Fantastically put. not specifically in reply to this thread, but to life in general.
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The Staff of SOH
L-39 Albatross in the news(and not in a good way)
- Thread starter hews500d
- Start date
Fantastically put. not specifically in reply to this thread, but to life in general.
centuryseries
SOH-CM-2023
I'm not a kill joy, I love speed like the next person, however I believe that sticking to the rules as much as possible on the highways or anywhere else makes life safer for everyone. These rules are there for a reason.
I'm certain that there were kids running, and I don't think they thought it was 'cool'!
Had the L-39 stunt crew warned people then that would've been slightly better. But even so, at that low level by the coast a Seagull in the intake could've ended everything for those innocent bystanders.
centuryseries
SOH-CM-2023
ROFL..... we did that in a Cessna a few weeks ago, flying low (20 feet)over the sea off the English coast. NOT over the people of course.... but I am pretty sure peeps in this continent would not go running off in a frenzy like that......
I hope you were by yourself when you did that. :isadizzy:
People do get scared of abnormal low flying, there were several phone calls to the military and UK Police when an Army Puma with a reckless flight crew decided to break the rules and try and perform low level maneuvers for which they were apparently not qualified. Ended up killing a fair few people that day.
lukecrowley571
Members +
Sometimes, in certain situations, FS is just more fun than real life. :mixedsmi:
In FSX, you can hop into an L-39, buzz Santa Monica pier for as long as you want, then when you finally get bored with that, head for downtown and pop some knife-edges through the skyscrapers, after which you can head for the Hollywood hills and do some serious terrain-following, before finishing it all off with a full-throttle blast along Malibu beach at 50 ft and landing at KLAX just because you feel like it.
In FSX, you can hop into an L-39, buzz Santa Monica pier for as long as you want, then when you finally get bored with that, head for downtown and pop some knife-edges through the skyscrapers, after which you can head for the Hollywood hills and do some serious terrain-following, before finishing it all off with a full-throttle blast along Malibu beach at 50 ft and landing at KLAX just because you feel like it.
centuryseries
SOH-CM-2023
Sometimes, in certain situations, FS is just more fun than real life. :mixedsmi:
In FSX, you can hop into an L-39, buzz Santa Monica pier for as long as you want, then when you finally get bored with that, head for downtown and pop some knife-edges through the skyscrapers, after which you can head for the Hollywood hills and do some serious terrain-following, before finishing it all off with a full-throttle blast along Malibu beach at 50 ft and landing at KLAX just because you feel like it.
thats why I like FSX too.
Lotus
Charter Member
I totally agree on the danger of bird ingestion. I lived next to Santa Monica (Marina del Rey) for a few years and there are a *lot* of gulls there, especially around the pier with all that junk food laying around. At those speeds though ingesting a bird would give you plenty of time to exchange airspeed for altitude and bail out over the water. If the bird took off a wing though... yeah not so good!
As for the road rules I must respectfully disagree as to their purpose. Most of the restricted speed limits came into play during the fuel crisis of the 70s as a way to decrease petrol usage across the board. A nice side effect of course is the insane amounts of money municipalities receive from speeding tickets. Skilled drivers don't obey those limits because they can do better and idiots don't because they don't know any better.
I say the solution is in the training and licensing. It needs to be 10x as thorough as it is currently. In Finland drivers are required to spend 3 days learning spin recovery on a skid pad before they can get their license. That in my opinion is proper training. It's the same rationale behind practicing stalls and spins when getting your PPL. You need to know how to recognize and deal with it when it happens, instinctively, and that has to come before you fly solo. I don't believe it's possible to understand true car control until you've been way past the limits and out of control many times and learned to recover. No driving instructor here will ever tell you that throttle and speed can actually save your life in certain situations, but it can, and it's saved mine twice because of mistakes other drivers have made. Unfortunately the only way to learn car control properly in North America is to take racing courses, something I think every driver should do.
Maybe times have changed and I live in a dream world, dunno!
-Mike
As for the road rules I must respectfully disagree as to their purpose. Most of the restricted speed limits came into play during the fuel crisis of the 70s as a way to decrease petrol usage across the board. A nice side effect of course is the insane amounts of money municipalities receive from speeding tickets. Skilled drivers don't obey those limits because they can do better and idiots don't because they don't know any better.
I say the solution is in the training and licensing. It needs to be 10x as thorough as it is currently. In Finland drivers are required to spend 3 days learning spin recovery on a skid pad before they can get their license. That in my opinion is proper training. It's the same rationale behind practicing stalls and spins when getting your PPL. You need to know how to recognize and deal with it when it happens, instinctively, and that has to come before you fly solo. I don't believe it's possible to understand true car control until you've been way past the limits and out of control many times and learned to recover. No driving instructor here will ever tell you that throttle and speed can actually save your life in certain situations, but it can, and it's saved mine twice because of mistakes other drivers have made. Unfortunately the only way to learn car control properly in North America is to take racing courses, something I think every driver should do.
Maybe times have changed and I live in a dream world, dunno!
-Mike
centuryseries
SOH-CM-2023
I totally agree on the danger of bird ingestion. I lived next to Santa Monica (Marina del Rey) for a few years and there are a *lot* of gulls there, especially around the pier with all that junk food laying around. At those speeds though ingesting a bird would give you plenty of time to exchange airspeed for altitude and bail out over the water. If the bird took off a wing though... yeah not so good!
As for the road rules I must respectfully disagree as to their purpose. Most of the restricted speed limits came into play during the fuel crisis of the 70s as a way to decrease petrol usage across the board. A nice side effect of course is the insane amounts of money municipalities receive from speeding tickets. Skilled drivers don't obey those limits because they can do better and idiots don't because they don't know any better.
I say the solution is in the training and licensing. It needs to be 10x as thorough as it is currently. In Finland drivers are required to spend 3 days learning spin recovery on a skid pad before they can get their license. That in my opinion is proper training. It's the same rationale behind practicing stalls and spins when getting your PPL. You need to know how to recognize and deal with it when it happens, instinctively, and that has to come before you fly solo. I don't believe its possible to understand car control until you've been out of control many times and learned to recover. No driving instructor here will ever tell you that throttle and speed can actually save your life in certain situations, but it can, and it's saved mine twice because of mistakes other drivers have made. Unfortunately the only way to learn car control properly in North America is to take racing courses, something I think every driver should do.
Maybe times have changed and I live in a dream world, dunno!
-Mike
In the UK, where roads seem to be forever crowded I must respectfully disagree. I believe that it is better to avoid being in situations where you can spin the car by driving according to road conditions, thus removing the need for spin recovery skills. Finland gets more snow and ice than us, and therefore it would help them greatly, but be of little benefit to us here.
For most people here the chances of spinning their cars is so slim that spin recovery skills would be long forgotten if it ever happened to them!
What about a birdstrike to the front windshield? Being an oldish plane my guess is that the glass/plastic material would break?
Lotus
Charter Member
Absolutely it's best to drive to the road conditions, but even more important in both flying and driving is to know your own personal skill limits. A new driver can probably take a wet and slippery corner at the speed limit and be ok, a rally driver can do it in the same car at 4x that limit with no problem. To me skill is everything. The more you practice the better you are and the higher your limits and better your judgments are. I want to see the bars raised, not lowered. Compare the cost of driver training that is 4x as long and complete to the cost of a single accident that could have been avoided with better skills. Easy!
As for the plexi windscreen, the L-39 manual doesn't list its bird strike tolerance, just checked, but given how overbuilt the rest of the plane is I'd have to assume it's pretty tough stuff.
-Mike
As for the plexi windscreen, the L-39 manual doesn't list its bird strike tolerance, just checked, but given how overbuilt the rest of the plane is I'd have to assume it's pretty tough stuff.
-Mike
T
tigisfat
Guest
A few things here:
The FAA is not the "fun police". The FAA has plenty of provisions for @$$hole pilots like myself who want to fly on the edge. There are simply programs to ensure that pilots fly aerobatics at safe altitudes and not over gatherings of people and a rule that says how low we can fly. The program and altitude restrictions are very liberal. Waivers are given for airshows, and competency checks are done for pilots who will fly in those airshows. All of the above are easy to obtain if your motivation is sound. Myself and other aerobatic pilots will always strive to maintain an image of professionalism and honed skill, not one of testosterone and risky behavior.
If you're not over a densely populated area, you may fly no closer than 500 feet to a person or piece of property. That's more than fair. 500 feet is quite low. This L-39 may very well have never come within 500 feet of the pier, depending on how the camera made it look.
As for his rolls? If he was over 1,500 feet before he started aerobatic maneuvers, then he was legal. Aerobatics are (simplified) defined as abrupt maneuvers and bank/pitch angles greater than 60 degrees. He may have to pay the pied piper here.
Stupid people: The media are questioning the use of military aircraft, as if they are lawmakers and have the qualifications to question activities and redirect attention. Most aircraft designed for unlimited class aerobatics are capable of maneuvers no fighter jet could ever dream of. What's so bad about having jet fighters in the hands of civilians?
The FAA is not the "fun police". The FAA has plenty of provisions for @$$hole pilots like myself who want to fly on the edge. There are simply programs to ensure that pilots fly aerobatics at safe altitudes and not over gatherings of people and a rule that says how low we can fly. The program and altitude restrictions are very liberal. Waivers are given for airshows, and competency checks are done for pilots who will fly in those airshows. All of the above are easy to obtain if your motivation is sound. Myself and other aerobatic pilots will always strive to maintain an image of professionalism and honed skill, not one of testosterone and risky behavior.
If you're not over a densely populated area, you may fly no closer than 500 feet to a person or piece of property. That's more than fair. 500 feet is quite low. This L-39 may very well have never come within 500 feet of the pier, depending on how the camera made it look.
As for his rolls? If he was over 1,500 feet before he started aerobatic maneuvers, then he was legal. Aerobatics are (simplified) defined as abrupt maneuvers and bank/pitch angles greater than 60 degrees. He may have to pay the pied piper here.
Stupid people: The media are questioning the use of military aircraft, as if they are lawmakers and have the qualifications to question activities and redirect attention. Most aircraft designed for unlimited class aerobatics are capable of maneuvers no fighter jet could ever dream of. What's so bad about having jet fighters in the hands of civilians?
W
waka172rg
Guest
Love the vid L-39 looks good low level and pull up roll roll yeh harrr!!
GT182
Charter Member
He will face severe fines and maybe a loss of his flight ticket. Last I knew it was 700' for minimum altitude unless you got a special clearance. And it's highly doubtful he got any sort of special clearance to pull a stupid stunt like that. Sorry, but you fly by the rules or you don't fly.
That said, this past Sunday I was up in an L-39. Retired Airforce Capt. J. Gano was the pilot and I was in the RIO seat. And yes it was Pipsqueak that Mike has done in his L-39 Albatros for FSX. Tho not intended, we actually ened up in a highspeed stall, which we recovered from because we were at a safe altitude. If the same had happened to Riggs I can only, and thankfully so, imagine what the outcome would have been seeing he was so low.
BTW... I joined the 7G Club, twice in the one flight. And safely I might add.
That said, this past Sunday I was up in an L-39. Retired Airforce Capt. J. Gano was the pilot and I was in the RIO seat. And yes it was Pipsqueak that Mike has done in his L-39 Albatros for FSX. Tho not intended, we actually ened up in a highspeed stall, which we recovered from because we were at a safe altitude. If the same had happened to Riggs I can only, and thankfully so, imagine what the outcome would have been seeing he was so low.
BTW... I joined the 7G Club, twice in the one flight. And safely I might add.