New CFS2 Messeschmitt Me410A1 Hornisse

[misson]

Very nice W22,

Here's something to think about as well.....

Cheers

Shessi

Thank u Shessi for the effort! and I´m impresed with the efect caused by a new plane.

 

[kelticheart]

I knew it.....

....Here's something to think about as well.....

WD22:

Great skin!.....:-D

Cheers!
KH

 

[beepee]

For Shessi

Thank you again for your superb bird.

I replace your original DP by a one I tweaked from the Alpha Beaufighter Mk VI.
I also
-added guns tube in the front part ...
- made changes in the air file (scrap points and auto pilot) to get the bird flying without "bounces" with the AP.
See my new DP below


If find it is worthwile for your bird, feel free to use the Dp and air files included in the zip files below

View attachment me410A1 DP and air files.zip


Cheers
Beepee

 

[kelticheart]

Thank you again for your superb bird.

I replace your original DP by a one I tweaked from the Alpha Beaufighter Mk VI.
I also
-added guns tube in the front part ...
- made changes in the air file (scrap points and auto pilot) to get the bird flying without "bounces" with the AP.
See my new DP below


If find it is worthwile for your bird, feel free to use the Dp and air files included in the zip files below

Cheers
Beepee

Thank you, Beepee!

The dolphining effect flying with the AP was so bad, and unexpected, that I nearly crashed the first time I used it.

Thank goodness I had enough altitude, because the plane went into a vertical dive and I wasn't able to slow it down at first. The dive brakes do not work on this plane, since the spoiler key activates the bomb bay animation, while the dive brakes are keyed to the arrestor hook, which has no drag. I switched the engines off and lowered the undercarriage to slow her down, until the elevators were freed by the compressibility lock.

Once I regained some control, I noticed something I would have never expected. In my popup engine control window, I inserted trim gauges and the elevator trim was all the way down to the bottom! A quick reset of the elevator trim tab to a normal setting allowed full control of the aircraft again.

I wonder what might have sent the elevator trim to the bottom of the dial, I swear I never saw anything like this before!

Cheers!
KH

 

[bearcat241]

Once I regained some control, I noticed something I would have never expected. In my popup engine control window, I inserted trim gauges and the elevator trim was all the way down to the bottom! A quick reset of the elevator trim tab to a normal setting allowed full control of the aircraft again. I wonder what might have sent the elevator trim to the bottom of the dial, I swear I never saw anything like this before!

You may have also noticed many times after disengaging AP in other models you have to reset trim to some slight degree to get the right "feel" back. That's because, as in real aircraft, autopilot flight controls and the trim systems work in sync to keep an aircraft in a programmed regimen. The AP computer basically uses the flight controls and trim to fly the plane, just as the pilot would. Hence, if the autopilot's internal settings are severely screwed up to produce wild effects, it stands to reason that the trim settings will also be in some odd positions once the AP relinquishes control back to the pilot.

 

[kelticheart]

Simple!

You may have also noticed many times after disengaging AP in other models you have to reset trim to some slight degree to get the right "feel" back. That's because, as in real aircraft, autopilot flight controls and the trim systems work in sync to keep an aircraft in a programmed regimen. The AP computer basically uses the flight controls and trim to fly the plane, just as the pilot would. Hence, if the autopilot's internal settings are severely screwed up to produce wild effects, it stands to reason that the trim settings will also be in some odd positions once the AP relinquishes control back to the pilot.

It makes a lot of sense, thanks, Bearcat! Indeed yes, after switching off AP I always have to reset trim adjustments.

Obviously: AP makes fine adjustments to the aircrafts flight attitude via trim tabs. When my Me410 started porpoising (...and not dolphining...) up and down, increasing the amplitude of the swing each time, it must have sent the AP berserk, trying frantically to compensate.
When I switched AP off, the automatic trim tab adjustments had reached the bottom of the dial. Simple.

Let me ask you one more tech question, BC. I had that happening with other aircrafts while flying with the AP, not as dramatic as this time, yet bothersome, because I could not obtain a level flight attitude. I would like to fix it:

1. is it an incorrect CoG location in the aircraft.cfg that plays against a normal AP operation?
2. Would small forward/backward adjustments of the CoG location (in the order of 0.5 units each time) help curing the problem?
3. Did it ever happen to you that an aircraft reached a perfect trimmed "hands off" attitude and then started porpoising under AP control? (I saw this happening, too!)

Thank you!
KH

 

[jinx]

KC,

I have had weird Autopilots in fs2004 too. In that sim I tried giving them air files from other similar aircraft but it did not work. My conclusion from that was that it is not the airfile toblame but something in the a/c cfg...

In those fs9 instances, some of the a/c flew crazil under AP, turning all the time and losing height. Much wilder than this porpoising with the cfs2 Hornisse, which at least keeps course steady but is only unsteady in pitch.


Nick

 

[bearcat241]

I've never really thought about fiddling with the CoG before to correct the oscillations. I just change the first entry (*Unknown) in the 1199 record *Autopilot/Secondary Aerodynamics to a higher max speed value from the default. Most air files have a defo of 300. I use something like 400 for props and 800 for jets. Sometimes i just copy/replace the entire 1199 record from a good AP performer into the offending air file.

So KH, you asked, "Did it ever happen to you that an aircraft reached a perfect trimmed "hands off" attitude and then started porpoising under AP control?". Yes, i've seen this too and my common solution is the above. In rare, extreme occasions where this doesn't help, i find that the basic mach effect tables in the records range of 401-519 for the flight controls are either set to simulate extreme degrading performance as mach speed increases or they're just dead wrong. Some minor surgery here may be required, but this area is not for the faint of heart...LOL. Always start this work with a very good AP performer as a comparative baseline.

Another thing is the type of AP gauge being used and the manner in which the player programs them. I find that the old WW2 vintage AP gauges leave something to be desired in smooth control and trim management. They look appropriate for the era aircraft being flown, but cause unpleasant effects at max cruise speeds. I routinely step out of the box of authenticity and use more modern gauges like the Lear 45 AP and a few others. They allow me to set the programming FIRST before actually engaging the "ON" switch, not the reverse, which sometimes leads to the bad behavior. Also, many advanced air files are set by defo to automatically use "Flight Director" in direct conjunction with the AP. This is a major culprit for the weird feel after disengaging AP. So, regardless if you allow this setting as ACTIVE or not, make sure you have an FD switch/button near your AP switch so that when you disengage the AP, you can likewise turn off FD. The FS Concorde gauges, the Mooney Bravo and i believe the King Air have an FD switch in their gauge packages.

 

[beepee]

Try this set of cfg, air and dp files

I made a new set of air, cfg and dp files for the bird
I test them and everything seems now OK with the AP.
You will have to change the 3 files in your AC folder
It fixes the porpoising and also the rudder shudder visible in the external view that Worthless noticed in the thread "ME 410 Porpoising in autopilot"

Try them and tell me if they solve your problems

View attachment Me410A1_DP-air-cfg-files_Fix V2.zip

Cheers
Beepee

 

[Worthless]

Many thanks but no success.

Sorry to say, I've still got AP issues. The first fix you provided corrected the vertical (ie: porpoising ) oscillation but the rudder shutter remained. The second fix caused a drift to port before I even engaged the AP. This drift could not be corrected by trimming the aircraft. Engaging the AP had the same rudder shutter effect as before.

 

[kelticheart]

I've never really thought about fiddling with the CoG before to correct the oscillations. I just change the first entry (*Unknown) in the 1199 record *Autopilot/Secondary Aerodynamics to a higher max speed value from the default. Most air files have a defo of 300. I use something like 400 for props and 800 for jets. Sometimes i just copy/replace the entire 1199 record from a good AP performer into the offending air file.

So KH, you asked, "Did it ever happen to you that an aircraft reached a perfect trimmed "hands off" attitude and then started porpoising under AP control?". Yes, i've seen this too and my common solution is the above. In rare, extreme occasions where this doesn't help, i find that the basic mach effect tables in the records range of 401-519 for the flight controls are either set to simulate extreme degrading performance as mach speed increases or they're just dead wrong. Some minor surgery here may be required, but this area is not for the faint of heart...LOL. Always start this work with a very good AP performer as a comparative baseline.

Another thing is the type of AP gauge being used and the manner in which the player programs them. I find that the old WW2 vintage AP gauges leave something to be desired in smooth control and trim management. They look appropriate for the era aircraft being flown, but cause unpleasant effects at max cruise speeds. I routinely step out of the box of authenticity and use more modern gauges like the Lear 45 AP and a few others. They allow me to set the programming FIRST before actually engaging the "ON" switch, not the reverse, which sometimes leads to the bad behavior. Also, many advanced air files are set by defo to automatically use "Flight Director" in direct conjunction with the AP. This is a major culprit for the weird feel after disengaging AP. So, regardless if you allow this setting as ACTIVE or not, make sure you have an FD switch/button near your AP switch so that when you disengage the AP, you can likewise turn off FD. The FS Concorde gauges, the Mooney Bravo and i believe the King Air have an FD switch in their gauge packages.

Thanks, BC!

I use WWII vintage PBJ_AP.gau in my NDB gauges popup window. There are few of them exactly the same, but with different filenames, included in various addon packs. I use the same gauge translated into German on all of my Lutwaffe birds.

I always try to reach desired course, altitude, cruise speed and trimming before engaging the AP. I only use course, altitude and speed dials as they did in WWII, anytime I need adjustments I switch the AP off, adjust to need and switch it on again.

On the majority of my aircrafts it works fine, both multi-engined and single-engined, on some of them it doesn't. While I find it very useful during bomb runs, I don't use it very often while flying fighters, considering not too many of them had the leisure of AP back then. Mustang pilots would have loved an AP during their long escort missions over ETO and PTO!

I'll experiment with airfile record #1199 as you suggested!

Cheers!
KH