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Nemeth BO-105 now released

Anyone having sound issues.....i.e. loud clicking noise about every 10 seconds? It's getting maddening!:isadizzy:
 
Mud....i'm getting the clicking too:banghead:


I'm getting rather pissed off at the number of payware addons that are requiring patches immediately after they go on sale. I can understand small things slipping through the net at Beta stage....but some issues are blatantly obvious.It is bad for business releasing dodgy goods to your customers...and raises questions as to just how "professional" the developer is.:censored:
 
I think we are the beta testers but that's what I've come to expect, it wouldn't be a Nemeth bird without a couple of bugs, LOL, but what can you do? They are the best at helicopters IMO. :ernae:
 
Yeah - the Bo 105 has an absolut amazing visuel model. And with a little tweaking in the cgf., she fly like the real thing in the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoWQd8pcvek). Hope they sort out the light- and soundproblem shortly. It would be nice if we can switch the light on and out by ourself - if we wish to do.
 
Sorry, but I feel I must champion here for the developers.... This isn't a rant, but I want you all to understand the complexities of designing an addon. Sometimes, it goes much further beyond simply selling an aircraft model. Let me explain.

1) Developers have families too. Often times, when things are in a crunch or products aren't selling particularly well, a cash flow is a needed boost to continue development. This often happens near the end of a development cycle where little bugs take up a considerable amount of time. Imagine if you had to feed your family, the funds are running low and you STILL have yet more work to do on your product. For many people, the answer is simple. Release the thing and fix the issues as patches.

2) Development companies for MSFS are generally not larger than a handful of people at best. Most tend to be anywhere from 2-3 people leading the charge.

3) Some companies are naturally very scared of beta testers. Why? People like Robert Ferguson, who would be as willing to steal your product and give it to everyone on the planet. Competition, design stealing and other issues also crop up. It can be a major leap of faith for developers to bring in beta testers.

4) Beta testers are not perfect too. I have seen a great many beta tests run into several problems... For starters, it is common for a beta test to start off very well. Often times it seems like towards the end of development, the beta testers dissappear. Perhaps they have other things that are more important, such is life.

Also, often beta testers simply miss the most obvious stuff while digging for other issues, either given by the designer or their own quest as squashing bugs. I have seen many beta tests miss VERY obvious things only to be digging for the wrong thing in the first place.

5) Developers AND beta testers are people too. We are all infallable and make mistakes. It happens.

6) Other projects or time consumers play a big part in developing a product. I actually know of a few developers who are so in depth in other projects soaking up their time, sometimes they forget or simply miss the important ones in a released one. Perhaps they are trying to fix issues from old software?

Actually, I could list a lot more. My point is, please stop beating up the beta testers and developers as a first response. I make some exceptions to this, only because there are indeed development teams who maliciously or regularly do this. If however they do issue patches and do respond to support in a well mannered way and attempt to fix issues, lets stop beating them up.

This is the price we often pay when we don't wait on a product and get it when it is first released. If everything was perfect, the turn "patch" or "service pack" would not be part of our everyday geek talk.
 
I have to agree with some of your points Cody. As long as the product is usable, then I can wait till a fix comes out and will usually send a nice email pointing out any issues I might find. I do commercial work outside of FS so I know how it goes, BUT as for the family part, well if you are a commercial developer, then you have a greater responsibility to your customers, more so than if you are a freeware developer.

I do agree with the beta part, it is hard to find trustworthy people that take a long, hard serious look at your project and can keep the cat in the bag.

Bottom line for me, I am patient with any developer till they show me a non-supportive side. then I no longer buy from them.
 
I think we all realize those things........but there's a history/pattern here. Which won't stop me from buying nemeth helo's becuase the botton line is, they're awesome!
 
Ok Cody - I kind of agree - having been a beta tester on many products i accept that nothing can be expected to be "perfect" but when there are obvious very basic bugs that any of us can spot within seconds of a product being used then it is frustrating.

I am the first to agree that Nemeth produce the best choppers for FS, i will always buy their products and bugs - I would just like to buy less bugs per buck from any developer. Standards just lately appear to be dropping on every product I have purchased over the last 6 months - and I buy at lease 6 per month. (Dont tell wife!)

Any of us in business knows that if we make basic errors in our services or products we will get complaints and possibly lose that business - addon producers must also get real and accept that.

And if you dont agree then we can sort this outside :isadizzy: LOL
 
Here's my two cents...

As one of those guide dog owners :costumes: (incidentally, Sam is a Labrador - but he couldn't guide himself now, poor old thing). I have had experience of a dozen or so new products before they hit the streets and I can only back up Cody's words about Betas and Beta Testers.

The developer has to place a certain amount of blind trust in who he (or she) invites aboard. I've seen testers who are in it only for the freebie. They're soon spotted and blocked though. Also, some beta tests are more structured than others and yet more beta tests have a small army of testers, while others try to make do with a minimum.

It would be nice to have a professional Beta organisation who get paid to test addons to a set of standards. But hardly any flight sim addon developer makes enough money to pay for that luxury. Not even the big publishers turn over enough to pay for a commercial testing organisation - and there probably aren't enough retired or out of work pilots or engineers who have the time either. So the developers have to trust their luck and products hit the streets with a hidded demand for the new users to do more beta testing...

You could buy and expect bug free releases - but you'd have to pay a lot more. Even the big Microsoft sells bugs. Although their product support isn't as personal as you'll get with an FS addon.

There are also times when no matter what or how many issues the tester finds, there are some that the dev simply can't get around to fixing because it is something he built into his product so long ago that to fix it would mean a complete rebuild. Beta testers aren't normally with a product from day one. But believe me, I would sure love to have been for some planes...

I know I am probably a right PITA to the developers I "work" for. Of course, I make no apologies for finding last minute bugs and then pressing the panic button - I'd rather force a delay on the developer than see him lose your trust. But even I have to draw a line and say things like "OK, le't see if the buyers spot this. If they don't then good. Let's keep our fingers crossed." But on the whole, us betas do bash the developers quite a bit. I've seen some interesting "in-fighting" between testers and developers. Technical discussions often get quite heated in the beta forums - so moch so sometimes, that I wonder how some devs even cope.

...and of course some don't. Hands up people who watch a certain "Publishers" projects in developement pages. You will see some projects that have been in beta for years, even with changes in the developement teams.

And of course, as painter for this current project I am on, I have to admit that even I will probably be "selling bugs". Despite asking other testers to check me out and hit me with my mistakes, I was sat in front of a ready to release paint yesterday afternoon and I spotted a ghastly misalignment that may well have contributed to a release delay. Still, I could blame the developer, because he asked me for a new paint yesterday morning... :d

...and he would blame me because I told him not to mix fictional interiors with real world paints. :d

So in summary, knock us beta testers as much as you will. Believe me, some of us have knocked the poor developer even worse than you could.

Even a beta tester has to draw a line somewhere.
 
Chris - wise words - my retriever (Barney - aged 10) and I agree again with what you are saying. I gave up beta testing as it was so time consuming and :banghead:

I guess if we dont want to be testers then we should all wait for 4 weeks after a product had been launched to let the bugs be spotted and swatted.:icon33:

LOL - like im really going to wait - who am i kidding!
 
Don't get me wrong.........i'm not pointing the finger at Nemeth in particular (I've all of their birds...fs9 and fsx...and look foward to each and every release:wiggle:). I'm aware that small issues can escape detection during beta testing and that this will always be the case. As has been mentioned already...i'm highlighting issues with addons that are blatantly obvious.
I do not accept that professional developers will release an addon with errors so obvious that my 3 year old could spot them! I worked many years ago in a customer relations aspect for nigh on 13 years and excuses about personal issues such as putting kids through school or food on the table would not have been acceptable then.
I'm working for a well known computer company at the moment and could not imagine us selling a known defective product to the public without expecting some sort of backlash!
Bottom line is that i'd sooner if the product was released later with as few issues as possible rather than being rushed out with obvious issues. :)
 
I say: get 'em out there asap!
I don't want to wait for my next FS fix, no matter how much betaring (is that a verb?) you do, there will be bugs.

You listening out there in Developer Land?
How about a business model that says:
OK we've done our best with the initial build, we invite you the user to help develop this thing.
if you find a legitimate bug it's 10% credit toward your next purchase!

Ten bugs pinned, it's the cost of one download, or at worst, a CD...later.
 
I think the next patch will come shortly - with or without the Light- and Sound-Issue, I can`t stop flying her - for me it is a very, very fine helicopter. What we need now are a lot of repaints for her - there are so many outside, still flying ..... :icon_lol:
 
CBris said:
Oh I am sure it is a good PK - Nemeth are pretty good there!
Click to expand...

Your EC-135 repaints are excellent so I cant wait for you to work your artistic magic on the 105.

Thanks again for sharing your work.

Regards

GJ
 
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