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The Staff of SOH
New Cockpit Lighting Technique
- Thread starter gecko
- Start date
Lighting
Ok - the best I can determine it has to do with the specular texture for the gauge faces. If you look at the s file the only visible aspect of the gauge are the letter and numbers all in a dull red hue with some type of directionality to the red hue. So I think to accomplish this what would have to happen is to make a s file for the gauges and only have the letters and numbers visible. being viewed at night vs day must have something to do with how CFS3 renders the gauge faces in low light. Now the secret will be to determine the features associated with the textures for the gauges the specular settings, shine, glossiness and other choices.
I will see if I have Luca's email address somewhere as he had given me the b24 and p47...
Ted
Ok - the best I can determine it has to do with the specular texture for the gauge faces. If you look at the s file the only visible aspect of the gauge are the letter and numbers all in a dull red hue with some type of directionality to the red hue. So I think to accomplish this what would have to happen is to make a s file for the gauges and only have the letters and numbers visible. being viewed at night vs day must have something to do with how CFS3 renders the gauge faces in low light. Now the secret will be to determine the features associated with the textures for the gauges the specular settings, shine, glossiness and other choices.
I will see if I have Luca's email address somewhere as he had given me the b24 and p47...
Ted
gecko
Charter Member
I'm not sure about that. If you notice there are _n.dds and _d.dds textures for gauges and the reticle, if you open the reticle textures you will see they are quite different. If you open the .m3d of the VC you will find both textures called separately as main textures with no specular texture associated. The gauge textures have separate set of main and specular textures.
I attempted to use the specular textures to look like lights by painting the desired portion of the specular texture the color of the light and everything else black and turning up the specular intensity in the m3d, but this was not successful. The entire part was affected by increasing the specular intensity and the light could not really be distinguished from the panel surrounding it.
I have found that to get good results at night, the only parts that can have any specular shine whatsoever are the parts you want to actually appear to be their own light source, i.e. reticles and light bulbs. They need to be on separate textures sheets or separate parts (if untextured) from any non lit part and any lit part of a different color. Glowing or luminescent parts, like gauge markings usually require nothing special. Adding specular shine to them actually obscures them as the entire gauge face is affected - unless of course you model the markings separate from the face, but that would be a pain. White or pale green gauge markings show nicely against a dark face when the light is turned on.
I attempted to use the specular textures to look like lights by painting the desired portion of the specular texture the color of the light and everything else black and turning up the specular intensity in the m3d, but this was not successful. The entire part was affected by increasing the specular intensity and the light could not really be distinguished from the panel surrounding it.
I have found that to get good results at night, the only parts that can have any specular shine whatsoever are the parts you want to actually appear to be their own light source, i.e. reticles and light bulbs. They need to be on separate textures sheets or separate parts (if untextured) from any non lit part and any lit part of a different color. Glowing or luminescent parts, like gauge markings usually require nothing special. Adding specular shine to them actually obscures them as the entire gauge face is affected - unless of course you model the markings separate from the face, but that would be a pain. White or pale green gauge markings show nicely against a dark face when the light is turned on.
How they did it
Rather simple. The specular role is similar to what I guessed and there is an animation that is used. So easy that dam why didn't I ever think of that. Gecko I'll share once I fix my pc.
Rather simple. The specular role is similar to what I guessed and there is an animation that is used. So easy that dam why didn't I ever think of that. Gecko I'll share once I fix my pc.
What I know so far
Luca got back to me yesterday and shared a few pieces of information regarding the gauge lighting in the RE2005 and G55. The specular texture is applied to the gauge glass and the settings for glossiness, shine etc have to be certain values. The different recticle textures are applied via an animation using the clock feature. So as the time of day changes the texture for the sight becomes either day or night. Therefore, for new models the artist can use these settings and techniques to acheive these effects. Exisiting models the artist could go back and revise the vc's and make new specular textures following the design of Luca and Nanni. I am going to work with John to see if we can make new German textures and modify the vc's to add this animations. I speculate that you could make a second set of night gauge textures using different material settings and such to get them to glow at night. The only issues is that these effects would occur at a predetermined time say 7:00 pm until 6:00 am or 1900 to 0600 hrs. Seems quite feasible and like WT? why didn't I think of this elegant solution.......just not smart enough.
Help for new models and models that the designer is willing to go back to revise.
Older stuff with no source files SOL.
Ted
Oh, he shared with me the Re2005 vc source file so I have the animation as well as the material specs.
Thank you Luca!!!!
Luca got back to me yesterday and shared a few pieces of information regarding the gauge lighting in the RE2005 and G55. The specular texture is applied to the gauge glass and the settings for glossiness, shine etc have to be certain values. The different recticle textures are applied via an animation using the clock feature. So as the time of day changes the texture for the sight becomes either day or night. Therefore, for new models the artist can use these settings and techniques to acheive these effects. Exisiting models the artist could go back and revise the vc's and make new specular textures following the design of Luca and Nanni. I am going to work with John to see if we can make new German textures and modify the vc's to add this animations. I speculate that you could make a second set of night gauge textures using different material settings and such to get them to glow at night. The only issues is that these effects would occur at a predetermined time say 7:00 pm until 6:00 am or 1900 to 0600 hrs. Seems quite feasible and like WT? why didn't I think of this elegant solution.......just not smart enough.
Help for new models and models that the designer is willing to go back to revise.
Older stuff with no source files SOL.Ted
Oh, he shared with me the Re2005 vc source file so I have the animation as well as the material specs.
Thank you Luca!!!!
gecko
Charter Member
You were right Ted, I spoke amiss. What I get for trying to go off of memory. However, I think it only works as intended in XP, it doesn't look good in WIN7 with the way specular effects are rendered. I should have noted in my above post that it applies only to windows 7 installs and so XP users will experience different effects. The shot of the Reggiane pit I posted has had its specular effects modified as I described earlier to get that look. Otherwise it was completely washed out. Could somebody post a shot of how it looks in XP?
The clock animation is a very clever solution! Ted, as I have been doing gunsight research as part of this project, I have found reference to Revi 12 and 16N gunsights having a red filter over the light for use at night and all Revi 16s but the 16N using a blue night filter. If you're planning on working back through your cockpits, this might be an interesting feature.
Also, the reticle glass part sounds intriguing. I wonder if it makes the reticle display like a real reflector sight where it appears to remain stationary as you move your head? Having that in CFS3 has been a dream of mine ever since I got track IR.
The clock animation is a very clever solution! Ted, as I have been doing gunsight research as part of this project, I have found reference to Revi 12 and 16N gunsights having a red filter over the light for use at night and all Revi 16s but the 16N using a blue night filter. If you're planning on working back through your cockpits, this might be an interesting feature.
Also, the reticle glass part sounds intriguing. I wonder if it makes the reticle display like a real reflector sight where it appears to remain stationary as you move your head? Having that in CFS3 has been a dream of mine ever since I got track IR.
This has prompted me to consider
You could have navigation lights under the control of the pilot, not landing unless we make them guns, which could be done. I am going to experiment and see if my ideas for controllable navigation and landing lights will work. Now only if we have radio altimeters and NDBs......
You could have navigation lights under the control of the pilot, not landing unless we make them guns, which could be done. I am going to experiment and see if my ideas for controllable navigation and landing lights will work. Now only if we have radio altimeters and NDBs......
gecko
Charter Member
Hmm, good idea. If the material for the lights was swapped out as part of the landing gear or flaps animation, those parts would appear to light up when they became visible. The trick would be to get a light source that is always on (because it would have to be on all the time to be able to illuminate a part on demand) but only reflects on the part we want it to. Maybe it could be located nearby but hidden inside the plane. A specular only light effect would not illuminate polygons that face away from the source. The material in the lights would have to somehow be arranged to display the light on the opposite side. This can be done, somehow - fly Clive's Tiger Moth at dusk and notice how the wings struts light up on the opposite side as the sun.
This method might also be able to be adapted to simulate exhaust parts glowing red hot too.
I have some thoughts on ways of using the various HUD displays as NDBs and maybe even radar elevation indicating. But they're on the back burner till I'm done reworking VC lighting for the TOW aircraft.
This method might also be able to be adapted to simulate exhaust parts glowing red hot too.
I have some thoughts on ways of using the various HUD displays as NDBs and maybe even radar elevation indicating. But they're on the back burner till I'm done reworking VC lighting for the TOW aircraft.
My suggestion
What i was going to do is to use the tailhook or wingfold animation to have the current navigation lights we use hidden in the fuselage. We would set the speed values to .0001 to say 300 or so, this way they would always be on. The pilot would then use the key board command to send the hidden lights to the proper location on the plane. Real simple, just never cared to do it. As far as the landing light, we could have an emitter that uses the gun light, and a pilot stations for just the light a few clicks of the key board and bam the landing light works. If someone else has a different idea let me know.
Really need those NDBs and a way to navigate...
What i was going to do is to use the tailhook or wingfold animation to have the current navigation lights we use hidden in the fuselage. We would set the speed values to .0001 to say 300 or so, this way they would always be on. The pilot would then use the key board command to send the hidden lights to the proper location on the plane. Real simple, just never cared to do it. As far as the landing light, we could have an emitter that uses the gun light, and a pilot stations for just the light a few clicks of the key board and bam the landing light works. If someone else has a different idea let me know.
Really need those NDBs and a way to navigate...
gecko
Charter Member
Clive and I were working on something similar a while back, but the trouble we ran into was that the light effect remained in the same place it was when it was triggered and was left behind when the emitter moved to a new location. But maybe we had something wrong somewhere. I'd love to see it work.
I found the same, it seems effects are locked in place when the aircraft is loaded. In the case of a landing light, it stayed in the gear down position regardless of the animation of parts the effect was attached to.
Pat Pattle
SOH-CM-2025
Another idea I had but never took it anywhere was to put the emitter 'inside' a demi-sphere. This would then be animated to rotate and so cover or uncover the light.
The bigger problem is finding spare animation commands.
Frosty
SOH-CM-2025
@Clive
Are you thinking about a vehicle with a warning/flashing light? What would happen if you coded the hemisphere as another wheel? This would make the light seem to 'rotate' but this would happen only with a driving vehicle and at the rotation rate of the 'normal' wheels.
You could also try to use the 'track' command (for tracked vehicles). Again this would only work for moving vehicles but perhaps you could try to slow down the light's rotation by not advancing the hemisphere with every new track animation. Eg. 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, etc. Don't know if that would work and if the tracks would move at the same rate as the wheels. But it's worth giving it a try, I think.
Are you thinking about a vehicle with a warning/flashing light? What would happen if you coded the hemisphere as another wheel? This would make the light seem to 'rotate' but this would happen only with a driving vehicle and at the rotation rate of the 'normal' wheels.
You could also try to use the 'track' command (for tracked vehicles). Again this would only work for moving vehicles but perhaps you could try to slow down the light's rotation by not advancing the hemisphere with every new track animation. Eg. 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, etc. Don't know if that would work and if the tracks would move at the same rate as the wheels. But it's worth giving it a try, I think.
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Pat Pattle
SOH-CM-2025
Hi Joost,
That's not quite what I was thinking of but does sound like it would work
Although thinking of it didn't Steve O-1 Driver get flashing light effects working?
My trials were on the Tiger Moth wing lights. By using the unused cowlflap animation I was trying to get the demi spheres to spin 180 deg and so cover / uncover the light and thus have 'switchable' navlights. It was a while ago now but I think I was having trouble getting the effect covered.
That's not quite what I was thinking of but does sound like it would work
Although thinking of it didn't Steve O-1 Driver get flashing light effects working?
My trials were on the Tiger Moth wing lights. By using the unused cowlflap animation I was trying to get the demi spheres to spin 180 deg and so cover / uncover the light and thus have 'switchable' navlights. It was a while ago now but I think I was having trouble getting the effect covered.
gecko
Charter Member
That method might be possible now Clive, if we can hide a light source inside the wing nearby as I mentioned above. The problem we had before was that we had to hide a flat particle effect inside the sphere and we couldn't make it small enough to hide and yet still be visible enough show when the lights were on.
Flashing lights
Yes we have them in the form of approach beacons, just need to review the timing entries to get them to bink at a different rate.
Yes we have them in the form of approach beacons, just need to review the timing entries to get them to bink at a different rate.