a developer. As such my point of view is going to be different. To use the car analogy a car manufacturer is going to have very different ideas on what they will produce and include from a features point of view, than an enthusiast. A happy medium has to be found. I feel we've found that.

I'd also like to thanK stovall for keeping the thread open. I didnt see the call for it to be closed in the posts since my last one but again let me say my posts might differ from your ideas ( as yours may differ from mine ) but we're all adults and we should be able to read differing opinions without the need to resort to thread closure. I'd like to think a developer has a right of reply and an opinion in 2019.


 
Skinner definition: a person who prepares or deals in animal skins
Click to expand...

Think repainter is still the best word. Repainters do you have in a lot different forms and use different methods.

For the record i have also developed/designed for FS and made repaintkits. Have done repaints, with and without repaintkits or modified repaintkits.

Kind regards,

Marcel
 
mgr said:
Think repainter is still the best word. Repainters do you have in a lot different forms and use different methods.

For the record i have also developed/designed for FS and made repaintkits. Have done repaints, with and without repaintkits or modified repaintkits.

Kind regards,

Marcel
Click to expand...

The term skinner comes/came from my background in software. You skin an application. Heck theyre called winamp skins. UI developers will skin an application in UX widgets. It's not a literal use of the word.

Either way the takeout is that in future a paintkit will be wires and ID. A repainter is going to be fine with that. A skinner might not but there are great sources on the internet ( Marcel here might be able to help plus the youtube video in this very thread ) that will help you paint from this point. And guess what you might enjoy it more as the outcome is purely yours and not some amalgam. You may even find that you'll find it more liberating.
 
pilto von pilto said:
The term skinner comes/came from my background in software. You skin an application. Heck theyre called winamp skins. UI developers will skin an application in UX widgets. It's not a literal use of the word.
Click to expand...

Pretty much the first 'skinning' eventuated when Nullsoft made a butt-ugly media player called Winamp [whips the Llama's ass...]...and a guy called FLy7e 'hacked' the proggy to alter the bitmaps used, and opened up to the world the whole potential [and entertainment] for GUI modification. Dedicated GUI and Shell mods/proggies came soon after as the idea caught on [and MS proved to be useless at aesthetics....WinXP and its Fisher-Price look was the final straw]. The most enduring of these mods is Stardock's Windowblinds - a Shell enhancement, and possibly the most fun was had with LoneRunnr's 'LiteSTEP' - a shell replacement which you used instead of 'Explorer.exe' [the Win Shell]. At the height of GUI skinning there were quite a few sites dedicated to the process ...the first was Customize.org, and [almost] the last still standing is Wincustomize.com. Even Deviantart.com started by Jark [would have been late 2000] was originally for skinning initially...expanding to cater for all digital art.

Before all that there were madmen [like me] that mucked with ASCHII codes to alter your cursor in Dos...ran various Dos shell replacements...or things like Calmira that turned Windows 3.11 into XP, etc. ... just so the appearance would be different/better.

Skinning was/is a generic term originating in the 90's for [computer proggy] graphic manipulation - which is what is done when you change graphics for a plane...and/or make your own 2D cockpit by coding and painting [as you do].

Proof of just how made we skinners got....there was even a proggy to alter the dreaded BSOD ....cos back in the day that was part of the OS you saw more often than not ...;)
 
I have only re-painted/re-skinned (whatever you may call it) a few airplanes. Some came with and some without, a paint kit. Some of the paint kits had layers and some did not. Each presented it's own challenge.
I use Photoshop and all I really need to be happy are a wire-frame layer (so I can find things) and a panel line layer (so I don't have to waste a lot of time fighting to get them to line up between halves). Anything else is just a nice bonus.

That said, when I choose to paint something, it's based on the model (and reference material I have for it), not whether it has a paint kit.
 
Jafo said:
Pretty much the first 'skinning' eventuated when Nullsoft made a butt-ugly media player called Winamp [whips the Llama's ass...]...and a guy called FLy7e 'hacked' the proggy to alter the bitmaps used, and opened up to the world the whole potential [and entertainment] for GUI modification. Dedicated GUI and Shell mods/proggies came soon after as the idea caught on [and MS proved to be useless at aesthetics....WinXP and its Fisher-Price look was the final straw]. The most enduring of these mods is Stardock's Windowblinds - a Shell enhancement, and possibly the most fun was had with LoneRunnr's 'LiteSTEP' - a shell replacement which you used instead of 'Explorer.exe' [the Win Shell]. At the height of GUI skinning there were quite a few sites dedicated to the process ...the first was Customize.org, and [almost] the last still standing is Wincustomize.com. Even Deviantart.com started by Jark [would have been late 2000] was originally for skinning initially...expanding to cater for all digital art.

Before all that there were madmen [like me] that mucked with ASCHII codes to alter your cursor in Dos...ran various Dos shell replacements...or things like Calmira that turned Windows 3.11 into XP, etc. ... just so the appearance would be different/better.

Skinning was/is a generic term originating in the 90's for [computer proggy] graphic manipulation - which is what is done when you change graphics for a plane...and/or make your own 2D cockpit by coding and painting [as you do].

Proof of just how made we skinners got....there was even a proggy to alter the dreaded BSOD ....cos back in the day that was part of the OS you saw more often than not ...;)
Click to expand...
Ah Winamp. "whip the llama’s ass". I worked at Musicmatch down here in San Diego and we had a kid there who did nothing but create skins. I'll get back on topic next post. Thanks for the reminder of the good old days.
:ernaehrung004:
 
ahh skinning. I did a few for wa2 and wa3 ( as it was back then .) and a few litestep/blackbox themes ( in fact I think they're still on dA somewhere ). I still remember going to work trying to find where I could put #ff00ff somewhere else rather than interacting with customers... Oddly enough maki scripting ( the scripting back end to winamp 3+5 skins ) is super close to xml/lua scripting which we all end up using in this hobby ! So it is all cyclical.

I actually miss the early 2000's app skinning scene. :dejection:

Ok enough reminiscing.
 
Nice repaint video, When I watch that video by Bill Womack, Bert's (Bert and Ernie Sesame street) voice comes to mind.

 
pilto von pilto said:
ahh skinning. I remember going to work trying to find where I could put #ff00ff somewhere else rather than interacting with customers...
Click to expand...
Ah....'magic pink'....if you Google 'Blame Maxim' you may just find a WA 2.9x skin that took magic pink to its 'illogical' limits [in Winamp].... 8000+ co-ordinates coded by hand until a guy called Maxim took pity on me and wrote a little script/proggy that would do it at a click of a button.
I still use the skin....a reminder of a 'forgotten' era...when the CEO of Nullsoft called me a 'clusterf***' for standing up for the copyrights of the artist/skinner...;)
 
Jafo said:
Ah....'magic pink'....if you Google 'Blame Maxim' you may just find a WA 2.9x skin that took magic pink to its 'illogical' limits [in Winamp].... 8000+ co-ordinates coded by hand until a guy called Maxim took pity on me and wrote a little script/proggy that would do it at a click of a button.
I still use the skin....a reminder of a 'forgotten' era...when the CEO of Nullsoft called me a 'clusterf***' for standing up for the copyrights of the artist/skinner...;)
Click to expand...


I'm using "Act2 Finale by Raj. I/O " on audacious ( linux support ) listening to bootsy collins right now :redfire: "if you hear any noise it's just me and the boys getting down.... ". To be honest I use it in shade mode along the top of the screen mainly. I should make a winamp skin that looks like a modo popout ( or a 3dsmax quad menu if I ever go back ) to make it look part of what I am doing... hmmm... nah got too much to do !
 
Thanks to everyone for their input. Seem this thread has run it's course and is wanders off topic. Time to move on and close this one.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top