Kill Claims - They didn't see THAT?!?

H

Hellshade

Guest
Dear Devs,

First off, I love this game!!! It's awesome. Now for the sake of historical accuracy, I fly with all the settings set to realistic except auto-rudder and auto mixture. I expect to get shot down regularly (and I am every few missions) and I fully realize that getting a Confirmation for Kill Claims was just brutally hard back then. So on Lone Wolf missions, I expect to get no credit. On any mission where my wingman survives, I expect to get credit for around a mere 20% of the ones I shoot down, because I figure they are too busy fighting for their life to take much notice of what I am shooting at.

I have no problems with any of that....HOWEVER I had a scramble mission over my own airfield because the british were attacking it. I was first up and there were 3 bris scouts flying about. They must have been all novices because I was able to shoot all three down with hardly a scratch to my own plane. Two crashed a hundred yards or less from my airfield and one crashed directly into it! None of my flight submitted any claims for Kills and none of them were shot down. I copied down the type of planes I killed and my wingmans name and rank correctly on the Kill Claim form. All three claims were REJECTED. I'm thinking when the entire flight survives and can see all three crashed enemy planes while standing on their own airfield (one of which they had to avoid the wreckage of while they landed) I should have had a really good chance of getting Confirmed Credit for those 3 kills. Evidently I had the wrong Wingman listed in the Report. I should have written down Ray Charles. :p

May I respectfully submit to the Devs that if and when a 1.2 patch ever comes out, that some tweaking of the Confirmation of Kill Claim reports be a part of it.

Most appreciately and respectfully yours,
Hellshade
 
Hellshade sounds like you are in the thick of it :)
There are many hidden facets to the claims, and we aren't telling, but where they crashed is the least of your worries ;). Did the adjutant drink too much whisky last night and lost your claim form down the toilet, did the jealous rookie with an uncle in the top brass put bad word in. Maybe the van with the dockets got bombed on the way, aah the fog of war.
:)

If P3 does well, and we do P4 we can add all sorts of features, even checking exactly where the craft were shot down (we already can read that info but do not use it everywhere yet) and if any ground units were nearby etc, so lots of possibilities. But your comment is noted I want my kills too ;)
 
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the claim process IMHO, war wasn't like it's shown in Hollywood.

Good guys always win, bad guys always lose, or Black & White. Well War is various shades of grey.

Stuff happens, watch the Blue Max, the Love Story is:bs:. But a script is very, very rarely followed
 
Next time...

Next time I'll be sure to shoot the fellow down so that he lands in the adjutants soup with a sign around his neck that says "Hellshade got me". Not that it will much matter. I'll probably be dead before they finish putting the paperwork through anyways. :engel016: War is Hell.

Thanks for the info, Pol. I want my kills too, although I find myself more and more concerned with just trying to live through 10 missions at this point. Who put the bug up the AI pilots arse? I'd like to know who I should be swearing at as my Bosch crate starts filling up with Allied bullets once again. Some of the bigger dogfights feel like I'm in the middle of a stirred up hornets nest!

Incredible work. Really.
Hellshade
 
Getting confirmation was always hit or miss and a lot of pilots never got theirs confirmed. I can't remember which service, but I've read that one of them had to have confirmation from a sources other than your squadron.

That scene in Blue Max where Stachel forces the plane back to his aerodrome then is forced to shoot it down {with the other pilots thinking that He brought it back to shoot it down} was as good as it was unsettling. Makes me wonder if it actually happened.
 
After you landed, did you walk over to the downed aircraft, cut out the serial number and throw it at the feet of the adjutant?
 
gimpyguy said:
There's absolutely nothing wrong with the claim process IMHO, war wasn't like it's shown in Hollywood.

Good guys always win, bad guys always lose, or Black & White. Well War is various shades of grey.

Stuff happens, watch the Blue Max, the Love Story is:bs:. But a script is very, very rarely followed
Click to expand...


I love the game and I love the effort (well worth the money I paid for the DVD) and I love the idea of the claim. I think its the coolest thing in flight sim history and I am not joking.

So I agree with what you are saying but only up to a point.

I do not agree that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the claim system and I think saying that sends the wrong message to the devs.

Planes that crash 100 yards from your airfield would have easily been confirmed. Also there are post on the boards of pilots achieving 30 kills and only 6 or 7 being confirmed...that's a bit tilted the other way and goes against the total immersion that is being achieved in other aspects of the game.


Raoul Lufbery is a good example of what should be considered an extreme case and exception , if you will, and not the rule of thumb. He had about 40 claims and was only credited with 16. That is a big disparity no doubt but again was not the normal example.

So somewhere in the middle , of where it currently is, is the sweet spot and I am sure the devs will work on it if it is viable to do so.

Pov, if you can determine where the kill lands , then in my opinion , if it lands in freindly territory it should have a huge chance of being confirmed out right...in enemy territory near the lines a lower chance and a an even lower chance if deep in enemy territory....that is just my humble suggestion.
 
As I've said in previous posts, this game IS the best thing since sliced bread...so no real complaints. But there is some tweaking to the claim approval that needs looking at. My jasta 7 pilot had 30 kills, and they only confirmed 7 of these. C'mon....Manfred didn't have to shoot down 320 planes to get 80 confirmed! I musta really irked the adjutant when I took his girlfriend for a ride. : )

ZZ.
 
Hellshade said:
Dear Devs,

First off, I love this game!!! It's awesome. Now for the sake of historical accuracy, I fly with all the settings set to realistic except auto-rudder and auto mixture. I expect to get shot down regularly (and I am every few missions) and I fully realize that getting a Confirmation for Kill Claims was just brutally hard back then. So on Lone Wolf missions, I expect to get no credit. On any mission where my wingman survives, I expect to get credit for around a mere 20% of the ones I shoot down, because I figure they are too busy fighting for their life to take much notice of what I am shooting at.

I have no problems with any of that....HOWEVER I had a scramble mission over my own airfield because the british were attacking it. I was first up and there were 3 bris scouts flying about. They must have been all novices because I was able to shoot all three down with hardly a scratch to my own plane. Two crashed a hundred yards or less from my airfield and one crashed directly into it! None of my flight submitted any claims for Kills and none of them were shot down. I copied down the type of planes I killed and my wingmans name and rank correctly on the Kill Claim form. All three claims were REJECTED. I'm thinking when the entire flight survives and can see all three crashed enemy planes while standing on their own airfield (one of which they had to avoid the wreckage of while they landed) I should have had a really good chance of getting Confirmed Credit for those 3 kills. Evidently I had the wrong Wingman listed in the Report. I should have written down Ray Charles. :p

May I respectfully submit to the Devs that if and when a 1.2 patch ever comes out, that some tweaking of the Confirmation of Kill Claim reports be a part of it.

Most appreciately and respectfully yours,
Hellshade
Click to expand...

Hello

Its hard for me to post in all threads but yes we are looking at all game aspects based on what folks post.

Remember we see posts of 'leave the claims as is' to 'I want to have all my kills recognized immediately'....

Watching and reading I assure you!

HTH

WM
 
Winder said:
Hello

Its hard for me to post in all threads but yes we are looking at all game aspects based on what folks post.

Remember we see posts of 'leave the claims as is' to 'I want to have all my kills recognized immediately'....

Watching and reading I assure you!

HTH

WM
Click to expand...

I've seen you chaps being a bit secretive of what makes a good claim (one more likely to succeed than another). Maybe it would be a good idea to adopt the role of the squadron CO and inform pilots of exactly what they need to put in their forms to garner the most favourable response from HQ. Or at least some sort of general guidelines. Better that than completely doing away with what seems to be a most excellent component.

Re the chap who got three kills directly over his own airfield, he must have left out a whole host of key-words in his claim to have them rejected.
 
Siggi said:
I've seen you chaps being a bit secretive of what makes a good claim (one more likely to succeed than another). Maybe it would be a good idea to adopt the role of the squadron CO and inform pilots of exactly what they need to put in their forms to garner the most favourable response from HQ. Or at least some sort of general guidelines. Better that than completely doing away with what seems to be a most excellent component.

Re the chap who got three kills directly over his own airfield, he must have left out a whole host of key-words in his claim to have them rejected.
Click to expand...


Siggi that is a good idea , it can perhaps be an FAQ on filling out claims...if you don't want to give it away for yourself do not read it but if you do want to learn how to fill it out properly you read the FAQ etc.

everyone is happy
 
I'm guessing that even with a perfectly written claim there will still be some kills rejected. That's really as bad as it should be. Losing kills because some wallah at HQ doesn't like the cut of ones text is a bit rich. Personally I'd feel obliged to pay a visit and give somebody a horse-whipping. Damned desk-jockies, don't have a clue what one's up against up there.
 
Doesn't work well when the desk jockey outranks you and is the son of a General. But I understand the sentiment. I've wanted to do that in real life a few times. And a few times I've played the bureaucrat game aginst them and won {make that very few times....}.
 
Winder said:
Remember we see posts of 'leave the claims as is' to 'I want to have all my kills recognized immediately'....

Watching and reading I assure you!

WM
Click to expand...

Of course you can never make everyone happy.

WM, I say just do as you have wisely done with everything else in the game, which is
- make as realistic and historically accurate as possible, or
- make it user adjustable in the workshops.

These two things have been key to making OFF the fantastic sim it is, so all i say is...more please :)

I would have more to say on the topic, but am embarassed to say I have yet to get a claim, so haven't had the experience in BHaH!! Ouch.
 
Just to be clear about what I said in my original post on this thread (please feel free to re-read it) : I have NO PROBLEM not getting credit for Lone Wolf Hunting Kills. I have NO PROBLEM getting credit for a mesely 20% of kills where I do have a witness to confirm them. I even keep a notepad next to my keyboard to make sure I write down my wingmans first and last name correctly along with their rank AND the type of plane I shot down so I have the best chance of that lousy 20%. If the exact type of plane isn't listed in the pull down menu (say it was a Sopwith Camel) then I choose Single Seater and I write in the name of the plane type in the description.

I completely understand people who want to "keep it just the way it is" and others who would like to see a more historically accurate model used. I definately have not suggested, nor would I want, the Claims Confirmation system removed. But I do have an idea that hopefully wouldn't be too much work for the Devs if they decided to adopt it and implement it one day in the distant future.

In the Workshop, how about having 3 options on the Kill Claims system. Easy (guaranteed confirmation per kill)
Medium (a good % chance for confirmation if you have a witness)
Realistic (the system in place now)

Not being a coder, I don't know if that's a nightmare to create or not, but I bet it would satisfy a broad base of users, just like having easy to realistic flight model options does.

Just a thought.
Hellshade

Ha. I see Scout posted the same idea as I was typing this.
 
Hellshade said:
Just to be clear about what I said in my original post on this thread (please feel free to re-read it) : I have NO PROBLEM not getting credit for Lone Wolf Hunting Kills. I have NO PROBLEM getting credit for a mesely 20% of kills where I do have a witness to confirm them. I even keep a notepad next to my keyboard to make sure I write down my wingmans first and last name correctly along with their rank AND the type of plane I shot down so I have the best chance of that lousy 20%. If the exact type of plane isn't listed in the pull down menu (say it was a Sopwith Camel) then I choose Single Seater and I write in the name of the plane type in the description.

I completely understand people who want to "keep it just the way it is" and others who would like to see a more historically accurate model used. I definately have not suggested, nor would I want, the Claims Confirmation system removed. But I do have an idea that hopefully wouldn't be too much work for the Devs if they decided to adopt it and implement it one day in the distant future.

In the Workshop, how about having 3 options on the Kill Claims system. Easy (guaranteed confirmation per kill)
Medium (a good % chance for confirmation if you have a witness)
Realistic (the system in place now)

Not being a coder, I don't know if that's a nightmare to create or not, but I bet it would satisfy a broad base of users, just like having easy to realistic flight model options does.

Just a thought.
Hellshade

Ha. I see Scout posted the same idea as I was typing this.
Click to expand...


Yes I am looking at putting in more workshop claims options as posted elsewhere before this - cant remember where ahem:wiggle:


WM
 
Hellshade said:
Just to be clear about what I said in my original post on this thread (please feel free to re-read it) : I have NO PROBLEM not getting credit for Lone Wolf Hunting Kills. I have NO PROBLEM getting credit for a mesely 20% of kills where I do have a witness to confirm them. I even keep a notepad next to my keyboard to make sure I write down my wingmans first and last name correctly along with their rank AND the type of plane I shot down so I have the best chance of that lousy 20%. If the exact type of plane isn't listed in the pull down menu (say it was a Sopwith Camel) then I choose Single Seater and I write in the name of the plane type in the description.

I completely understand people who want to "keep it just the way it is" and others who would like to see a more historically accurate model used. I definately have not suggested, nor would I want, the Claims Confirmation system removed. But I do have an idea that hopefully wouldn't be too much work for the Devs if they decided to adopt it and implement it one day in the distant future.

In the Workshop, how about having 3 options on the Kill Claims system. Easy (guaranteed confirmation per kill)
Medium (a good % chance for confirmation if you have a witness)
Realistic (the system in place now)

Not being a coder, I don't know if that's a nightmare to create or not, but I bet it would satisfy a broad base of users, just like having easy to realistic flight model options does.

Just a thought.
Hellshade

Ha. I see Scout posted the same idea as I was typing this.
Click to expand...

Cool idea. Or how about this? An option that shows your total kill claims, total kills confirmed, actual kills (that the computer KNOWS you shot down), and percentage of confirmed vs. actual.
 
BaronMybuns said:
Cool idea. Or how about this? An option that shows your total kill claims, total kills confirmed, actual kills (that the computer KNOWS you shot down), and percentage of confirmed vs. actual.
Click to expand...


You know just about every single idea in this thread is great....:woot:
 
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