• There seems to be an uptick in Political comments in recent months. Those of us who are long time members of the site know that Political and Religious content has been banned for years. Nothing has changed. Please leave all political and religious comments out of the forums.

    If you recently joined the forums you were not presented with this restriction in the terms of service. This was due to a conversion error when we went from vBulletin to Xenforo. We have updated our terms of service to reflect these corrections.

    Please note any post refering to a politician will be considered political even if it is intended to be humor. Our experience is these topics have a way of dividing the forums and causing deep resentment among members. It is a poison to the community. We appreciate compliance with the rules.

    The Staff of SOH

  • Server side Maintenance is done. We still have an update to the forum software to run but that one will have to wait for a better time.

Need a Bf 109 expert

O

OldCrow

Charter Member
I was wondering...
What was more common cannon in the following? I know both were optional packages, but what was more common to these models?
109G-6... 20mm or 30mm?(was the 30mmm only in the G-6/U4? If so, was that the most common model of G-6?)
109G-10... 20mm or 30mm?
109G-14... 20mm or 30mm?
 
G-6 was always equipped with a MG151/20 unless it was a /U4 model, which indeed had the MK108. U4 wasn't a common variant by any means as out of approximately 12000 G-6s built less than 2000 were them. The clear answer here, 20mm.

Every G-10 was supposed to receive the MK108 but shortages led to some of them being equipped with the MG151/20. The clear answer here, 30mm.

G-14 is a very mixed version as it was basically a "G-6 Evo II" and a close look at the production blocks reveals that while around 4000 G-14s were made, only about 600 were of the G-14/U4 subtype. No idea what was used in the G-14/AS models but in my opinion 20mm is a safer bet as the MK108 wasn't available even for every G-10 and K-4.
 
greycap.raf said:
G-6 was always equipped with a MG151/20 unless it was a /U4 model, which indeed had the MK108. U4 wasn't a common variant by any means as out of approximately 12000 G-6s built less than 2000 were them. The clear answer here, 20mm.

Every G-10 was supposed to receive the MK108 but shortages led to some of them being equipped with the MG151/20. The clear answer here, 30mm.

G-14 is a very mixed version as it was basically a "G-6 Evo II" and a close look at the production blocks reveals that while around 4000 G-14s were made, only about 600 were of the G-14/U4 subtype. No idea what was used in the G-14/AS models but in my opinion 20mm is a safer bet as the MK108 wasn't available even for every G-10 and K-4.
Click to expand...
Perfect Greycap...exactly what I was looking for...thank you!
 
While I have you here...anyone know for scertain the ammo loadout on a Bf109K-4 with the 30mm and 2x15mm MG setup?
 
65 rounds for the MK108 is the commonly quoted figure. Some say 60 rounds. Those 2x 15mm, probably MG151/15, are pure rubbish - and a very stubborn urban legend to add to it - they weren't used on a single production example. Perhaps they were planned and the myth stuck in the so called history books but it's an eternally repeated mistake. The only Bf 109 variant that was armed with the MG151/15 was the F-2 and it had the weapon as the engine gun.

So, 65 rounds for the MK108 and 300 rounds for each of the MG131s.
 
greycap.raf said:
65 rounds for the MK108 is the commonly quoted figure. Some say 60 rounds. Those 2x 15mm, probably MG151/15, are pure rubbish - and a very stubborn urban legend to add to it - they weren't used on a single production example. Perhaps they were planned and the myth stuck in the so called history books but it's an eternally repeated mistake. The only Bf 109 variant that was armed with the MG151/15 was the F-2 and it had the weapon as the engine gun.

So, 65 rounds for the MK108 and 300 rounds for each of the MG131s.
Click to expand...
Really? That MG151/15 is all hogwash? HaHa...thanks.
 
Once I get my house painted - busy fixing 15 years of applied neglect - then I'll be uploading various types of G-10 (it's nearly ready) and K-4.
 
OldCrow said:
Really? That MG151/15 is all hogwash? HaHa...thanks.
Click to expand...

Full of hot air. Well, think of it this way - when the MG17s were swapped for MG131s the change necessitated creating the well known bulges that were just large enough for the gun breeches and ammo chutes to clear the cowling. The new streamlined bulges weren't any higher, just better streamlined - so where are the much larger cannon breeches supposed to go? Not to mention that MG151/15 was phased out in 1942 and completely replaced by MG151/20 so it hadn't even been produced for two years when the K-4 hit the skies.
 
greycap.raf said:
Full of hot air. Well, think of it this way - when the MG17s were swapped for MG131s the change necessitated creating the well known bulges that were just large enough for the gun breeches and ammo chutes to clear the cowling. The new streamlined bulges weren't any higher, just better streamlined - so where are the much larger cannon breeches supposed to go? Not to mention that MG151/15 was phased out in 1942 and completely replaced by MG151/20 so it hadn't even been produced for two years when the K-4 hit the skies.
Click to expand...
Doesn't the Do-335 use the MG151/15 in the cowling? That's a late war design....so what do you know about that?
 
Some sources say 15mm, some say 20mm. Personally I see absolutely no point in using a 15mm gun when the same weapon can be converted to 20mm by changing the bolt and the barrel - which is exactly what was done to create the MG151/20. Hard to say for sure as the sources vary wildly, the only certain thing is that no late model production Bf 109 had a 15mm cannon in any installation.
 
OK, this is very interesting.

How about the MG151/20 ammo count on the 109? I see sources saying 150 usually, but found a couple that say 200. Was this an error or is it similair to the P-47 where the crew would load more or less depending on the weight wanted?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top