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MiG-21F13 released

peter12213 said:
I also love the new GDR repaint really good!
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Thanks. :)

The RSKANON loadout tool is a really good feature too, I don't know why but I always seem to configure this Jet for a ground attack sortie the opposite to what she was designed for don't know why I always drop that centre tank after take off too (thats why in some shots you see mine without one!) Remember in the old days guys these were under strickt radar control from the ground control operators (Big mistake THANK YOU!!) but this is why if you've ever tried to go far from base in full burner you will run out of fuel fast!! and remember unless I'm wrong but no version ever had IFR did it??
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The F-13 is from the very early 60s and didn't even have a radar, so being under constant ground control *does* make sense.
Furthermore, the MiG-21 was developed as a point-defense interceptor, say as pretty much the last line of defense. They should go up, shoot down the target and return to base. Guiding the interceptors is most effectively done by someone having a bit more overview over the situation - ground based radar in the eastern bloc, AWACS in the NATO. Of course you could go up and look for the target yourself, but with nukes in the game, this is just a waste of fuel and time.

Also, don't underestimate the Russians. After all, they have a working missile shield...since the 1960s. :d


fsafranek said:
Thank you. I got a link for the PSD files from Ivan but the zip is broken.
I'll check these out in the meantime.
:ernae:
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No big deal. Cheers! :ernae:
 
Bjoern said:
Thanks. :)


Also, don't underestimate the Russians. After all, they have a working missile shield...since the 1960s. :d
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They do ? A defensive anti missile shield ? Intersesting,I didn,t know that.I recall a young west german guy who landed undetected in the Red Square (back in 89 I think),in a Cessna . Why sending missiles over when a low flying Tomohawk can get undetected to Kremlin ? If they do have a "working" shield why the fierce opposition to US version defending Europe ? It doesnt seems fair to me..
 
Yeah, we had the Safeguard system with the Spartan and Sprint Missiles until we bartered it away in the SALT treaties. Had we gone forward with it, it would have been very hard if not impossible for any Soviet ICBM's or SLBM's to get past the extreme Neutron Flux from the ERW's. Built and dismantled in a short period. :applause:

Thing I like about the early Migs, especially the 21 was that they were cheap, reliable, easy to maintain, fairly good regeneration rate, and they were nimble in the air. They were built in huge numbers as well. The downside was that they suffered from not having reliable air to air weapons and lack of decent ECM and standard defensive countermeasure capability. At low level they had good instantaneous turn rate but would bleed down quickly. At high altitude, they were far better suited in a turning fight according to F-4 Pilots who fought against Mig-21PF and PFV's in Vietnam. In the end, the 21 faired badly in combat largely in inexperienced or poorly trained hands not unlike the Mig-15 did in Korea. In good hands against a fairly equal foe, the odds were even. I still like these iconic cold war era jets. They may have aged out against new designs but I love the classic lines. They just look damn cool!
 
yago9 said:
They do ? A defensive anti missile shield ? Intersesting,I didn,t know that.I recall a young west german guy who landed undetected in the Red Square (back in 89 I think),in a Cessna . Why sending missiles over when a low flying Tomohawk can get undetected to Kremlin ? If they do have a "working" shield why the fierce opposition to US version defending Europe ? It doesnt seems fair to me..
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I'm not sure about its current state, but the missile shield was definitively capable of shooting down ICBMs during the cold war.

http://www.fas.org/blog/ssp/2007/07/targeting_missile_defense_syst.php
http://geimint.blogspot.com/2007/06/russian-strategic-defense-part-2-abm.html

Matthias Rust's 1989 feat was an anti-aircraft issue and had nothing to do with ABM measures.

I guess the Russians wouldn't be protesting if the US announced a missile shield around Washington with early warning radars on *their* territorium and not in one of their Allies' country which happens to be on Moscow's front porch.


deathfromafar said:
They may have aged out against new designs but I love the classic lines.
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Don't say that. I still find the LanceR (MiG-21bis with israeli avionics and MFDs and updated weapons) very capable.
Their only problem is efficiency and the resulting costs.
 
Don't say that. I still find the LanceR (MiG-21bis with israeli avionics and MFDs and updated weapons) very capable.
Their only problem is efficiency and the resulting costs.
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As those airframes age out, the maintenance cost per flight hour will get worse. This is the case with nearly every airframe and engine type. The Lancer & Bison are good upgrades for the 21 but they are no match for current 4th or 5th gen designs. Against legacy types which it could face in certain Air Combat arenas, the Lancer and Bison are quite capable. Out of all the old Soviet designs, the Mig-21 stands out as my favorite legacy design.
 
deathfromafar said:
Yeah, we had the Safeguard system with the Spartan and Sprint Missiles until we bartered it away in the SALT treaties. Had we gone forward with it, it would have been very hard if not impossible for any Soviet ICBM's or SLBM's to get past the extreme Neutron Flux from the ERW's. Built and dismantled in a short period. :applause:

Thing I like about the early Migs, especially the 21 was that they were cheap, reliable, easy to maintain, fairly good regeneration rate, and they were nimble in the air. They were built in huge numbers as well. The downside was that they suffered from not having reliable air to air weapons and lack of decent ECM and standard defensive countermeasure capability. At low level they had good instantaneous turn rate but would bleed down quickly. At high altitude, they were far better suited in a turning fight according to F-4 Pilots who fought against Mig-21PF and PFV's in Vietnam. In the end, the 21 faired badly in combat largely in inexperienced or poorly trained hands not unlike the Mig-15 did in Korea. In good hands against a fairly equal foe, the odds were even. I still like these iconic cold war era jets. They may have aged out against new designs but I love the classic lines. They just look damn cool!
Click to expand...

I agree, it was all down to the skill of the USN and USAF flyers and experience in combat that they mostly won the day!
 
Bjoern said:
I guess the Russians wouldn't be protesting if the US announced a missile shield around Washington with early warning radars on *their* territorium and not in one of their Allies' country which happens to be on Moscow's front porch.
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Almost belivable if and only if the russians will agree to dismantle their systems at the request of the EU and others neighbours because it,s in their front porch.Don,t you think same logic should be applied here ?
 
Yago, you mentioned earlier about waiting on a VC for that MF model from GMax academy. Are they actually building a VC for that model?
 
deathfromafar said:
Yago, you mentioned earlier about waiting on a VC for that MF model from GMax academy. Are they actually building a VC for that model?
Click to expand...

It,s what I understood at the time when i,ve asked for permission to remove shine from their MDL,s. Don,t think they are going to,though.It would be nice cause it,s realy fun and easy to repaint.Without a VC I dont care working for it .
 
yago9 said:
It sure looks like it, but will change the subject now back to wonderful Mig21.
Lancer C it a different beast ,still the airframes are getting old and they will be retired by 2010 i think.

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Romania---Air/Mikoyan-Gurevich-MiG-21MF-75-Lancer/0888795/L/
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Need the Romanians to send them over for RIAT again! Although I think we got lucky in that they were already here on exercise, so both Waddington and RIAT managed to get them to appear. Would dearly love to see the MiG-21 again.
 
deathfromafar said:
Out of all the old Soviet designs, the Mig-21 stands out as my favorite legacy design.
Click to expand...

A close tie with the MiG-23 for me.

yago9 said:
Almost belivable if and only if the russians will agree to dismantle their systems at the request of the EU and others neighbours because it,s in their front porch.Don,t you think same logic should be applied here ?
Click to expand...

Actually, no.

If you want to continue to discuss this subject, send me a PM. I, just like you, don't want to drag this otherwise wonderful thread down a bad road.


yago9 said:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Romania---Air/Mikoyan-Gurevich-MiG-21MF-75-Lancer/0888795/L/
Click to expand...

Russian cockpits and MFDs together somehow look so...surreal. :icon_lol:


yago9 said:
It,s what I understood at the time when i,ve asked for permission to remove shine from their MDL,s. Don,t think they are going to,though.It would be nice cause it,s realy fun and easy to repaint.Without a VC I dont care working for it .
Click to expand...

Well, if someone converted the bis to FSX standards, I would give making a VC a try. Granted, it wouldn't be payware quality but a nice opportunity to improve my modeling skills nonetheless.


deathfromafar said:
There are some really excellent videos of the Mig-21 on Youtube if you guys haven't already seen them.
Click to expand...

Thie videos of the romanian LanceRs are very cool, but I was more surprised by those:

"Anflug Alpha Eins" (1971)
Snippets from a movie about east german MiG-21 drivers and their personal issues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FFM6aQJbbo

"Flieger" (1983)
Due to a medical issue, a MiG-21 driver has to leave his JG and gets to fly choppers (again just snippets).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zhUwaq2L88
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_QbYZKvHfs
The second video even briefly shows two F-13s, which were used as recon aircraft until they were replaced by M's in 1985.

As usually, with that kind of movie, ignore the dialogue (quite easy if you don't understand german :icon_lol:) and enjoy the images.

Also, an amateur video of Marxwalde (JG-8 and parts of TG-44):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgK8CqrobuE

And just for funsies, the reason why most russian hardware is forbidden in the EU - noise:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NJc6QqKf38
(That MiG-23Um looks really sexy in that livery.)
 
Thats the only reason for me flying the alphasim mig 23 i just love the VC especially the control coloumn which is beautifully modelled!
 
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