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The Staff of SOH
New Jets for Snowbirds?
- Thread starter srgalahad
- Start date
You guys got it all wrong. The jets fly over and then they take up five miles to turn around. Then the pass each other with a great deal of noise and the stink of kerosene and then they take up another five miles to turn around.
In 1946 when the Navy Flight Exhibition team (Later the Blue Angels) flew, every stunt was right in front of you. No flying for miles to turn around. There was always something to watch. Far more entertaining and much more stunts were performed. They really gave you your moneys worth. Anyone that watched the F8-F Bearcats will bear out what I say. I say fit the Canadians with a bunch of Pitts and everybody, including the bean counters, will be happy.
In 1946 when the Navy Flight Exhibition team (Later the Blue Angels) flew, every stunt was right in front of you. No flying for miles to turn around. There was always something to watch. Far more entertaining and much more stunts were performed. They really gave you your moneys worth. Anyone that watched the F8-F Bearcats will bear out what I say. I say fit the Canadians with a bunch of Pitts and everybody, including the bean counters, will be happy.
S
Silver Fox
Guest
A tandem seat version addresses only one problem... the least important one. You also have to consider the optics of buying a combat-capable display aircraft while the boys in Afghanistan lack organic air support assets.
They should be looking at the AT-6B.
They should be looking at the AT-6B.
CG_1976
Ret. US Coastie/RCAF
Another Tandem option is the A-29B Super Tucano from Brazil. The Tucano puts the AT-6 in the ground in all directions IMHO having seen them many times in operation IRL. In FSX ive ran Piglet's head on with Iris AT-6 and for Performance Airshows I got better stability and durability from the A-29B. Just another thought on Props.
S
Silver Fox
Guest
I'm afraid the Embrear Super Tucano is a complete non-starter. No CF commonality, and it comes from Embrear... Bombardier's nemesis and a company the Canadian Gov. has complained about concerning trade practice violations.
There would be a better chance of buying F-22's
There would be a better chance of buying F-22's
CG_1976
Ret. US Coastie/RCAF
I'm afraid the Embrear Super Tucano is a complete non-starter. No CF commonality, and it comes from Embrear... Bombardier's nemesis and a company the Canadian Gov. has complained about concerning trade practice violations.
There would be a better chance of buying F-22's
Excellent point and something new learned. didnt know about the Trade practice issues and violations. Thank you
T
tigisfat
Guest
There is already a military aerobatics team that flies Extra 300s. It's entertaining to watch them disassemble their aircraft and load them into a C-130 to get to the next show.
Railrunner130
Charter Member
I believe you're talking about the Brazilian Smoke Team. I saw them quite a while back. They were good, but I was more impressed (and happy) that they were able to make the show than with their performance.
It seems to me that a military demonstration team that would use aircraft that are not in fleet service is very much like false advertising. After all, their main goals are recruiting and goodwill. A kid that joins the military thinking he can work on or fly (say an L-159) and then learns "Those are just for show, You'll never work on those." is a bait and switch. If he sees an F-18 (for example) demonstration that captures his imagination and then he joins with the goal of working on the F-18 demo team is much more fair to him. It's also more achievable. He also may be just as happy to just work on the F-18, even though he may never become a part of the demo team.
It seems to me that a military demonstration team that would use aircraft that are not in fleet service is very much like false advertising. After all, their main goals are recruiting and goodwill. A kid that joins the military thinking he can work on or fly (say an L-159) and then learns "Those are just for show, You'll never work on those." is a bait and switch. If he sees an F-18 (for example) demonstration that captures his imagination and then he joins with the goal of working on the F-18 demo team is much more fair to him. It's also more achievable. He also may be just as happy to just work on the F-18, even though he may never become a part of the demo team.
I have to agree in part with Helldiver..our Air Force did have a jet aerobatic team on Skyhawks (actually we had two jet teams for a short while..another on Aermacchis) and a piston powered aerobatic team with CT-4 Airtrainers (the Red Checkers, which are stilll around). Whlist the jet team was spectacular the piston team can fly a much tighter routine and within the confines of the crowd line.
well going by what i've off the red arrows and the videos of the snowbirds, blue angles and thunderbirds ... i prefer the red arrows and snowbirds ... mostly because their more fun to watch and stay in view. Dont get me wrong the flying skill of all of em is supurb .... but display teams are just that, a display, and the f18s and f16s just aint that good at it ... they zoom past ... takes ages to turn around ... then zoom past again. Whereas the red arrows are always in view and (from what i can tell) so are the snowbirds.
but then if someone was looking at joining an airforce you would hope they knew what planes it flew
jmig
SOH-CM-2025
POWER BABY!
It is like gunboat diplomacy and May Day Military parades. Only, it is your citizens you are trying to impress and not another nation's leaders.
Military demonstration teams are a symbol of a country's air power and a recruiting tool, as someone pointed out earlier. The F-18 or F-16 does more to symbolize power and impress a 17 year old than the T-6II or Hawk.
As a final piece of evidence I ask you, who is the bigger draw at an airshow, the Thunderbirds or Red Barron Pizza team?
*Ahhhh yes, nothing like a good argument to get the blood flowing first thing on a Sat. morning*
It is like gunboat diplomacy and May Day Military parades. Only, it is your citizens you are trying to impress and not another nation's leaders.
Military demonstration teams are a symbol of a country's air power and a recruiting tool, as someone pointed out earlier. The F-18 or F-16 does more to symbolize power and impress a 17 year old than the T-6II or Hawk.
As a final piece of evidence I ask you, who is the bigger draw at an airshow, the Thunderbirds or Red Barron Pizza team?
*Ahhhh yes, nothing like a good argument to get the blood flowing first thing on a Sat. morning*
S
Silver Fox
Guest
If it was about power, the the Thunderbirds would be in Eagles... with Raptors one the way. The Blue Angels would have done many years in Tomcats before accepting Super Hornet.
Fighters are needed at airshows to provide sound and fury... but air demonstration teams should be showing off the skill, precision and grace that military aviation is capable of. Of all the major military teams I can think of, only 3 fly fighters... the rest are in trainers.
That says something...
Fighters are needed at airshows to provide sound and fury... but air demonstration teams should be showing off the skill, precision and grace that military aviation is capable of. Of all the major military teams I can think of, only 3 fly fighters... the rest are in trainers.
That says something...
jmig
SOH-CM-2025
Ferry_vO
Retired SOH Administrator
Teams flying fighters:
Blue Angels :F-18
Thunderbirds: F-16
Patrouille Suisse (Switzerland): F-5E
Turkish stars:NF-5A/B
Russian Knights: Su-27 Flanker
Strizhi (Swifts): MiG-29
Teams flying trainers (Note how most fly 'home-grown' aircraft!):
Red Arrows: Bae Hawk
Patrouille de France: Alphajet
Frecce Tricolori: MB-339
PC-7 Team (Switzerland): Pilatus PC-7
Midnight Hawks (Finland): BAe Hawk
Asas de Portugal: Alphajet
Patrulla Aguilas (Spain): Casa C-101
Biało-Czerwone Iskry (Poland): PZL Iskra
Other military teams:
Royal Jordanian Falcons: Extra 300
Marche Verte (Morroco): Mudry CAP 231
Non-Military teams:
Breitling team: Aero L-39
Blades: Extra 300
Flying Bulls: Alphajet
S
Silver Fox
Guest
About 1/2 of both fighter and trainer lists I would cut as not really being major teams... but I would add the Aussie Roulettes, Brazilian Smoke Sqdn and Canada's Snowbirds.