Most over rated plane of World War II?

[Cowboy1968]

As my last question brought wonderful answers, i figured this one was begging to be asked. What is the most over rated aircraft of World War II?

I would have to say the A6M Zeke. Regardless of what has been said over in the other thread, the allies had aircraft that could turn with the Zero. One of those being the P-36 Mohawk that could actually turn inside the A6M. Both the Buffalo and Wildcat, in proper hands, could compete on an even mark with the A6M2. Of course this was in a dog fight that was a furr ball. Where the Zero had its advantage was in speed and climb, but this came at an expense the aircraft was fragile as hell. A good placed first burst could down it. The Zeke had no armor plate or self sealing fuel tanks. In most cases didn't even carry a radio in the early stages of the war.

All these protections for the pilots that were dropped off the Zeke is what made the American planes rugged as hell. All the American planes could absorb tons more dameage then the Zeke.

Once the tactics were figured out the negated the Zekes speed, the Zero lost its invincibility and its reputation.

 

[bearcat241]

That pretty much finishes this thread. I can't imagine any more 5-star candidates to add here. Every other top-rated warplane actually earned its place for keeps, many still in service AFTER the war, while the Zero is the only one to have ever been dethroned by the end of hostilities.

 

[Helldiver]

I think the most over rated aircraft today is now everybdy's darling, the P-51. All it had going for it was long range and could accompany the Bombers. But having a liquid cooled engine caused a lot of management problems and all it took was a bullet through the water jacket and that's all she wrote.
The work men of the fighters was the Thunderbolts and Typhoons. That's all we heard about during the war. They cleaned up the airports and cancelled the trains. They ruined the bridges and strafed every column of Nazis they saw. They would take all kinds of punshment and keep on ticking.
No the most overated plane today is the P-51.

 

[911dan]

Il-2 Sturmovik
Number Built: 36,183

Number Shot Down: 36,022

 

[Mathias]

Spitfire, sure thing.
Really wonder why on earth our British fellows are so awfully proud of it.
Was ok during BoB even though the Hurry did more as we learned in the other post, got it's slaughtering when the Fw190 came and never really caught up again inspite of the legends. It would just remain a first generation fighter just like the Bf109 (candidate #2 btw).
Ok ok, the Mk XiV you'll say but by that time there where others in the inventory on the other side.

 

[bearcat241]

I knew this one was comin'...again...

Helldiver, WRT Jugs and Tiffies, everything you've mentioned falls under the military doctrine of tactical air power in WWII. With the highly advanced weaponry of today, strategic and tactical air warfare doctrines are combined in most modern fighter-bomber designs - one jet fighter can deliver a potent nuke strike against a city or simply take out a bridge or intercept incoming threats intent on doing the same. But in WWII, these two schools were forced by the technology of the times to be addressed separately. This takes us to the necessary evil of vunerable, long-range heavy bombers for smashing commercial, industrial and military complexes. Without this, you have a longer, costlier war. And without fighter escort for the vunerable heavies, you have to abandon strategic warfare altogether and resort to the lengthy tactical war of bombing bridges, troop convoys and airfields. Meanwhle the enemy's war machine continues to build and grow.

With its exceptionally long legs, the Mustang actually is the only fighter that can claim the rep of ending Hitler's war. It cut the heart out of his domestic air defenses and allowed the bombers to smash his factories, oil refineries and cities to rubble. In the Pacific, it also served B-29 crews well when Navy escort was unavailable or otherwise occupied with their own campaigns against the mainland.

If you take the time to objectively view the bigger picture of global strategic warfare in WWII, you can't deny the Mustang's importance. If you simply focus on the limited scope of tactical warfare, it can certainly be questioned as the best of the best.

 

[wolfi]

that would be difficult to determine, to be objective you must know how much aircraft´s are built, and how much aircrafts are shut down through the aircraft.
but this would be a interesting statistic, I can't find any resource like that in the net, so probably nobody has it done yet!

wolfi

 

[Cowboy1968]

the P-51 wasn't the best tactical fighter in the inventory, but it could do it. It could be and was used to straff enemy fields, inside Germany. It was used to engage the jet bases inside Germany. Yes it is true the "Jug" could carry a heavier tactical load, but the Thunderbolt didn't have the range to hit targets inside Germany until the allies had fields inside Northern and Eastern France.

Until that happened the P-51 was used on limited strikes inside Germany. It wasn't he best tactical fighter but it was adequate when it was needed for tactical strikes.

 

[bearcat241]

Il-2 Sturmovik
Number Built: 36,183

Number Shot Down: 36,022

Can you also quantify the number of enemy tanks and vehicles destroyed and troops killed by their relentless assaults that got them shot down? How many German ground thrusts were repelled by their attacks? An a/c is supposed to be a tool, not a book or movie star. Their place in history is solidified or denied by their contributions, not goose pimples.

 

[gavinc]

Most over rated plane of WW2 - has to be the Bearcat

Thing was so bad it didn't even manage to see combat
[ducks and runs for cover]

 

[R C CAWTE]

Spitfire, sure thing.
Really wonder why on earth our British fellows are so awfully proud of it.

Mathias.What planet are you on!!!

 

[bearcat241]

Mathias.What planet are you on!!!

I was wondering that too RC ........he's in sim world
BTW, i could say the same for Gavin...what's he talkin' about - planes that never served in the war, cuz they were called up at the very end? Whazup with that? :isadizzy:

 

[Mathias]

I was wondering that too RC ........he's in sim world
BTW, i could say the same for Gavin...what's he talkin' about - planes that never served in the war, cuz they were called up at the very end? Whazup with that? :isadizzy:

In sim world it's the über plane, every kid loves Spitfires in multiplayer.

 

[Cowboy1968]

My god did i just hear blaspheming here. The F8F Bearcat was one hell of a dog fighter. It was designed with the idea of operating off small decks. Hence the first squadron on its way to Japan at the end of the war was aboard the light carrier Langley and several other squadrons were working up for deployments aboard CvEs. It was also planed to put the Bearcat onto the Ranger when she was working up for a deployment to Japan at the end of the war.

The Bearcat was the fastest of all the Prop planes operated by the US Navy.

During the Fighter conference held in the United States at the end of 1944, one of the planes that was up for evaluation was a Bearcat. One of the fly offs involved a Bearcat vs. Mustang flight. both planes were on paraelel runways when the flare was shot, both pilots (combat experinced pilots) cracked the throttles and both planes were off. By the time the Mustang had cleared the runway the Navy pilot had made to mock staffing runs on the P-51 even before the Army pilot was flaps up and wheels up.

The Bearcat had so much power that it could almost execute a vertical climb right from the runway.

The only problems i can think of was when the Bearcat got to fast in a dive whe would experiance of air compression on the airfoil. It also had a unigue problem with the landing gear that seemed never to have been fixed. The right wheel would not retract fully once you were over 145 knots, so you had to make sure and get the gear up as soon as posible.

My granddad had one note that stands out in his notebooks. Something i haven't seen on any other of his notes....."his is the best bitch I had the pleasure to hold in my hand."

Bearcat crap.....don't ever let my Granddad hear you say that.....God bless his soul, I hope he kept his wings of gold in heaven.

 

[bearcat241]

...My granddad had one note that stands out in his notebooks. Something i haven't seen on any other of his notes....."his is the best bitch I had the pleasure to hold in my hand."

Bearcat crap.....don't ever let my Granddad hear you say that.....God bless his soul, I hope he kept his wings of gold in heaven.

:amen: A man after my own heart....:ernae:

 

[xavierb]

I respectfully disagree... We have to consider that the Zero was perhaps the most cost-effective amongst the main fighters put in the air by the combatants. It was very cheap: producing a Zero costed a fraction of the cost a F6F, P38, P51, etc. And, for the money it costed, it showed how much dangerous could be in hands of an expert (it is, of those Japan did not had enough from 1943 to 45).
And this raises one point (if someone does not like the statements above please do not keep reading or at least please do not start insulting me in the replies): the Japanese in fact not only showed how much could sheer let's called tenacity, desperation, fanatism, etc. could achieve against much stronger forces (was the Pacific War a militar parade for the Allies? I think no one can dare to say yes) but also how such determination was able to make a nation with the industrial capacity roughly of Belgium such a tough enemy. So keep in mind that the basic handicap of Japan in WW2 was simply that it was, unlike today, a poor country. The Japanese could not mass-produced a P-51 or a B-29 because it was simply unreachable for their resources. It is even surprising how they managed to develop such aircraft as the Ki-84 or the Ki-100.

That pretty much finishes this thread. I can't imagine any more 5-star candidates to add here. Every other top-rated warplane actually earned its place for keeps, many still in service AFTER the war, while the Zero is the only one to have ever been dethroned by the end of hostilities.

 

[bearcat241]

But Xavier, this is a topic of wartime effectiveness all the way to the war's end - and beyond in some cases. You seem to be addressing Japan's production capacity and the Zeke's cost effectiveness. This doesn't necessarily equate to a great airplane all the way to the end of hostilities. The type itself was simply outclassed in performance by mid-war...no kinder way to put it. Even if the Japanese had possessed the production capacity of the US, mass-producing Zero's was not a war-winning strategy against superior fighters, better trained Allied pilots and the fact that the Allies had practically written their own version of the Zero's operating manual (thanks to key captures) by mid-war. To stubbornly hang the outcome of the PTO-CBI conflicts on the Zero would have been equivalent to the USN and USAAF sticking to the Airacobra and Wildcat as their premier fighters all the way.

I don't deny the utility of the Zero in early war, but once its "Achilles Heel" was discovered and exploited, it was no longer the best frontline fighter that Japan could offer for potentially winning the war. That title goes to faster and more robust airframes like the N1K2J, KI-43, KI-44, KI-84 and KI-100.

 

[peperez]

Il-2 Sturmovik
Number Built: 36,183

Number Shot Down: 36,022

If you believe on German claims. One of the greatest trues of WW2 is that nazi pilots, by propaganda or inconscious mistakes, overstimated their claims 300% at least. Marseille claims to shotdown two Hurricanes with only 15 rounds in 10 minutes. At the date, the RAF have no planes near and the only planes it lost were two Tomahawk in a training accident near Cairo, more than 300 miles from the suposed combat. Despite this, the claim is, today, confirmed by most of German WW2 historians.

The Il2 did a terrific job and was one of Soviet secrets to victory. They loose less than one third of the suposed German claims.

Pepe

 

[Jerm]

I would have to say the Ju-87 Stuka. It was the symbol of the blitz and they put that siren when it dove to scare people but the British hurricanes and spits shot a lot of them down rendering them useless.

 

[Helldiver]

Bearcat -
“Helldiver, WRT Jugs and Tiffies, everything you've mentioned falls under the military doctine of tactical air power in WWII.”
That’s the context of what we are talking about here. WWII. Who give a R.A. about modern fighter-bomber designs. We’re talking about WWII remember – It was in all the papers.
Oh, you were too young at the time. Sorry, you missed the whole thing. So then it’s impossible for you to give a cogent argument either way.
By the way. It is not the role of the Navy to provide long range escort for Bombers. It takes it’s airfield to the target, therefore they do not need a lot of range.