Late '50's CVA-42 FDR Carrier?

[navy81]

Quite possible to use Gary's Midway '75 which is fantastic. The only issue is the MUCH wider angled deck (LA). It is a really good, frame friendly, carrier - and free.
As far as pulling off the E-1B, A-6, and A-4 from Lazarus's CVA-43, i tried with MCX, but many of the small objects (gear, wheels, etc) are tied to other objects, most notably - the flight deck. So while I was able to "remove" much of the large structures of those aircraft, there were some remnants. Not a good option there either.

So, I tried working (as Delta Lima suggested) with SWS Coral Sea - and effectively removed the Air Wing and repainted the Island and deck from 43 to 42. The problem here is likely copyright infringement, since it is part of a payware package. It looks quite good in mcx but have not tried it in FSX - and would only want to do so if clearance was obtained from SWS. If anyone has a good lead and relationship with them, is it worth a try to contact and make that request? They produced a beautiful carrier.

Deke
Navy81

MCX pictures

 

[FlyingsCool]

Oops, I missed that the end of the runway on the port side was also an elevator in SCB-110

 

[FlyingsCool]

Quite possible to use Gary's Midway '75 which is fantastic. The only issue is the MUCH wider angled deck (LA). It is a really good, frame friendly, carrier - and free.
As far as pulling off the E-1B, A-6, and A-4 from Lazarus's CVA-43, i tried with MCX, but many of the small objects (gear, wheels, etc) are tied to other objects, most notably - the flight deck. So while I was able to "remove" much of the large structures of those aircraft, there were some remnants. Not a good option there either.

So, I tried working (as Delta Lima suggested) with SWS Coral Sea - and effectively removed the Air Wing and repainted the Island and deck from 43 to 42. The problem here is likely copyright infringement, since it is part of a payware package. It looks quite good in mcx but have not tried it in FSX - and would only want to do so if clearance was obtained from SWS. If anyone has a good lead and relationship with them, is it worth a try to contact and make that request? They produced a beautiful carrier.

Deke
Navy81

MCX pictures

Nice!
Yeah, I didn't purchase the SWS models,... yet, anyway... seem to be many people having issues with it, anyway.

 

[FlyingsCool]

I think the 723 paint is wrong for this cruise. I found a source that said only modexes 701-703 were used for the cruise. But I haven't found any photos to be able to figure out which bureau numbers match those modex's. I did find a photo which showed "27X4", but an officers hat hid the 3rd number, and the top of the tail was cut off by another photo hiding the modex number So it could be an AD-5(N?) 132724 or AD-5W 132734 I think it's most likely 132734, but that doesn't help me determine the modex number.

Edit: Oops, definitely wrong, I had swapped up the modexes for VA(AW)-33 Det. 37 and VAW-12 Det. 37.

Now, the funny thing is, the officers of VAW-12 were in front of 27X4, but 132724 is an AD-5 (perhaps converted to a -5N?), but the canopy, which I can only see a little bit of, looks more like an AD-5W (132734 would be a possibility for that). Geez, looking over the pictures, I had it ALL backwards

And this is the first time I noticed the Mickey Mouse insignia, and the fact the front of the radome on the AD-5W behind them was all black! Eek... I gotta pay more attention!

Oh, and look at their patches

And, interesting the landing gear cover is missing on the right gear of 803

 

[tgycgijoes]

AI Boat Traffic

I know the Med cruises are relatively boring compared to the active duty cruises of the '60's and '70's, but the FDR is important to me cause my Dad was on the '57 cruise on it.

After I release the paints, my next goal is to float around in the Med and visit the ports the FDR did on her cruise, try to get a feeling for what it was like.

But, yes, the Da Nang and Essex are exciting news, too. Gary already released a CVT-16 that was great for me to practice from as if my dad had made it to Carrier Quals.

Question: Is it possible to say make an AI track as if a fleet was on a cruise and have it stop at ports? Maybe trigger different AI tracks so say, make a cruise from Gibraltar to Cannes, flying next to or riding on the boat as it cruised after landing on it to the port. Then, when you're ready, either trigger a new AI track, or load another flight with the next AI track for the same boats from Cannes to Nice?

Question 2: Is there a source that shows the actual ports of call for any given cruise. The cruise book discusses where they visited, but, it's not clear which are ports. For instance it talks about visiting Paris, but I don't see how given the ports they sort of talked about going to. Based on the cruise book, (CVG-17 (AL) 7/57-3/58)) it seems like it went:

Mayport, FL -> Norfolk, VA -> Gibraltar -> Cannes -> Nice -> Paris??? -> Monaco -> Barcelona -> Athens -> Corfu -> Rhodes -> Cannes for Christmas -> Swiss Alps??? -> Genoa (which it says was the only Italian port) -> Rome??? -> Palma, Majorca -> Gibraltar -> Home (Mayport, FL?)

On a smaller scale, I did exactly that with AI Boat Traffic when I created NAS Alameda. I had the USS Constellation cruise from NAS Alameda to NAS San Diego and anchor in the harbor. You have to program the tracks in Google Earth. You can find out how to do this at Misty Moorings and the program is free. It is a lot of work but so much fun as you see it work. I think that I would program from Mayport to Norfolk as #1, then when you start FSX again, Norfolk to Gibralter as the next port of call etc. Do it in legs. I also programmed from NAS Alameda to Pearl Harbor the same way. It works. I quit experimenting when no one wanted to join me in my vCVW9 back 4 years ago. https://return.mistymoorings.com/faq/files/AI Boat Traffic for Dummies.pdf Here is your plan book to start with. Looking forward to you posting your results.

 

[FlyingsCool]

On a smaller scale, I did exactly that with AI Boat Traffic when I created NAS Alameda. I had the USS Constellation cruise from NAS Alameda to NAS San Diego and anchor in the harbor. You have to program the tracks in Google Earth. You can find out how to do this at Misty Moorings and the program is free. It is a lot of work but so much fun as you see it work. I think that I would program from Mayport to Norfolk as #1, then when you start FSX again, Norfolk to Gibralter as the next port of call etc. Do it in legs. I also programmed from NAS Alameda to Pearl Harbor the same way. It works. I quit experimenting when no one wanted to join me in my vCVW9 back 4 years ago. https://return.mistymoorings.com/faq/files/AI Boat Traffic for Dummies.pdf Here is your plan book to start with. Looking forward to you posting your results.

Awesome! Thanks so much, I'll definitely be checking it out!
(I'm imagining I'll skip the Norfolk to Gibraltar though, that'll take a few days won't it? )

Any idea where I can find an official ports of call for the cruise? The cruise book wasn't a ton of help. Perhaps it's accurate. I'm imagining Rome wasn't a port, but sailors did visit Rome (and Paris and the Swiss Alps???), but that seems a long way to travel for sailors on leave from Genoa to Rome while on duty/leave?

 

[Cees Donker]

Not sure what happened to Lazarus's stuff in the SOH Library?

And what happened to Lazarus himself? Hope he's doing allright?





Cees

 

[expat]

Yes, he has been a generous contributor and source of amusement here.

 

[FlyingsCool]

It seems he's left and taken his files with him? I haven't been able to find any of his contributions here.

 

[FlyingsCool]

Fixed up the two AD-5's. I still don't have positive identification of BuNo's for any of AD-5's on board.

It appears from one site there were only 3 each of the AD-5N and AD-5W on the boat. If anyone knows how to get the info I'd appreciate it.

A wing shot would be cool, too. From a couple of shots, the AD-5W's don't appear to have the modex on the wing. And I haven't seen any shots that show any identifying marks on the tail like the red stripe on the rudder tip for the other squadrons.

My attempt at the VAW-12 Logo from the cruise. Could use a little tidying up. But fine for the rez on the plane.

 

[Cees Donker]

It seems he's left and taken his files with him? I haven't been able to find any of his contributions here.

In case of need: I think I have most of his stuff on a drive.

Cees

 

[klnowak]

A bit off-topic - but I'm stoked about a Da Nang scenery ....

Back on topic ....

A bit off-topic : what it looks till now http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php/55148-FSX-Screenshots-Here!!?p=1218394&viewfull=1#post1218394 Back on topic

greetings
Klaus

 

[Mike71]

Fixed up the two AD-5's. I still don't have positive identification of BuNo's for any of AD-5's on board.

It appears from one site there were only 3 each of the AD-5N and AD-5W on the boat. If anyone knows how to get the info I'd appreciate it--

These types of squadrons were large, and formed various "dets" to deploy with various airwings. The dets were typically 3 or 4 planes depending on what was perceived to be the need by fleet commanders. In addition to "left -handed SPADs", you see this with KA-3B / EA-3B / RA-3 dets and HC helo dets (before the formation and integration of full-up HS ASW squadrons on carriers).

One has to ask exactly when in a work up cycle or deployment that these photos were taken; the det might have just been stood up, therefore markings, etc still in transition, and/or the planes may have come from a recent source such as a RAG, overhaul, etc. These large squadrons were always in a state of flux, often the "orphan children" whose assets were, unfortunately, low priority at times. I see this in recent times in the C-2 community.

I would do a search of the parent squadron as well as "cruise books" or ship histories to see if it might lead to something.

Every Navy ship (actually, virtually any Navy command) has to submit an annual report to CNO summarizing an unclassified history for the past year, etc. Publicly available, they are easily found by a web search.

 

[FlyingsCool]

These types of squadrons were large, and formed various "dets" to deploy with various airwings. The dets were typically 3 or 4 planes depending on what was perceived to be the need by fleet commanders. In addition to "left -handed SPADs", you see this with KA-3B / EA-3B / RA-3 dets and HC helo dets (before the formation and integration of full-up HS ASW squadrons on carriers).

One has to ask exactly when in a work up cycle or deployment that these photos were taken; the det might have just been stood up, therefore markings, etc still in transition, and/or the planes may have come from a recent source such as a RAG, overhaul, etc. These large squadrons were always in a state of flux, often the "orphan children" whose assets were, unfortunately, low priority at times. I see this in recent times in the C-2 community.

I would do a search of the parent squadron as well as "cruise books" or ship histories to see if it might lead to something.

Every Navy ship (actually, virtually any Navy command) has to submit an annual report to CNO summarizing an unclassified history for the past year, etc. Publicly available, they are easily found by a web search.

Cool Thanks. I didn't know about the CNO annual report.

I'll see what I can find about that for 1957 and 1958. The cruise began July, 12 1957, and ended March 5th 1958.

I've been slowly figuring this stuff out.

I've been getting most of my pictures from the cruise book I purchased here https://www.navysite.de/cruisebooks/cv42-57/index.html
It's available for viewing on the website, and pdf for purchase is decentish.

Photos and other info on the Roosevelt I found here from multiple sailors https://ussfranklindroosevelt.com/

And, then, as I'm collating my sources, I noticed from here VA(AW)-33 used SS instead of AL? Kind of makes sense given what you said above. Back to the drawing board...
Edit: Found another pic of an AD-5/AD-5N landing and it clearly has "AL" on the tail. Sadly, can't make out any other markings. This was the only cruise to use AL.

Although from the previous pic, 1327X4 looks to be pretty clearly an AD-5 or 5N, and it had "AL" on the tail. Unless that's a window painted on the rear shell of an AD-5W?
I wish that hat wasn't in the way As I noted, it could be either 132724 would be an AD-5, 132734 would be an AD-5W. The outer wing doesn't have any weapons mount points, so it could be AD-5W, but if it was an AD-5 hack, it probably wouldn't have them either? The VAW-12 (AD-5W) guys are in front of it, but that doesn't mean it's one of their planes. Did they ever paint a window on the rear shell of an AD-5W? I haven't seen that.
http://www.wings-aviation.ch/24-Naval-Wings/1948/CVG-17.htm

Then again, I just noticed 132687/132728 was cancelled from http://www.joebaugher.com/navy_serials/thirdseries15.html
So that would make it AD-5W 132734


Then finally this was the source for the realization of limited modexes http://www.gonavy.jp/CVG-CVG17.html

And then hours of searching photos in general from the internet an Squadron Signal books, etc...

 

[tgycgijoes]

Great Work

Great work and dedication. Really interesting and informative. Before my time so it's new to me (USN 1966-1972; NSCC 1981-1993)

 

[FlyingsCool]

Great work and dedication. Really interesting and informative. Before my time so it's new to me (USN 1966-1972; NSCC 1981-1993)

Thanks
It's fun, and I'm motivated.
I will eventually get back to getting my '57-ish Saufley ready for release, too.

 

[FlyingsCool]

As I'm sure you're all aware, this is the kind of thing you have to deal with in research...

VA-176 wasn't on the Roosevelt in 1958... it was VA-175, which was dissolved when the Roosevelt returned from the cruise, and which was the only time AL was on the tail plane of an AD-6. Also, the rudder wasn't red, nor were the wintips..., the top of the tail was, though, but it also had the modex up there, too, on the tip of the tail.

This photo was consistent with a bunch of others I found.

Granted, here, the red looks day-glo, so I'm still questioning if it's red or day-glo, but most of the rest of the good color photos of the cruise make it looks like insignia red, so I went with that. Red is really bad as a color for photos. It nearly is always different from the actual shade it was. Somebody told me once because of the silver I think in the film?

 

[FlyingsCool]

Oh, and I wanted to correct this.

Got the list from this source originally,
https://ussfranklindroosevelt.com/?page_id=13380

but it didn't click for me from the pictures from the cruise book that the modexes were reversed between VA(AW)-33 and VAW-12. So here's the corrected list. I had several pics of the modexes from VA(AW)-33, just no associated BuNo's.... And I ain't got nothin' on VAW-12 markings for this cruise other than blurry landing pictures and the Mickey Mouse logo I found yesterday in the cruise book photos, and the modex numbers used already cited, and the fact there was no modex on the wing, just AL (derr, I just realized I already knew it was AL).

Air Group CVG-17

100 VF-171 Aces F2H-3 Banshee - Razbam
200 VF-74 Be-Devilers F4D-1 Skyray - Virtavia <---Modified from texture originally done by Bruce Martin
300 VAH-3 Sea Dragons A3D-1 Skywarrior - Virtavia
400 VA-175 Devil's Diplomats AD-6 Skyraider - Tim Conrad A-1H
600 VFP-62 Fighting Photos F2H-3P Banshee - Razbam

VFP-62 Fighting Photos F9F-6P Panther <--While VFP-62 flew these at this period, too, there were not any on this particular cruise
​

701-703 VA(AW)-33 DET. 37 Night Hawks AD-5N - Razbam
801-803 VAW-12 DET. 37 Bats AD-5W Skyraider - Razbam
HU-2 DET. 37 Fleet Angels Piasecki HUP-2 - Jim Jacobson, Baldy

 

[tgycgijoes]

Virtual Air Group 17

When you are all done are you going to share all of this with us so that we can fly together? It IS possible to do this in CCP with Join FS or just JoinFS from a NAS and fly out to "Rosie". Navy Chief (Pete) and I did this off of Javier's Nimitz in A7 Corsair II's and also in Dino's E2 Hawkeye on a number of occasions and its a whole lot of fun. You can use different sims as well. When I reported aboard USS America CVA-66 in 1967 she had just gotten back from a Med Cruise and my bunkmate RD2 Bill H. had served aboard FDR on her last cruise.

 

[FlyingsCool]

When you are all done are you going to share all of this with us so that we can fly together? It IS possible to do this in CCP with Join FS or just JoinFS from a NAS and fly out to "Rosie". Navy Chief (Pete) and I did this off of Javier's Nimitz in A7 Corsair II's and also in Dino's E2 Hawkeye on a number of occasions and its a whole lot of fun. You can use different sims as well. When I reported aboard USS America CVA-66 in 1967 she had just gotten back from a Med Cruise and my bunkmate RD2 Bill H. had served aboard FDR on her last cruise.

Cool! Yes, that's the plan

I hope to finish the paints up by next week and release those. Then I'll need to work on the cruise portion, and the boat as long as Lazarus and the Virtual Navy folk are amenable to my releasing the ship I've been working on.

Edit: Oh, and I plan on making multiple skins for each plane