MSFS 2020/24: The Same Aircraft Over and Over? Let’s Ask for More Variety!

[Sunny9850]

These are not the good old days in flightsim anymore people. Maybe we'll get them in freeware, definitely not in payware. There's no money in it.

Simple as that. Welcome to the 21st century.

Priller

I think the money would be there, but only if as a whole we would be ready to scale back our expectations in terms of fidelity and features.
Just comparing our beloved Connie series of FS9 and FSX days and the time it took to develop and looking at the L-1049 in FS2020 and all the negative comments the developer had to endure (yes I know major 3D shapes are still wrong) but overall the aircraft is not bad at all.
To me the big thing would be if somehow aircraft for FS2024 could be released in a simpler form and then improved by community mods.
Personally jet engines don’t interest me at all, give me round engines and I am happy

Cheers
Sunny

 

[DC1973]

There are many, many aircraft that most of us developers would like to build, but as already stated by others, it's rarely possible. Even my mid-level detail aircraft take around nine months and at least $5,000 of investment to create. New developers entering the field would need an investment of perhaps $20-40K to just get going if they're starting full-time with a brand new aircraft. Treble all of that for anything of higher fidelity. With the staggering rise of AI technology this might change, but then so will the development arena also - MS might not need third-party developers in the future.

DCS is even worse. Even higher detail aircraft, Draconian IP laws requiring developers to sign over all rights to ED, and with only a 3% share of the overall flight sim audience. Very few developers are willing to go there, and many are now leaving as a result of legal disputes and the chance to make much greater returns in MSFS etc.

I might make freeware in the future, and some of the rarer birds would be my targets, but I'm retired now so I have that luxury. Few other developers do. Expect more "high-return" military fighters to be built, for ever decreasing gains for those developers working on them.

 

[Javis]

I think the money would be there, but only if as a whole we would be ready to scale back our expectations in terms of fidelity and features.

That's like putting the horse *behind* the cart, Sunny. MSFS2024 *is* all about fidelity and features ( eventually anyway ;-)

Just comparing our beloved Connie series of FS9 and FSX days and the time it took to develop and looking at the L-1049 in FS2020 and all the negative comments the developer had to endure (yes I know major 3D shapes are still wrong) but overall the aircraft is not bad at all.

I think Red Wing might've started with the wrong Connie type. Normally a 'Super' version of something is the apotheosis of a series that starts with the basic entry version, in this case the L-049. The follow-up L-749 would've been more or less easy to develop from the basic L-049 model and would've been something to look forward to for Connie lovers as being the most popular Connie version ( presumably...). Good chance the L-1049 would've then been something to look forward to again and would've, again, been easier to develop for Red Wing compared to starting their Connie project with the most complex version.

And that is exactly what i feel about the Red Wing L-1049G model: virtually it has no 'history', atleast it *feels* that way and that's why i liked A2A's L-049 model in FSX/P3D waaay better. You could already see the 749 as a blip on the horizon (that's not true because A2A said about their L-049 " that'll be all"..... )

To me the big thing would be if somehow aircraft for FS2024 could be released in a simpler form and then improved by community mods.

"The community" would have to study and learn all the intricaties needed to develop a native FS2024 aircraft model. Having managed that to a succesful conclusion they'll be most probabely much more interested in developing something of their own instead of finishing something created by somebody else. Ok, maybe freeware. But can we expect a payware dev to put something in the market that is not finished ? Who would buy that ?....

In ending, despite the long sonic BOOM listing (of which i believe atleast a few are already available in FS2020 and compatible with FS2024) ironically we have acces to THE most detailed and most gorgeous looking internal and external model of a sonic BOOM subject ever seen in any FS' virtual flying world : the utterly amazing IFE/HB F-14 Tomcat !

And that brings us back to DCS. So not entirely Off Topic.

 

[Sunny9850]

That's like putting the horse *behind* the cart, Sunny. MSFS2024 *is* all about fidelity and features ( eventually anyway ;-)


I think Red Wing might've started with the wrong Connie type. Normally a 'Super' version of something is the apotheosis of a series that starts with the basic entry version, in this case the L-049. The follow-up L-749 would've been more or less easy to develop from the basic L-049 model and would've been something to look forward to for Connie lovers as being the most popular Connie version ( presumably...). Good chance the L-1049 would've then been something to look forward to again and would've, again, been easier to develop for Red Wing compared to starting their Connie project with the most complex version.

And that is exactly what i feel about the Red Wing L-1049G model: virtually it has no 'history', atleast it *feels* that way and that's why i liked A2A's L-049 model in FSX/P3D waaay better. You could already see the 749 as a blip on the horizon (that's not true because A2A said about their L-049 " that'll be all"..... )

"The community" would have to study and learn all the intricaties needed to develop a native FS2024 aircraft model. Having managed that to a succesful conclusion they'll be most probabely much more interested in developing something of their own instead of finishing something created by somebody else. Ok, maybe freeware. But can we expect a payware dev to put something in the market that is not finished ? Who would buy that ?....

In ending, despite the long sonic BOOM listing (of which i believe atleast a few are already available in FS2020 and compatible with FS2024) ironically we have acces to THE most detailed and most gorgeous looking internal and external model of a sonic BOOM subject ever seen in any FS' virtual flying world : the utterly amazing IFE/HB F-14 Tomcat !

And that brings us back to DCS. So not entirely Off Topic.

The community has built true marvels. FS9 and FSX were full of them.
Our Connie series started with Manfred Jahns L-1649A as you might recall.
And the whole series was definitely better than the A2A or any other available model.

 

[Javis]

The community has built true marvels. FS9 and FSX were full of them.

FS9/FSX/P3D, a complete and utter different virtual world compared to MSFS2020/24, Sunny. Really no use in comparing them. What we *can* of course do is say: "those were the days !" So why not go back and forget about MSFS2020/24 all together !? For thousands of years that's just not how it all works alas.... ;-)

Our Connie series started with Manfred Jahns L-1649A as you might recall.

Yessir, tell me about it ! Manfred's freeware Connie serie was a true Gem in its own right, a league of its own if you will. I think we can safely assume something like that is not going to happen in our brave new virtual world that is MSFS2020/24. I *do* still have hope that somehow someday a full blown all singing and dancing payware Connie might see the virtual light in FS20/24. It's only THE most beautiful propliner ever build, isn't it !

Btw, i did some work for Manfred's Connie, in particular the 749 which is my ever fav Connie edition. Enhanced the VC a bit, a few different color sets and a VC repaint kit. It accumulated almost 8000 downloads at Avsim alone... Not sure but does MSFS2024 even have that much users ?... ;-)

Not sure about the L-1649A inaugurated the start of Manfred's magical Connie series. The fact that f.i. the L-049 is lacking might stem from the release of the evenso magical L-049 Connie developed by the late great John Howard White (FSDezigns). A newcomer in the field of FS aircraft design with the touch of a veteran modeler. It was the meaning that the community would pick up on it and f.i. create a VC for the absolute wonderful external model but for various reasons it never materialised.

And the whole series was definitely better than the A2A or any other available model.

A true GEM that's what it was !

But A2A's (more or less) magnificent L-049 model would fit in perfectly. Must say i did expect quite a bit more (re A2A's amazing B-17 ! ). Seemed a bit rushed and all.. Far from as much 'heart and soul' into it compared to their B-17 wonder. ( as much as i'm waiting for the all singing and dancing Connie in FS2024 i do much as much waiting for Flying Iron's B-17G as well ! How about that for a change, right ! ;-)

 

[DaveQ]

All this is why I've spent the last who knows how many years updating old interesting FSX models for P3Dv4.5+. I can have any of the stuff mentioned in this thread looking as good as they ever would in 20/24, and I find it great fun to do - my hobby now! And if I want to do some sight-seeing I have 2020 and a few decent add-ons to play with.

DaveQ

 

[IanHenry]

A Bristol Beaufighter would be very nice.

 

[dvj]

No worries. DCS has its place. But we want more for FS2024. Not another tubeliner.

 

[dvj]

There are many, many aircraft that most of us developers would like to build, but as already stated by others, it's rarely possible. Even my mid-level detail aircraft take around nine months and at least $5,000 of investment to create. New developers entering the field would need an investment of perhaps $20-40K to just get going if they're starting full-time with a brand new aircraft. Treble all of that for anything of higher fidelity. With the staggering rise of AI technology this might change, but then so will the development arena also - MS might not need third-party developers in the future.

DCS is even worse. Even higher detail aircraft, Draconian IP laws requiring developers to sign over all rights to ED, and with only a 3% share of the overall flight sim audience. Very few developers are willing to go there, and many are now leaving as a result of legal disputes and the chance to make much greater returns in MSFS etc.

I might make freeware in the future, and some of the rarer birds would be my targets, but I'm retired now so I have that luxury. Few other developers do. Expect more "high-return" military fighters to be built, for ever decreasing gains for those developers working on them.

Well said. Is your P-61 Black Widow still in the works?

 

[keithb77]

A good time to fill out the Navigraph survey and say what aircraft we most fly and what we are looking forward too...

Navigraph FlightSim Community Survey 2024

Your input lets developers prioritize features, improves simulator realism, and even sparks interesting discussions across forums and social media. Plus, the survey reveals what the community considers must-have software, hardware, and trends for the year ahead. Help shape the future of flight...

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