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New Jets for Snowbirds?

srgalahad

srgalahad

Charter Member 2022
"The Czech military has pitched to Defence Minister Peter MacKay the purchase of used fighter aircraft to replace the venerable planes used by the Canadian Forces Snowbirds aerobatic team.


According to news media in the Czech Republic, Canada has expressed interest in buying nine L-159 jets, with the Czech Defence Ministry noting that talks between the two countries are just beginning.


MacKay's press secretary Jay Paxton confirmed that an offer of L-159 aircraft had been forwarded to the minister by his Czech counterpart. But Paxton added that "no commitment was made" by MacKay.


The Czech news report indicated it was Canada that first made the overtures about buying the L-159s earlier this year."


http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Czech+jets+touted+Canada+Snowbird+replacement/2097947/story.html

Ok guys, get painting!

Rob
 
to quote from the same article above:

Using CF-18s would make it easier for the team to perform around the world, but would reduce their availability for smaller venues in Canada, which have runways too short to accommodate the jets, the air force concluded. In addition, the CF-18s would be 20 times more expensive to operate than the Tutors.
 
Tutor Replacement

BAe Hawks would probably be more suited for the reasons listed above.


Regards, Rob:ernae:
 
viking3 said:
BAe Hawks would probably be more suited for the reasons listed above.
Regards, Rob:ernae:
Click to expand...
Is that a Gimli bias? :icon_lol:

I suspect the difference would be purchase price as the Hawk is new production while it looks like 'gently used' L-159's and the Czechs are likely to cut a good deal to peddle the excess planes. However, we'd need a couple of spare airframes and a deal on parts supply.

Heck, I'd be happy if they were to go to T-6II's but the PR is not as good as with the sound of jets
 
Love to see a hornet but Rob is right considering the current economics. At least we can virtually dream:jump:.
 
Looking ahead, they are planning on buying the F-35. They are also purchasing the T-6, or Harvard II.

I imagine at some point there will be an end to spares for the Tutors, making the Tutor vs Hornet debate irrellivent. If this is true, it would seem to me that it would come down to cost effectiveness (Harvard) vs. super coolness (Hornet). While I'm glad I don't have to make that decision, it would seem to me that the Hornet would win because part of the Snowbirds mission is recruiting. Kids love jets over props.

The L-159 would certainly fill that role, but why purchase an airplane for a demo team that you don't otherwise fly?

Like I said, I'm glad I don't have to make that decision.
 
F-35 might be in trouble up here. Single engine is junk when it comes to canada's vast open tundra and arctic climates. You need a Twin Engine thats the debate.
 
Panther_99FS said:
What about the single-engine Saab J-39 :ques:
Click to expand...


Exactly. Some of the world's greatest fighters engineered in and for cold climates are single engined.

As far as coolness and recruiting, while I would like to see Hornets and JSFs as well, they did specifically say that they needed to get into and out of small airfields to make their presence felt across Canada. They are, after all, as much as I like seeing them here, Canadian. Domestic needs must come first. The Canadians have done a fine job all over the world with their single hornet demos.

I'll bet the Texan II gets it. They can fly those all over Canada and reach recruiting goals.
 
I have never seen the Snowbirds. They don't make it south to the Swamp Belt. So, maybe their numbers outweigh the power factor.

I remember in the Carter years when the Thunderbirds went from flying the F-4 to the T-38. What a disappointment. What a downer.

The Thunderbirds and Blue Angels are about Power! Air Power! The size and noise of the F-4 was a great symbol of Air Power. The T-38 Pfffftttttt!

After the F-4 it was like they went to toy jets. IMO the show lacked something with the T-38s. The Blues went to the A-4. It was a real Weapons System.

Don't get me wrong, I love the T-38. It is as fine a trainer made, over 50,000 pilots attest to that. But, it is like taking out a pocket knife for a knift fight in a bar when used to represent the might USAF.
 
stiz said:
thing is jmig .. there ment to please the growd ... not blow em into chunks :icon_lol:
Click to expand...

You don't remember the days in Europe when the TB'S, Blues, possibly other display tams could go supersonic.

I don't know if this is true. I heard it second or third hand. However, I heard the Solo's were know for coming over the crowd from the rear supersonic during the performance.

Power baby! It all about Power!
 
Using training aircraft for aerobatics is not a bad idea. I enjoy seeing the Thunderbirds in their F-16's and the Blue Angels in their F/A-18's, but trainers can do pretty much the same maneuvers, but at slower speeds, making it easier for the crowd to watch them. Trainers also burn less fuel, so there is the cost factor. Also, the article states that the Snowbirds perform shows at airports with short runways, high performance fighters usually require a lot of landing distance, so for the Canadian team, trainers make sense.
 
Something very odd about this...

1. 9 aircraft is insufficient for the Snowbirds, it's a 9 plane show. 9 airframes doesn't allow for any spares or attrition losses.

2. The L-159 is a single-seat combat aircraft. The Snowbirds transport their support crew in their birds, as well as providing numerous press flights. Hard to do without a second seat.

3. One of the pressing reasons to replace the Tutors is that they are not representative of a type flown by any other unit of the Canadian Air Force. The L-159 would have the exact same shortcoming.
 
Silver Fox said:
Something very odd about this...

1. 9 aircraft is insufficient for the Snowbirds, it's a 9 plane show. 9 airframes doesn't allow for any spares or attrition losses.

2. The L-159 is a single-seat combat aircraft. The Snowbirds transport their support crew in their birds, as well as providing numerous press flights. Hard to do without a second seat.

3. One of the pressing reasons to replace the Tutors is that they are not representative of a type flown by any other unit of the Canadian Air Force. The L-159 would have the exact same shortcoming.
Click to expand...


I don't think the L-159 is a single seater.
 
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