My first WIP. Criticism? Yes Please!

J

JSpal

Guest
I'm a couple of days work into my first FSX add-on aircraft. I posted a couple of pics in another thread, but it's in a forum way down at the bottom of the index, so I'm not sure many people have seen it. I think it's coming along nicely, but I've never done one before, so I'd appreciate and advice, criticism, tips, tricks, etc.

This is what it looks like in the program I'm doing most of the modeling in.

ch750T004.jpg

(Trike with tundra tires)


ch750a001.jpg

(Trike with standard tires)

ch750TT001.jpg

(Custom tail dragger model with tundra tires)

ch750T005.jpg

(a peak inside the cockpit)

And what it looks like imported into Gmax.

screencap001.jpg


Obviously I have a lot of details to work on still. At this point I plan to concentrate on getting one model done all the way and functional in FSX (probably the tundra trike) and then come back and maybe finish up the tail dragger and maybe a float or amphib model.

I have a few questions straight off.

1. My copy of GMAX (from my FSX Deluxe SDK) doesn't have the plug-ins to export to the format for FSX. Are those plug-ins available elsewhere? Milton Shupe said it would be on the FS2002 SDK, but I don't have that version of FS. Do I have to hunt it down and buy it or has MS released the plug-ins elsewhere? Is it possible to export from any other program (I have access to 3DStudio and a few others at my school).

2. The colors of the individual vertices in Gmax - do those mean anything? Are they going to give me headaches when I start working in Gmax on the animations and such? I plan to split it all up in SolidEdge (the program I'm modeling in) and then import all the parts when it comes time to work on animations.

3. Gmax says it's "828 objects" in size. Is that the number of triangles? Is that any indication of how it will eventually perform in FSX as far as framerate goes?

4. The edges look all jagged (aliased?) in the perspective view in Gmax, do they all look like at this point or is it likely a problem with the importation process where the faces aren't actually joining up right?

FWIW, it's supposed to be a Zenith Air STOL CH750. It's a little off, but at this point, I'm more motivated to muddle my way all the way through the creation process from start to finish than to get all of the details just right. If I can get this workflow to work (creating in SolidEdge, animating in Gmax) then I think I can have a lot of fun with it and crank out a couple of decent planes, but I'm not 100% sure it's going to work out right.

Like I said before, any advice or criticism is appreciated. Feel free to be brutal, I've got all of about 6 hours work into it, so I won't get my feelings hurt.
 
You got much further along in GMAX in six hours than I did! I never did progress beyond the flying cube with wings stage!

Looking good!
 
Well, you got the first part right! I immediately recognized the Zenair ( I've been a fan since seeing her in amazing STOL youtube vids).:ernae:
 
It looks great, JSPal (name?) -- much farther than I got in my first week or two w/Gmax. I think you're off to an excellent start. If you've got the FSX SDK, then you have the exporter tools. You have to copy the FSX Gmax gamepack from the SDK folder to your Gmax gamepacks folder, then start Gmax using the shortcut that's contained in the game pack. The sign you've got it right is that you'll see an "FS Tools" entry in the top menubar of Gmax.
 
JSpal said:
2. The colors of the individual vertices in Gmax - do those mean anything? Are they going to give me headaches when I start working in Gmax on the animations and such?
Click to expand...

Nope

JSpal said:
3. Gmax says it's "828 objects" in size. Is that the number of triangles? Is that any indication of how it will eventually perform in FSX as far as framerate goes?
Click to expand...

Nope, i'm not sure of the exact location but if you go to file -> file information (or file properties) it should be listed. Dont have Gmax installed at the mo so as i said i'm not sure

JSpal said:
4. The edges look all jagged (aliased?) in the perspective view in Gmax, do they all look like at this point or is it likely a problem with the importation process where the faces aren't actually joining up right?
Click to expand...

Sounds more like Gmax viewport settings, setting the driver to Direct X tends to solve this for me

Its looking really nice as well :applause:
 
Great looking model JSpal!

Zenith and well done on proportions. Even several versions available on your single model. Nice!! I thought I was the only one that did that...


Bill
 
Tundra tires are funny. Looks like one of those airplanes your dad makes out of wood when you're a kid, the kind with the big black wheels on it so it rolls around real good. :icon_lol:
 
I like where you are...a little food for thought though, accentuate the mesh ,it is FSX and your limitations are no longer there. Dont think in the FS9 Low Poly creation...not really necessary now.

Cheers
Randy
 
From a professional point of view, I think you have promis! The only critique I have is that the prop needs a twist. Since the outside edges move FASTER then the inside, the outer portion of a prop has less "cut" or bite in it, so there is a gradual twist. The tops are almost horizontal when looked at the side, with the inner portion being between 45-20 degrees. I have a prop modeling video tutorial I did on youtube that I think can help you, along with some other tutorials you may find usefull. I think it all applies in Gmax.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Qv-jRK3IW0
 
PRB said:
You got much further along in GMAX in six hours than I did! I never did progress beyond the flying cube with wings stage!

Looking good!
Click to expand...

Mine looked like something the BORG would fly! Looks dang good to me.
Ted
 
PRB said:
You got much further along in GMAX in six hours than I did! I never did progress beyond the flying cube with wings stage!

Looking good!
Click to expand...

Geeze, I never got that far ... I couldn't change direction of my head from my technical mechanical cad to a "free form" graphics package.

:banghead:
 
Thanks for all the replies! It helps stay motivated to work on it when others appreciate the progress.

I checked the properties and it says it's 26,372 vertices and 33,245 faces. That seems much more reasonable - 828 seemed ridiculously low.

My importation process involves converting the model from the program I am using to a .IGE, in the program I am using to do the modeling, then from a .IGE to a .3DS in another program, then loading it up in Gmax. At both steps I have the option of how much complexity I want retained, so it's possible for me to tweak it that way. Right now I've been setting the complexity sliders right in the middle, so I'm probably losing some detail in both steps, but now that I know I'm still on the 20K-30K vertex and face range, I can play with the sliders some.

Snuffy said:
Geeze, I never got that far ... I couldn't change direction of my head from my technical mechanical cad to a "free form" graphics package.

:banghead:
Click to expand...

That is exactly the problem I have with programs like 3DStudioMax. I got an academic license of SoildEdge (which is a technical, engineering typre 3D CAD program) when I was in college before I had the class that taught it. I went through the tutorials and taught myself how to use it. Later on I had a class that taught 3DStudio Max and I struggled all the way through it because I was always thinking about how I would model something in SolidEdge, and 3DS would just do it completely different.

As for the prop on this one, I did that in about 10 minutes just to have something there for the moment. I need to find good pics of the actual prop for the Zenith, then I think I can get it to look better.

FWIW, this is one of my previous projects. Someday I want to build my own car, this was just day dreaming of what it might look like.

BANG40.jpg


bang39.jpg


bang27.jpg


-James-
 
You did all that in 6 hours? Amazing. It took me 2 and a half weeks in Gmax to make something that looked like a Tic Tac after a hard night of drinking.

To my untrained eyes, those models look great. My only "complaint" is that you are making them for FSX, and not FS2004. Especially the possible float version...I love float planes and can never have too many of them.

OBIO
 
Can you export that car to the SimBin engine please, preferably for GTRevo, but failing that I'll cope with rFactor... Cheers! :ernae::icon_lol:

Seriously, I just threw the towel in on gmax again for refusing to let me texture a flat surface for love nor money. You certainly have my respect.

Keep us posted!
 
OBIO said:
You did all that in 6 hours? Amazing. It took me 2 and a half weeks in Gmax to make something that looked like a Tic Tac after a hard night of drinking.

To my untrained eyes, those models look great. My only "complaint" is that you are making them for FSX, and not FS2004. Especially the possible float version...I love float planes and can never have too many of them.

OBIO
Click to expand...

My serious weak point is going to be doing textures. I've never done any textures for anything in past, so the learning curve will be steep.

As such, I plan to make the source models available in case somebody thinks they can jazz it up, but needs the source to do so. If somebody wanted to retro it to work in FS2004, I have no problem with that. I just don't have FS2004 so I have no reason to try to do that or any way to test it when it's done.

I won't really have a lot of time or emotional investment in this particular one, so I have no problem with someone trying to do something more with it if they can. If someone tried to rework it and sell it, I'd be more flattered than mad - although I doubt it will be that level quality being my first project.

Other than worrying about someone making money off of my work, I don't see any reason not to make the source available, but if there is another reason I'm not aware of, I'd love to hear it...
 
ch750TT006.jpg


ch750TT007.jpg


I got a couple of hours of work in today. Started on the wing support struts, added some brake lines to the main gear struts, did some more work to the interior, cut open the sunroof, more work on the interior structure (rollbar?), and cut the stabilizers and the flapperons off of their parent pieces so they will be easier to animate.

Gibbage, I watched your prop tutorial. Very helpful! I might just make the prop in 3DStudio, it seems to handle the compound curves better.

I have a question though, in that tutorial, when you delete the flat bottom edge of the prop blade, you say something about "remember you don't want hidden faces" or something to that effect. Is that just a general rule of thumb, or is it vital to the process? The program I'm using for the modeling deals mostly with solids. You can't really cut open a 3D object like you do in the video with the blunt end of the prop.

As a result, I have about a dozen faces that will not be visible in the finished model - mostly where two parts mate up, like the nose to the main fuselage, the langing gear strut to the bottom of the fuselage.

Is it going to mess things up if I don't get rid of those?

I can fairly easily delete most of them in the interim step between my modeling program and Gmax, but some of them are going to be tricky.
 
I thought I smelt CAD on you!!!

One thing to remember when going from CAD to 3D Studio's. Throw perfection OUT THE WINDOW! If you dont, your going to be constantly chasing your tail.

3DS is great at polygon modeling but HORRIBLE in Patch modeling. Just remember that.

As for hidden faces, its a rule of ANY video game modeling. In that you need to optimize your model as much as possible to run smoothly. If your working in something like solidworks or similar, its a bit of a reversal, but having non-stl models is almost needed in video games. Every polygon counts! Its more for performance on lower end systems then any requirement. The video tutorial is more geared twards IL2 modeling with aircraft ranging around 5000 polygons. The base of the prop, depending on how many sides you used on the cylinder, is 12-18 polygons. x3 on a 3 bladed prop, thats 54 polygons. Twin engine? 108. You can see, for something thats never seen, it adds up quickly.

Also, just another crituqie about the design more then the modeling. The rudder seems VERY small, considering the large frontal area. The aircraft would be extreamly horizontally challanged. I think it would need to be at least 2x the area to keep the nose in the right direction.
 
:ernae: Great Job -

It took me 6 hours to make a Line, straight......well almost straight.........took another 6-hours to make it kinda orange.........!!

Cheers !
 
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