London-Melbourne 2014: 119 Piccadilly
- Thread starter MM
- Start date
MM
Charter Member
A frantic first day with may aircraft in the air all at once. At the Club's desks, we on staff were kept busy compiling the reports from our observers in the field. We had several incidents that need some attention. Perhaps this may not be as easy as I had hoped…
Up the circular staircase, climbing heavily as I clutched a manila folder full of telegrams. They didn't shoot the messenger from Marathon, did they?
I knocked, entered, and gingerly handed Miss Nellie the bundle of problems. She looked at her watch, sighed, and commenced to read the first case.
After a while, she motioned for me to sit down.
Miss Nellie firmly pushed the report across the desktop toward my seat. I lifted it and slowly returned to cable the decisions to the racing community. This is going to be a learning experience, I optimistically thought.
Up the circular staircase, climbing heavily as I clutched a manila folder full of telegrams. They didn't shoot the messenger from Marathon, did they?
I knocked, entered, and gingerly handed Miss Nellie the bundle of problems. She looked at her watch, sighed, and commenced to read the first case.
After a while, she motioned for me to sit down.
1. First, the straightforward falcon409 crash on landing at Rome's LIRA. (EGUN-LIRA) This was apparently due to a scenery anomaly. While expressing our sympathies, there is little that the staff can do to change the result.
Ruling. The first crash-on-landing is a simple 15 minute penalty.
2. Willy had the dreaded "Duenna forgets to pick up the baton" experience. (LFPB-LFML) According to the pilot's testimony, the "Autoarm" button was ticked but the program did not do as expected. A glitch of course, but then it is the responsibility of the pilot to get the Duenna running properly. Happily, in this instance the pilot remembered to take a screenshot of his "Flight Analysis Screen" which can, in some circumstances, serve as a substitute for the Duenna. The young man is lucky on this instance as everything indicates that all was well with the flight. Be he should not believe that he can continue repeating this mistake.
(It should be noted that we have one pilot who cannot make the Duenna work on his machine. We are allowing him to substitute the Flight Analysis Screen for the Duenna simply because his computer will not cooperate. His special circumstance is distinct from the normal pilot who forgets to engage the Duenna or has a Duenna malfunction.)
Ruling. We shall accept the Screen Analysis screenshot in this instance. The leg stands.
3. Ron Attwood had two problems. (YMEN-YBCV) The first was an Out of Memory error (OOM) as he departed Essendon while using the Orbx scenery. This experience led to the NOTAM recommending that pilots using the full-fat Orbx Australia be sure to turn down their scenery settings when departing from or arriving at Essendon. Being a computer-only problem, the pilot simply reported the incident and restarted the leg. A non-event.
The second problem is a computer-controller glitch en route. At one moment, when the pilot was shifting from the internal view to the external view (using a programmed button on his controller), the aircraft surprising refilled the tanks with fuel. Those on the scene attest to the pilot's shock and puzzlement. A close examination of the Duenna confirms the report. The accidental refueling, in this case, did not have an impact on the nature of the leg, which was much shorter than the aircraft's full-fuel range. Seeing no possible competitive advantage, and accepting the testimony of the witnesses, we rule that this was one of those computer glitches that do not present any difficulty. Note, however, that this glitch cannot continue to plague the run. The pilot should make an effort to understand why the "view shift" button produced a refueling with this particular aircraft. He should effect a remedy.
Ruling. The leg stands as filed.
4. Spartan pilot spokes2112 reported a crash-on-landing on his arrival at Athens LGTT. (EGUN-LGTT) (He is using the Jaap van Hees vintage MacRobertson scenery.) Verbal testimony at the time, using vigorous language, indicated that the pilot had hit a building in the darkness. The Duenna record shows the pilot in the process of landing at the field, some 40 feet above the runway. The leg had been completed and the pilot was in the final circuit. This is a crash-on-landing.
Note that this "final circuit" or a "short finals" are distinct from a descent or "distant" approach, say several miles out, in which a pilot might hit a mountainside. This second situation is a "mid-air" incident rather than a "crash-on-landing" and carries a more consequential penalty (1 hour penalty plus the need to re-fly the leg).
Ruling. The first crash-on-landing is a simple 15 minute penalty.
5. Beech Boy 2 jt_dub experienced a computer failure but was able to persist. While en route, flying on multiplayer, he was cut from the server. Both FSX and the Duenna froze. Eventually, FSX restarted as though it were normal. The Duenna asked if the pilot would like to continue offline and he replied in the affirmative. The leg continued and was ended successfully with the Duenna tracking the event throughout. The Duenna record does show when the real time weather ended and when it restarted.
The evidence is entirely consistent with the pilot's report. The pilot will have lost a few minutes' time when his FSX was frozen. But the implied invalid leg is entirely explained by the events.
Ruling. The pilot has the option of re-flying the leg or accepting the slightly less optimal leg as it stands. (The pilot has indicated that he will accept the finished leg.) The pilot should not worry about it.
6. Pilot falcon409 has shifted aircraft from the Flying Stations Mew Gull to the Spartan Executive. This is fine. He should inform the staff as to which Spartan Executive he has chosen. (The Milton Shupe FS9 version ported to FSX or the FSNW (authorized) translation of the Shupe Spartan into native-FSX format? Note that the two aircraft have slightly different Handicap Allowances.
Ruling. The pilot may switch aircraft. The only consequence is that the entry is not eligible to win a prize. The pilot understands this.
Ruling. The first crash-on-landing is a simple 15 minute penalty.
2. Willy had the dreaded "Duenna forgets to pick up the baton" experience. (LFPB-LFML) According to the pilot's testimony, the "Autoarm" button was ticked but the program did not do as expected. A glitch of course, but then it is the responsibility of the pilot to get the Duenna running properly. Happily, in this instance the pilot remembered to take a screenshot of his "Flight Analysis Screen" which can, in some circumstances, serve as a substitute for the Duenna. The young man is lucky on this instance as everything indicates that all was well with the flight. Be he should not believe that he can continue repeating this mistake.
(It should be noted that we have one pilot who cannot make the Duenna work on his machine. We are allowing him to substitute the Flight Analysis Screen for the Duenna simply because his computer will not cooperate. His special circumstance is distinct from the normal pilot who forgets to engage the Duenna or has a Duenna malfunction.)
Ruling. We shall accept the Screen Analysis screenshot in this instance. The leg stands.
3. Ron Attwood had two problems. (YMEN-YBCV) The first was an Out of Memory error (OOM) as he departed Essendon while using the Orbx scenery. This experience led to the NOTAM recommending that pilots using the full-fat Orbx Australia be sure to turn down their scenery settings when departing from or arriving at Essendon. Being a computer-only problem, the pilot simply reported the incident and restarted the leg. A non-event.
The second problem is a computer-controller glitch en route. At one moment, when the pilot was shifting from the internal view to the external view (using a programmed button on his controller), the aircraft surprising refilled the tanks with fuel. Those on the scene attest to the pilot's shock and puzzlement. A close examination of the Duenna confirms the report. The accidental refueling, in this case, did not have an impact on the nature of the leg, which was much shorter than the aircraft's full-fuel range. Seeing no possible competitive advantage, and accepting the testimony of the witnesses, we rule that this was one of those computer glitches that do not present any difficulty. Note, however, that this glitch cannot continue to plague the run. The pilot should make an effort to understand why the "view shift" button produced a refueling with this particular aircraft. He should effect a remedy.
Ruling. The leg stands as filed.
4. Spartan pilot spokes2112 reported a crash-on-landing on his arrival at Athens LGTT. (EGUN-LGTT) (He is using the Jaap van Hees vintage MacRobertson scenery.) Verbal testimony at the time, using vigorous language, indicated that the pilot had hit a building in the darkness. The Duenna record shows the pilot in the process of landing at the field, some 40 feet above the runway. The leg had been completed and the pilot was in the final circuit. This is a crash-on-landing.
Note that this "final circuit" or a "short finals" are distinct from a descent or "distant" approach, say several miles out, in which a pilot might hit a mountainside. This second situation is a "mid-air" incident rather than a "crash-on-landing" and carries a more consequential penalty (1 hour penalty plus the need to re-fly the leg).
Ruling. The first crash-on-landing is a simple 15 minute penalty.
5. Beech Boy 2 jt_dub experienced a computer failure but was able to persist. While en route, flying on multiplayer, he was cut from the server. Both FSX and the Duenna froze. Eventually, FSX restarted as though it were normal. The Duenna asked if the pilot would like to continue offline and he replied in the affirmative. The leg continued and was ended successfully with the Duenna tracking the event throughout. The Duenna record does show when the real time weather ended and when it restarted.
The evidence is entirely consistent with the pilot's report. The pilot will have lost a few minutes' time when his FSX was frozen. But the implied invalid leg is entirely explained by the events.
Ruling. The pilot has the option of re-flying the leg or accepting the slightly less optimal leg as it stands. (The pilot has indicated that he will accept the finished leg.) The pilot should not worry about it.
6. Pilot falcon409 has shifted aircraft from the Flying Stations Mew Gull to the Spartan Executive. This is fine. He should inform the staff as to which Spartan Executive he has chosen. (The Milton Shupe FS9 version ported to FSX or the FSNW (authorized) translation of the Shupe Spartan into native-FSX format? Note that the two aircraft have slightly different Handicap Allowances.
Ruling. The pilot may switch aircraft. The only consequence is that the entry is not eligible to win a prize. The pilot understands this.
Miss Nellie firmly pushed the report across the desktop toward my seat. I lifted it and slowly returned to cable the decisions to the racing community. This is going to be a learning experience, I optimistically thought.
Ron Attwood
Members +
I can confirm that the pilot now understands (sort of) the reason for the button anomaly. He inadvertently assigned said button whilst in the middle of a brain fart! A remedy has been effected and no more such incidences will occur.
Thank you for your forbearance.
MM
Charter Member
Lucky to have caught Miss Nellie on her way out to tea. Showed her a couple of telegrams. She took a quick look and gave her blessing. "Tell the young men to keep up the excellent flying."
She turned, paused for a moment, and looked back. "Congratulate the lad flying the Lancair for fixing his technical problems."
Good flying, gentlemen.
She turned, paused for a moment, and looked back. "Congratulate the lad flying the Lancair for fixing his technical problems."
1. JimmyRFR. The crash on landing is normal and the standard "repairs" penalty is in effect. The flight above the soft ceiling is fine. Miss Nellie sends a personal note hoping that you enjoyed your scenic tour of the Alps. You should depart for Athens at your own convenience.
2. SkippyBing. Your incident in the storms over Turkey is understandable. The evidence indicates that you were cruising well below the soft ceiling when the storm temporarily pushed you over the limit. You immediately returned to the lower cruise altitude. All is good.
(Note that the ruling would have been decidedly different had you cruised for a half-hour while over the ceiling. You did make a timely adjustment to the excursion over the limit.)
2. SkippyBing. Your incident in the storms over Turkey is understandable. The evidence indicates that you were cruising well below the soft ceiling when the storm temporarily pushed you over the limit. You immediately returned to the lower cruise altitude. All is good.
(Note that the ruling would have been decidedly different had you cruised for a half-hour while over the ceiling. You did make a timely adjustment to the excursion over the limit.)
Good flying, gentlemen.
paiken
SOH-CM-2023
Clarification requested
During my first leg between Essendon and Charleville, my FSX installation froze up and would not recover. I'm not sure if I should score this as a "bail out" or not. Could you please check with the rules committee (or Miss Nellie, but only if she's in a good mood) and let me know. I've read the rules regarding bail out's, but the rules made no specific mention about the program not responding. Thank you.
Patrick
During my first leg between Essendon and Charleville, my FSX installation froze up and would not recover. I'm not sure if I should score this as a "bail out" or not. Could you please check with the rules committee (or Miss Nellie, but only if she's in a good mood) and let me know. I've read the rules regarding bail out's, but the rules made no specific mention about the program not responding. Thank you.
Patrick
MM
Charter Member
Hi Patrick. If you have a computer problem, you simply abandon the leg and start over. No bailout. No penalty. Just note the event in your thread and nothing gets added to your logbook. (It is as though the event did not happen.)
Note that the "computer froze up" situation is different from the "my wife insisted that I go to that wedding" event. The latter is a "bail out" for our virtual race...and perhaps more in real life.
Note that the "computer froze up" situation is different from the "my wife insisted that I go to that wedding" event. The latter is a "bail out" for our virtual race...and perhaps more in real life.
manfredc3
SOH-CM-2022
Splitting up legs???
I have a question for the committee.....
This weekend I was not able to make the full leg from Mildenhall to Marseille.
I do not want to cheat, so is it allowed to make a partial flight, like Mildenhall to Paris, and then Paris to Marseille the next day?
I have a question for the committee.....
This weekend I was not able to make the full leg from Mildenhall to Marseille.
I do not want to cheat, so is it allowed to make a partial flight, like Mildenhall to Paris, and then Paris to Marseille the next day?
You can certainly land in Paris as it is listed as an unofficial airport. Keep in mind though that the cost in time goes up.
From the rules:
* Additional Listed Unofficial Airports from the 1930s. These are contemporary airports with good facilities. However, the RAeC will not have prepared the local officials and airport staff nor will they have RAeC officials on hand to expedite matters. It will take additional time for the landing pilot to find and engage the airport maintenance personnel, to negotiate with the local government officials, and to arrange the appropriate payments. Refueling stops will take longer than at the RAeC official control or checking points: 90 minutes rather than 45 minutes.
From the rules:
* Additional Listed Unofficial Airports from the 1930s. These are contemporary airports with good facilities. However, the RAeC will not have prepared the local officials and airport staff nor will they have RAeC officials on hand to expedite matters. It will take additional time for the landing pilot to find and engage the airport maintenance personnel, to negotiate with the local government officials, and to arrange the appropriate payments. Refueling stops will take longer than at the RAeC official control or checking points: 90 minutes rather than 45 minutes.
spokes2112
Charter Member
RE: Spartan Crash @ Tatoi AB
New facts have come in. During the time the pilot was in the hospital the Greek Aviation Authority & Local Police did a thorough investigation into what caused the crash into the southernmost hangar at Tatoi AB. Reports from the Police state that during interviews with local inhabitants that at no time was the aircraft anywhere near an established approach and may have been lost. One such statement reported that the aircraft made a right turn towards Tatoi AB while flying very low to the ground just prior to hitting the hangar. The Greek Aviation Authority officially is reporting the cause as "Loss of Spatial Orientation" & "Controlled Flight into Ground".
The final report lists that the aircraft had 22 lbs of fuel left and the accident occurred at 19:55 Local time.
The pilot requests that the 15 minute penalty be rescinded and replaced with a 1:00 penalty. The pilot also requests using the "crash option" adding an additional 1 hour penalty. The crash option flight would take off from LGEL Elefsis AB or LGTG Tanagra AB @ 19:55 local with no more than 22 lbs of fuel on board.
Of course this option would have to be reviewed by Ms. Nellie as being a valid request.
Attached - Official crash reports.
View attachment LGTT Crash Report.zip
New facts have come in. During the time the pilot was in the hospital the Greek Aviation Authority & Local Police did a thorough investigation into what caused the crash into the southernmost hangar at Tatoi AB. Reports from the Police state that during interviews with local inhabitants that at no time was the aircraft anywhere near an established approach and may have been lost. One such statement reported that the aircraft made a right turn towards Tatoi AB while flying very low to the ground just prior to hitting the hangar. The Greek Aviation Authority officially is reporting the cause as "Loss of Spatial Orientation" & "Controlled Flight into Ground".
The final report lists that the aircraft had 22 lbs of fuel left and the accident occurred at 19:55 Local time.
The pilot requests that the 15 minute penalty be rescinded and replaced with a 1:00 penalty. The pilot also requests using the "crash option" adding an additional 1 hour penalty. The crash option flight would take off from LGEL Elefsis AB or LGTG Tanagra AB @ 19:55 local with no more than 22 lbs of fuel on board.
Of course this option would have to be reviewed by Ms. Nellie as being a valid request.
Attached - Official crash reports.
View attachment LGTT Crash Report.zip
If a pilot wanted to fly say the Puss Moth or any of the other range challenged aircraft that actually flew in the real race ... could consideration be made for fueling besides at only the prepared airports that are in the Official Control or Checking Point List?
Could the pilot maybe submit for approval a list of specified airports from the Unofficial Airports List that would allow covering these spans prior to starting the event and perhaps be held to those airports only without additional minutes added and no consideration if an alternate had to be used?
"My Hildegard" may not make it to Marseille without some pretty stiff tailwinds and there are five more legs that are questionable if not impossible for it to make.
How in the world could young Jimmy make it back home in 2nd place (Handicapped) to a DC-2 .... [the only solo pilot to finish BTW] ... with all those bloomin' penalty (doubled) minutes?
Sorry for jumping in late.
Jimmy's Puss Moth was a flying gas can. The back seat was replaced with tanks (normal happens even today to ferry planes from US to Europe via Iceland). In our last Melbourne Event which was run shortly after Milton released the Puss Moth. Fliger747 had released a modified aircraft.cfg file with the appropriate tanks to simulate Jimmy's flight. This was an approved modification for that race.
I have to look at my backup of FS at home later I don't have the Puss Moth installed anymore. I will post the aircraft.cfg file and the committee can decide if they want to approve it. That is if I can find it.
One thing to note though she was very heavy and need a lot of runway to takeoff.
During our last Melbourne event some of my longer flights were 14hrs long.
Great Ozzie
Charter Member
I'm just looking at what we did in 2009... Dave, you and I had a flight longer than the "std" tanks.
http://fs-duenna.com/flights/ListFlights.php?detail=ac&value=DH80+Puss+Moth+Melrose
Here's what I have from that section of the aircraft.cfg.
------------------------------
//----- 436 miles tanks -----//
LeftMain = 0, -2.1, 1.5, 26.5, 0
RightMain = 0, 2.1, 1.5, 26.5, 0
//----- 570 miles tanks -----//
//range 285 miles/tank = 570 miles
//LeftMain = 0, -2.1, 1.5, 34.5, 0
//RightMain = 0, 2.1, 1.5, 34.5, 0
//----- 700 miles tanks -----//
//range 350 miles/tank = 700 miles
//LeftMain = 0, -2.1, 1.5, 42.5, 0
//RightMain = 0, 2.1, 1.5, 42.5, 0
//----- 1300 miles tanks -----//
//range 650 miles/tank = 1300 miles
//LeftMain = 0, -2.1, 1.5, 80, 0
//RightMain = 0, 2.1, 1.5, 80, 0
http://fs-duenna.com/flights/ListFlights.php?detail=ac&value=DH80+Puss+Moth+Melrose
Here's what I have from that section of the aircraft.cfg.
------------------------------
//----- 436 miles tanks -----//
LeftMain = 0, -2.1, 1.5, 26.5, 0
RightMain = 0, 2.1, 1.5, 26.5, 0
//----- 570 miles tanks -----//
//range 285 miles/tank = 570 miles
//LeftMain = 0, -2.1, 1.5, 34.5, 0
//RightMain = 0, 2.1, 1.5, 34.5, 0
//----- 700 miles tanks -----//
//range 350 miles/tank = 700 miles
//LeftMain = 0, -2.1, 1.5, 42.5, 0
//RightMain = 0, 2.1, 1.5, 42.5, 0
//----- 1300 miles tanks -----//
//range 650 miles/tank = 1300 miles
//LeftMain = 0, -2.1, 1.5, 80, 0
//RightMain = 0, 2.1, 1.5, 80, 0
falcon409
SOH-CM-2022
While I was never an "Official Entrant" for the London to Melbourne Race, I am "Officially" removing myself from any further consideration in regard to legs flown, or aircraft changes. After three consecutive crashes due to rwy lights with crash boxes, an entire flight where the weather service for FSrealWX_lite was unavailable and a sim lockup this morning after 30 minutes of flight. . .the handwriting on the wall is quite evident. Good luck to the competing pilots!
I must have had the 1300 mile tanks installed.
http://fs-duenna.com/flights/ListFl...e=Dangerousdave&value2=&race=0&live=0&p=4&p=5
Notice one of my flights was 1,351 nm long and 17 hrs 50 minutes.
Now thats a leg.
That install of FS I had the puss moth in is history. The backup drive is non responsive. it was an install of FS9 dedicated to RTWR it had few extras in it to keep it lean. I never backed it up anywhere else. Which is fine.
flyon
Charter Member
You're still flying P3D, right?
I'm in the same "never an "Official Entrant" for the London to Melbourne Race" category, flying in P3D myself. I would like to know there is at least one other P3D flyer out here in this event...
That alone not withstanding, you went and did all that duenna P3D testing for this event, and you're gonna just up and quit now? BS Ed.
Who else here knows P3D better? No one imo.
You're the P3D authority on this site in my book. Please reconsider... illegitimi non carborundum
MM
Charter Member
This message responds to the request of spokes2112 for an adjustment of the ruling concerning his arrival at LGTT on 10-25-14. He asks for a one-hour penalty rather than a 15 minute penalty. And, having asked for a mid-air crash penalty, he also asks that the corresponding normal complete re-flying of the leg be substituted by a flight from a nearby field under the same conditions as the original incident.
I took the wire, along with the associated police report and witness accounts, up to Miss Nellie. She seemed a bit surprised at the request, but took the reports and got on the phone to Slipstick Williams and his accident investigation team. Several hours later, she sent down the following response.
Thus, we regret to inform the pilot that his special request is not accepted.
(When I got back down to the staff room, one of the smart guys there observed that, while the Committee could not impose a different penalty, the pilot could. He could simply start his Duenna and record an additional 45 minutes on the clock before actually taking off on the next leg. Personally, I would recommend that the pilot abide by the Committee's ruling and not attempt to take matters into his own hands.)
I took the wire, along with the associated police report and witness accounts, up to Miss Nellie. She seemed a bit surprised at the request, but took the reports and got on the phone to Slipstick Williams and his accident investigation team. Several hours later, she sent down the following response.
Tell the young man that his request has received considerable attention. A careful reassessment of the claim and the associated materials led to a second investigation of the incident. The facts suggest the following.
The pilot intended to land at Athens Tatoi (LGTT) at night (at 18:55 GMT or 21:55 EEST local summer time) on October 25, 2014. [This is the Jaap van Hees 1934 scenery, located slightly to the west of modern LGTT.] The aerodrome has a relatively short hard runway with faint outline lighting. In darkness, the aircraft approached the field downwind from the southwest, flying northeast not quite parallel with the runway, and made a slow and gentle descent (59-62kts and -66 to -280fpm) for about 30 seconds as it neared the grounds. Then, in the last five seconds, the descent increased (to -385fpm and to -468fpm) and the aircraft hit Tatoi's southwest hangar.
The airport stands at 784 feet asl. The aircraft was last flying at 835'. Our on-scene forensics suggest that, a second later, it clipped the top of the hangar at 827'. (There will be minor differences of perhaps 6 feet in actual altitude and that of the aircraft's center point.) The airspeed, just before the crash, was consistent with a landing attempt. However, the contact occurred 0.1nm from the runway (though only one hundred feet from the grass field).
The police report notes that eyewitnesses believed that the pilot may have been disoriented. Our investigation, which includes reports from those listening in on radio chatter, corroborates in the sense that the pilot's description immediately afterwards indicated complete surprise. His comments suggested that he was circling to land and hit the hangar in complete darkness. The direction of the flight was across the runway rather than on line with it. (Although the grass field accommodates directional flexibility for landing.)
The sudden descent and drop in altitude further indicate disorientation. The aircraft was flying downwind just at or just below stall speed. The vertical flight path, with its sudden departure, is consistent with either a sudden downdraft or an accelerated/turning stall. In either case, the pilot was exhibiting poor judgment if his intent was to execute a landing pattern in darkness.
The evidence is technically consistent with a completed flight with a crash on landing. Had the pilot safely landed at the crash point, it would have been registered a valid leg. (The Duenna usually allows more than a mile leeway in what it counts as "on airport".) The hard evidence of airspeed and direction and descent speed are consistent with a final approach for landing. The verbal reports, however, indicate some pilot disorientation in the middle of a landing pattern.
For purposes of the penalty to be assessed, this incident illustrates a not-quite-standard version of a "crash-on-landing." The rule's intent is to recognize a crash when making a landing after a long leg has been (almost) fully completed. The relatively modest penalty aims to minimize the "racing cost" of a single incident that can arise from the first mistake on landing. (The penalty is 15 minutes for the first incident, 30 minutes for the second, and one hour for further incidents.) The rule also covers hitting a tree or a berm on the threshold or a crash landing a few hundred yards short of the field. This incident is to be distinguished from a crash due to running out of fuel, or flight into a mountain, or breakup in midair due to structural stress on the airframe. (Or, as one analyst suggested, hitting a duck.) For example, crashing into a mountainside 10 miles from the destination is a full-penalty mid-air crash. Crashing into a hangar on the field is a crash-on-landing.
The Committee acknowledges that the pilot believes that he was not landing and that a new flight, from a nearby field under the same conditions and the same fuel load, would constitute a demonstration of a completion to a safe landing.
The Committee recognizes that the pilot is likely to have been executing a pattern rather than actually landing. His maneuvers at low altitude show poor situational awareness and poor airmanship. However, the pilot had fully completed the leg's distance and was in the process of landing, for which pattern work is integral. The incident occurred on the field. It is covered by the intent of the crash-on-landing rule. There is no need to invent a new solution to the problem.
Ruling. The pilot's request is denied. The previous ruling stands. The pilot is deemed to have crashed on landing. The penalty is 15 minutes for the first such pilot error.
The pilot intended to land at Athens Tatoi (LGTT) at night (at 18:55 GMT or 21:55 EEST local summer time) on October 25, 2014. [This is the Jaap van Hees 1934 scenery, located slightly to the west of modern LGTT.] The aerodrome has a relatively short hard runway with faint outline lighting. In darkness, the aircraft approached the field downwind from the southwest, flying northeast not quite parallel with the runway, and made a slow and gentle descent (59-62kts and -66 to -280fpm) for about 30 seconds as it neared the grounds. Then, in the last five seconds, the descent increased (to -385fpm and to -468fpm) and the aircraft hit Tatoi's southwest hangar.
The airport stands at 784 feet asl. The aircraft was last flying at 835'. Our on-scene forensics suggest that, a second later, it clipped the top of the hangar at 827'. (There will be minor differences of perhaps 6 feet in actual altitude and that of the aircraft's center point.) The airspeed, just before the crash, was consistent with a landing attempt. However, the contact occurred 0.1nm from the runway (though only one hundred feet from the grass field).
The police report notes that eyewitnesses believed that the pilot may have been disoriented. Our investigation, which includes reports from those listening in on radio chatter, corroborates in the sense that the pilot's description immediately afterwards indicated complete surprise. His comments suggested that he was circling to land and hit the hangar in complete darkness. The direction of the flight was across the runway rather than on line with it. (Although the grass field accommodates directional flexibility for landing.)
The sudden descent and drop in altitude further indicate disorientation. The aircraft was flying downwind just at or just below stall speed. The vertical flight path, with its sudden departure, is consistent with either a sudden downdraft or an accelerated/turning stall. In either case, the pilot was exhibiting poor judgment if his intent was to execute a landing pattern in darkness.
The evidence is technically consistent with a completed flight with a crash on landing. Had the pilot safely landed at the crash point, it would have been registered a valid leg. (The Duenna usually allows more than a mile leeway in what it counts as "on airport".) The hard evidence of airspeed and direction and descent speed are consistent with a final approach for landing. The verbal reports, however, indicate some pilot disorientation in the middle of a landing pattern.
For purposes of the penalty to be assessed, this incident illustrates a not-quite-standard version of a "crash-on-landing." The rule's intent is to recognize a crash when making a landing after a long leg has been (almost) fully completed. The relatively modest penalty aims to minimize the "racing cost" of a single incident that can arise from the first mistake on landing. (The penalty is 15 minutes for the first incident, 30 minutes for the second, and one hour for further incidents.) The rule also covers hitting a tree or a berm on the threshold or a crash landing a few hundred yards short of the field. This incident is to be distinguished from a crash due to running out of fuel, or flight into a mountain, or breakup in midair due to structural stress on the airframe. (Or, as one analyst suggested, hitting a duck.) For example, crashing into a mountainside 10 miles from the destination is a full-penalty mid-air crash. Crashing into a hangar on the field is a crash-on-landing.
The Committee acknowledges that the pilot believes that he was not landing and that a new flight, from a nearby field under the same conditions and the same fuel load, would constitute a demonstration of a completion to a safe landing.
The Committee recognizes that the pilot is likely to have been executing a pattern rather than actually landing. His maneuvers at low altitude show poor situational awareness and poor airmanship. However, the pilot had fully completed the leg's distance and was in the process of landing, for which pattern work is integral. The incident occurred on the field. It is covered by the intent of the crash-on-landing rule. There is no need to invent a new solution to the problem.
Ruling. The pilot's request is denied. The previous ruling stands. The pilot is deemed to have crashed on landing. The penalty is 15 minutes for the first such pilot error.
Thus, we regret to inform the pilot that his special request is not accepted.
(When I got back down to the staff room, one of the smart guys there observed that, while the Committee could not impose a different penalty, the pilot could. He could simply start his Duenna and record an additional 45 minutes on the clock before actually taking off on the next leg. Personally, I would recommend that the pilot abide by the Committee's ruling and not attempt to take matters into his own hands.)
Willy
Administrator
I completed the flight from OIBB to OIZJ, bounced/rolled to a stop and to my amazement, I had a red duenna. The text file indicates 2 errors. There was no crash (although I did land on the sand next to the runway) and nothing else that I can see would cause an error. However, I did access the flight planner twice during the flight. In the original flight plan, I had included a ndb waypoint that as I got near the first one (LAR in the mountains) I decided the final one would be unnecessary. I first accessed the default flight planner and decided to not make the change. A few minutes later, I changed my mind, reaccessed the flight plan and removed the last ndb waypoint. I then saved the plan, clicked no to going back to the start point and continued the flight.
Errors:
30.10.2014 14:52:54z Warning: FS unavailable
30.10.2014 15:10:23z ERROR NEW: [Same A/C]
30.10.2014 15:10:23z AT N 27* 46.1' / E 54* 11.0' at 9334ft GS:220kts, IAS:182kts, VS:-122ft/min
30.10.2014 15:10:23z STATE
30.10.2014 15:10:23z AIRCRAFT / Counter 0
30.10.2014 15:10:23z
30.10.2014 15:10:24z ERROR RESOLVED: [Same A/C] (Duration 00:00:01)
30.10.2014 15:10:24z AT N 27* 46.1' / E 54* 11.0' at 9334ft GS:220kts, IAS:182kts, VS:-122ft/min
30.10.2014 15:10:24z STATE
30.10.2014 15:10:24z AIRCRAFT GeeBee_Model Z Merc Air / Counter 1
30.10.2014 15:10:24z
30.10.2014 15:13:39z ERROR NEW: [Same A/C]
30.10.2014 15:13:39z AT N 27* 42.3' / E 54* 18.8' at 9322ft GS:219kts, IAS:181kts, VS:0ft/min
30.10.2014 15:13:39z STATE
30.10.2014 15:13:39z AIRCRAFT GeeBee_Model Z Merc Air / Counter 0
30.10.2014 15:13:39z
30.10.2014 15:13:40z ERROR RESOLVED: [Same A/C] (Duration 00:00:01)
30.10.2014 15:13:40z AT N 27* 42.3' / E 54* 18.8' at 9322ft GS:219kts, IAS:181kts, VS:0ft/min
30.10.2014 15:13:40z STATE
30.10.2014 15:13:40z AIRCRAFT GeeBee_Model Z Merc Air / Counter 1
30.10.2014 15:13:40z
I'm attaching the text file for Miss Nellie's perusal.
Errors:
30.10.2014 14:52:54z Warning: FS unavailable
30.10.2014 15:10:23z ERROR NEW: [Same A/C]
30.10.2014 15:10:23z AT N 27* 46.1' / E 54* 11.0' at 9334ft GS:220kts, IAS:182kts, VS:-122ft/min
30.10.2014 15:10:23z STATE
30.10.2014 15:10:23z AIRCRAFT / Counter 0
30.10.2014 15:10:23z
30.10.2014 15:10:24z ERROR RESOLVED: [Same A/C] (Duration 00:00:01)
30.10.2014 15:10:24z AT N 27* 46.1' / E 54* 11.0' at 9334ft GS:220kts, IAS:182kts, VS:-122ft/min
30.10.2014 15:10:24z STATE
30.10.2014 15:10:24z AIRCRAFT GeeBee_Model Z Merc Air / Counter 1
30.10.2014 15:10:24z
30.10.2014 15:13:39z ERROR NEW: [Same A/C]
30.10.2014 15:13:39z AT N 27* 42.3' / E 54* 18.8' at 9322ft GS:219kts, IAS:181kts, VS:0ft/min
30.10.2014 15:13:39z STATE
30.10.2014 15:13:39z AIRCRAFT GeeBee_Model Z Merc Air / Counter 0
30.10.2014 15:13:39z
30.10.2014 15:13:40z ERROR RESOLVED: [Same A/C] (Duration 00:00:01)
30.10.2014 15:13:40z AT N 27* 42.3' / E 54* 18.8' at 9322ft GS:219kts, IAS:181kts, VS:0ft/min
30.10.2014 15:13:40z STATE
30.10.2014 15:13:40z AIRCRAFT GeeBee_Model Z Merc Air / Counter 1
30.10.2014 15:13:40z
I'm attaching the text file for Miss Nellie's perusal.
MM
Charter Member
We received a sealed packet from our counterparts in Paris. Looks like someone had to make another trip upstairs…but no one volunteered. After a few minutes of standoff, I sheepishly agreed to go.
Miss Nellie was busy with a series of calculations when I knocked. "An international incident?" she asked as she took a quick glance a the yellow sheet with the ominous header Deuxième Bureau. Happily, it was from the less worrisome police de l’Air.
Back down to the staff room to send a couple of wires.
Miss Nellie was busy with a series of calculations when I knocked. "An international incident?" she asked as she took a quick glance a the yellow sheet with the ominous header Deuxième Bureau. Happily, it was from the less worrisome police de l’Air.
Apparently, the DC-2 pilot manfredc3 landed near the aerodrome at Paris Le Bourget (LFPB). He came down in the countryside near the commune of Noissy-en-France about 8 kilometers northeast of the airfield. He had to walk to the airport and convince two local members of the maintenance staff to work overtime and drive their trucks over to the landing spot and refuel the aircraft. Apparently there was some cheese, bread, and good wine involved in the negotiations. While eventually successful, the whole affair took a bit longer than the pilot realized.
There seems to be some question about how this foreign pilot was able to clear the regulations at Le Bourget without getting his passport stamped by the appropriate officials. The government asked that the pilot report to police headquarters in Paris immediately.
Happily, our colleagues at the RAeC and Whitehall were able to smooth matters and convince the government to revoke the arrest orders. It is helpful to have worldly supporters who have relations with other governments. The pilot should proceed and need not worry about the army at Aleppo.
In all the confusion, the pilot wants to account for the additional Ground Time associated with his afternoon with the refuelers. Instead of 1:30:00, the time should be 2:30:00. (In the Golden Age, LFPG is not on the "list" -- and of course did not exist in the 1930s.)
Inform the pilot that he evinced ingenuity in getting those French maintenance personnel to leave their station and work outside the official regulations. Let him know that we were able to keep him out of jail … this time.
And wish him well on his journey.
…
Oh, please tell the Gee Bee pilot Willy that Slipstick Williams has completed his investigation and that all is well. Apparently, in accessing the "menu" of his aircraft he triggered a momentary glitch in the Duenna. No problems here.
There seems to be some question about how this foreign pilot was able to clear the regulations at Le Bourget without getting his passport stamped by the appropriate officials. The government asked that the pilot report to police headquarters in Paris immediately.
Happily, our colleagues at the RAeC and Whitehall were able to smooth matters and convince the government to revoke the arrest orders. It is helpful to have worldly supporters who have relations with other governments. The pilot should proceed and need not worry about the army at Aleppo.
In all the confusion, the pilot wants to account for the additional Ground Time associated with his afternoon with the refuelers. Instead of 1:30:00, the time should be 2:30:00. (In the Golden Age, LFPG is not on the "list" -- and of course did not exist in the 1930s.)
Inform the pilot that he evinced ingenuity in getting those French maintenance personnel to leave their station and work outside the official regulations. Let him know that we were able to keep him out of jail … this time.
And wish him well on his journey.
…
Oh, please tell the Gee Bee pilot Willy that Slipstick Williams has completed his investigation and that all is well. Apparently, in accessing the "menu" of his aircraft he triggered a momentary glitch in the Duenna. No problems here.
Back down to the staff room to send a couple of wires.