New update out V1.11.6.0

[StormILM]

I had hoped P3Dv5 was going to be on this level of detail but it's not even in the ballpark. I do go back to recall when FSX & Acceleration came out and how many years went by before it really evolved and then how long it has taken the programmers at P3D to overcome what Microsoft never did (and it's still behind the curve and very outdated). I am not above noting how I was one of the FSX bashers back in the day and once swore I'd never move over from FS9 to FSX but FS2020 is the new ball game. I give it into the next year and FS2020 is going to hit it's stride and largely relegate legacy sims out to pasture. I give Asobo this, they certainly seen more receptive and on the ball to issues than Microsoft ever was. That's certainly a good sign.

 

[UnknownGuest12]

Storm, I'm with you...

 

[dvj]

At this point, given the state of fs2020, I will not spend one more cent on payware until the dust has settled. I've actually begun removing some freeware things in the community folder I never fly to, as a way improve load times. That has helped alot. Good luck everyone. -d

 

[heywooood]

patience remains a virtue. This 2020 majigger has been out for 6 weeks...lol - I can afford to give it time. The market hasn't been a place for finished goods in the software industry since forever. The best you can hope for is a well financed and motivated, interested developer.

what was the FSX team called..? ACES? and now what - ASOBO? .. seems like a lot of the same comments being thrown around now as then, practically cut and paste. Thankless job making flight sims.

I like this one, but I liked 'Flight' too. Both were made for the console and the PC. 'Flight' was never going to be a true 'flight sim' but this one is. Let them work the kinks out with helpful guidance from the community instead of threats and derision. What might we be saying about FS2020 this time next year?

 

[StormILM]

I agree with patience. Most of us here have a lot of years experience on sims, I think my overall logbook going back to FS9/X and party of P3D was over 16000 hours! lol. Nevertheless, I look at what Asobo has done which no other sim maker has done to such a level before. As the various updates and plugs come in and the Devs have full a SDK to work with, there will be no limit so to speak. I have been flying Dino's two releases and am very impressed even though they are of limited function. It's a taste of what is to come. If any of us expected to see PMDG, FSL, and other super high end models from day one, that expectation was unrealistic as well as any expectation it would be totally bug free. While some things regarding FS2020 have frustrated me a bit (working things getting broken by fixes), my good use of it has shown me realism and feel the likes that I've never seen before. My local scenery never looked this good with other major addons for scenery and world environment. The cost is far less for mostly excellent ready to do scenery. I'm sure it will go through a good many free or low cost upgrades. All of my addon sceneries so far are freeware which are excellent. That's not to mention, the payware scenery I have seen so far is very reasonable in price.

 

[centuryseries]

I would suggest that the only Developers who will do well from MSFS are those Devs who do this full time. In FS9 and FSX you could develop as a hobby in your spare time. The new MSFS like DCS requires regular developer product changes to avoid any incompatibilities brought about in the way of 'feature' updates.

For that reason alone, it is likely that we may see much less variety in products that we experienced with FS9 and FSX - I mean who is going to make something really obscure for MSFS as a full time developing proposition with very little returns?

All just speculation, but the open ended beta test that is DCS (in Open Beta form) and MSFS seems to be the new normal for software development. To an extent P3D also has this, but at least P3D generally works and works very well 'out of the box' - albeit showing it's age a little.

I notice with MSFS there is a version compatibility number in either the manifest or layout json - so in the future any products not updated may well be left behind and it'll be down to end users to work out if it is worth spending their money on.

All P3D needs is google maps data for the globe and we'd be laughing!

When will MSFS properly support supersonic flight and better jet engine modelling?

 

[Tom Clayton]

The game version number in the manifest is a minimum, so in theory, it's supposed to work with any future version. Of course, when Asobo makes a change to a core file, some addons can be broken. The Working Title people and their Garmin mods are a perfect example. WT releases their improvements, then Asobo upgrades their own Garmin functions and something in the WT no longer works. Users across the board are having to remove stuff from their Community folders while WT scrambles to update their own work. At least now, they have recognized that the Fly By Wire people are doing critical work, and Asobo is working with​ the FBW team to help them keep the A320 project moving.

 

[heywooood]

I remember when Carenado said they would not be making any addons for FSX early on, because the update(s) had 'broken' or made such changes as to render the existing FS9 models useless.

I emailed them directly about it over their Bonanza v35 and got that reply - I think a few other community members reached out to them to reconsider and thankfully - they did.

Other developers and the smaller 'one man show' artists also decided to make an effort despite the ballyhoo about FSX being a different and more involved ballgame than FS9 - and we ended up with a veritable encyclopedia of aircrafts, environments, and sceneries from all over the world.

No reason to believe it won't happen again exactly as before.

I look forward to the helicopters, jets, carriers, sceneries, missions, and environments to come. We have nowhere to go but up

 

[centuryseries]

I remember when Carenado said they would not be making any addons for FSX early on, because the update(s) had 'broken' or made such changes as to render the existing FS9 models useless.

I emailed them directly about it over their Bonanza v35 and got that reply - I think a few other community members reached out to them to reconsider and thankfully - they did.

Other developers and the smaller 'one man show' artists also decided to make an effort despite the ballyhoo about FSX being a different and more involved ballgame than FS9 - and we ended up with a veritable encyclopedia of aircrafts, environments, and sceneries from all over the world.

No reason to believe it won't happen again exactly as before.

I look forward to the helicopters, jets, carriers, sceneries, missions, and environments to come. We have nowhere to go but up

I admire your optimism.

We must remember though that FSX had 2 updates over it's life (from memory) before being dropped by MS, new MSFS will have an update a month for the foreseeable future!

 

[dvj]

I would suggest that the only Developers who will do well from MSFS are those Devs who do this full time. In FS9 and FSX you could develop as a hobby in your spare time. The new MSFS like DCS requires regular developer product changes to avoid any incompatibilities brought about in the way of 'feature' updates.For that reason alone, it is likely that we may see much less variety in products that we experienced with FS9 and FSX - I mean who is going to make something really obscure for MSFS as a full time developing proposition with very little returns?All just speculation, but the open ended beta test that is DCS (in Open Beta form) and MSFS seems to be the new normal for software development. To an extent P3D also has this, but at least P3D generally works and works very well 'out of the box' - albeit showing it's age a little.I notice with MSFS there is a version compatibility number in either the manifest or layout json - so in the future any products not updated may well be left behind and it'll be down to end users to work out if it is worth spending their money on.All P3D needs is google maps data for the globe and we'd be laughing!When will MSFS properly support supersonic flight and better jet engine modelling?

This openended beta testing is something I've suspected a long time. Especially with payware aircraft developers. With limited resources, let the user find and report on bugs. An effective and efficient way to find and fix, but annoying for a customer. BTW, yet another update today, all based on user feedback.

 

[heywooood]

I admire your optimism.

We must remember though that FSX had 2 updates over it's life (from memory) before being dropped by MS, new MSFS will have an update a month for the foreseeable future!

let us hope the net effect will be more good than harm...I expect they at Asobo understand that updates that constantly break developer's products would be under the 'harm' column

 

[bazzar]

Patience is indeed a virtue but I have said it before and I'll say it again...

There are numerous comments out there along the lines of "I'm not buying any more add-ons for P3D/FSX/whatever...I'll wait for MSFS"
That's all fine but the point is that until the development process becomes more user friendly (by that I mean Dev-friendly) it is going to take a LONG time for the average small to medium developer to make add-ons to the expected standards.

In the meantime, developers need to sell to survive. They can't live on "patience". The only products most have to sell and more importantly, are faster to develop new are for the FSX/P3D platform. If nobody wants to buy then those devs will begin to fade.

That is a fact.

 

[StormILM]

From an end user's standpoint (who's spent many thousands of dollars on addons over the last decade and a half), there does come a point when you do stop buying for a legacy platform for the simple fact one uses them less or not at all anymore. I have reached that point with FSX/P3D even before FS2020 came out as I expanded more deeply into a more fulfilling use of DCS for it's high performance range aircraft models and capabilities. I only kept P3D mainly to accommodate using aircraft models (tubeliners) for their more advanced system flows but to be honest, I can get a good bit of that now out of the basic tubeliners in FS2020 and more advanced models from different devs are right around the corner.

On the developer end of this, having worked with a number of them (inside & outside of flight sims), I do understand the ever changing (steeper) grade it is to climb to stay in the game but this has been the trend for some time now. What is very frustrating for some end users is seeing products they are interested in seeing very protracted development or even many not getting released after years and years. Of course the reasons for this vary and yes, of course there is significant frustration the devs themselves encounter at times and for different reasons (seen it with my own eyes). Bottom line, the target window for consumer interest/viability is limited on both sides. Some products will be worth the investment to build and code for high end systems & etc while some models would be better kept simple to minimize the development time. But yes, the time to plan on making the transition is here. As far as these frequent updates breaking things, that has pretty much been the case with P3D every time they do the same. I think FS2020 will level out a bit on this in the coming year. I do agree with the devs than Asobo should have been in higher gear for the SDK yet but then again, some of the segments to this sim haven't been finished to allow that yet. It is coming...

 

[Javis]

If nobody wants to buy then those devs will begin to fade

..to make place for new ones to materialize. It's called evolution and that's a good thing, otherwise we'd all still be living in a cave without our precious computers (we're going to regret some day that we invented these things..)

I believe many simmers still use FS9 or even earlier iterations of our favourite flying toy. That might well go on far into the forseeable future and no doubt will be the same re FSX and P3D. Nothing wrong with that.

With MSFS we are entering an almost totally new virtual flying world. An evolution in its own right. ( "A small step for men, a giant leap for mankind" springs to mind. ;-) One needs to step into this new world with an open mind. Forget about FS9/FSX/P3D. This is an all new ball game with all new players both 'in the field and on the grandstand'.

I, for one, still cannot describe the totally different feeling i have during a virtual flight with MSFS compared to everything i experienced before with any flightsim of the 'older generation', eventhough the virtual plane itself doesn't mean that much to me ( i can certainly wait for things to come with a thing like MSFS to enjoy the waiting). It finally feels like flying and that's what it's all about, isn't it.

I guess i just wanna say C'mon Barry get that C-47 MSFS' air worthy !

 

[centuryseries]

..to make place for new ones to materialize. It's called evolution and that's a good thing, otherwise we'd all still be living in a cave without our precious computers (we're going to regret some day that we invented these things..)

I believe many simmers still use FS9 or even earlier iterations of our favourite flying toy. That might well go on far into the forseeable future and no doubt will be the same re FSX and P3D. Nothing wrong with that.

With MSFS we are entering an almost totally new virtual flying world. An evolution in its own right. ( "A small step for men, a giant leap for mankind" springs to mind. ;-) One needs to step into this new world with an open mind. Forget about FS9/FSX/P3D. This is an all new ball game with all new players both 'in the field and on the grandstand'.

I, for one, still cannot describe the totally different feeling i have during a virtual flight with MSFS compared to everything i experienced before with any flightsim of the 'older generation', eventhough the virtual plane itself doesn't mean that much to me ( i can certainly wait for things to come with a thing like MSFS to enjoy the waiting). It finally feels like flying and that's what it's all about, isn't it.

I guess i just wanna say C'mon Barry get that C-47 MSFS' air worthy !

That's all well and good for subsonic aircraft, but when you only develop supersonic aircraft and have no subsonic aircraft in your model pipeline, it's a bit of a problem when MSFS still doesn't support supersonic flight models and engines in a way detailed enough to make realistic supersonic flight.

 

[keithb77]

In the meantime, developers need to sell to survive. They can't live on "patience". The only products most have to sell and more importantly, are faster to develop new are for the FSX/P3D platform. If nobody wants to buy then those devs will begin to fade.

I've just started buying P3D aircraft again (none since getting into the MSFS alpha), but only those I know can be imported well into MSFS.
I don't know if there is any mileage in developers publishing the results of imports...Flight Replicas have done so on their facebook page and I just bought 3 of their aircraft. I'll use them in P3D too of course.

Some of the JF/AH aircraft don't import successfully due to the copy protection, which is fair do's, but I'd probably buy the C119 if I knew the JF variant imported...

Another option is to offer an upgrade to MSFS with P3D products - PMDG did that for their 737 for a while.

Cheers
Keith

 

[Javis]

That's all well and good for subsonic aircraft, but when you only develop supersonic aircraft and have no subsonic aircraft in your model pipeline, it's a bit of a problem when MSFS still doesn't support supersonic flight models and engines in a way detailed enough to make realistic supersonic flight.

In real life aviation had to wait for supersonic flight to materialize for quite some time. Just like Chuck Yeager needed a broomstick to close the door in his Bell X1, apparently the boys at MS/Asobo need a dooropener as well to make supersonic flight happen in MSFS. So all the more realistic if you ask me. One step at a time. Rome wasn't build in a day and all that sort of thing. Like Chuck Yeager they'll find one, i'm sure.

Tip (if i may) : start thinking about developing subsonic planes too, preferable range between 120 and 180 IAS, that's where MSFS really shines.

 

[pilto von pilto]

..to make place for new ones to materialize. It's called evolution and that's a good thing, otherwise we'd all still be living in a cave without our precious computers (we're going to regret some day that we invented these things..)

I believe many simmers still use FS9 or even earlier iterations of our favourite flying toy. That might well go on far into the forseeable future and no doubt will be the same re FSX and P3D. Nothing wrong with that.

With MSFS we are entering an almost totally new virtual flying world. An evolution in its own right. ( "A small step for men, a giant leap for mankind" springs to mind. ;-) One needs to step into this new world with an open mind. Forget about FS9/FSX/P3D. This is an all new ball game with all new players both 'in the field and on the grandstand'.

I, for one, still cannot describe the totally different feeling i have during a virtual flight with MSFS compared to everything i experienced before with any flightsim of the 'older generation', eventhough the virtual plane itself doesn't mean that much to me ( i can certainly wait for things to come with a thing like MSFS to enjoy the waiting). It finally feels like flying and that's what it's all about, isn't it.

I guess i just wanna say C'mon Barry get that C-47 MSFS' air worthy !

Except have you seen any new people come in to take up the mantle recently. Like to the numbers we saw when FS2004 > FSX? I dont think you will. The amount of time : ROI is too weighted on the time side to make it viable to most other than a hobbyist who has the time ( who has that nowadays ) who still not only possibly learn the new development process but the actual techniques of making a plane and using the software. Coupled with the raised bar of the stock aircraft and the communities tendency to cut-down anything that doesnt fit within a very slim set of parameters... well why would anyone do it.

My personal opinion is that once Xbox comes in there will be a flow of content. Sure the content might not be what the current community is used to but it will be what the new community will want. Maybe the community will need to change it's thinking like the devs have needed to.

 

[bazzar]

I guess i just wanna say C'mon Barry get that C-47 MSFS' air worthy !

It's happening mate. However, we do have a duty of care to our P3D customers with a major upgrade to the C47/DC3, Sabreliner completion and release and the Zlin-Z50LS completion and release. These come first so we can eat and the children have shoes...

 

[Javis]

Except have you seen any new people come in to take up the mantle recently. Like to the numbers we saw when FS2004 > FSX? I dont think you will. The amount of time : ROI is too weighted on the time side to make it viable to most other than a hobbyist who has the time ( who has that nowadays ) who still not only possibly learn the new development process but the actual techniques of making a plane and using the software. Coupled with the raised bar of the stock aircraft and the communities tendency to cut-down anything that doesnt fit within a very slim set of parameters... well why would anyone do it.

Tell me about it, Pilto. I come from the FS9->FSX dev era, sitting on the fench for this next, much bigger step. And i am certainly not looking for/expecting 'numbers' of new or converted MSFS flying stuff. I am already childishly happy with Dino's early contributions Long EZ and MB339 (i know he started development during MSFS early alpha stage), Carenado's M20 and looking forward to their Seminole and a hop in the Bleriot. I think the future looks bright and cool too.

My personal opinion is that once Xbox comes in there will be a flow of content. Sure the content might not be what the current community is used to but it will be what the new community will want. Maybe the community will need to change it's thinking like the devs have needed to.

Well, that's what i was more or less trying to convey from that soapbox. Despite its current shortcomings and bugs ( of which, regarding the latter, i have to shamefully admit i know just about nothing, which might be caused by the fact that i fly strictly VOR, no airliners or business jets please. That'll come i'm sure) MSFS is the bright new day we've all been waiting for (well, haven't we !!???....) and personally can't help wanting to shout it from the highest hill.

I say fasten your seatbelts and enjoy it ! If you hate glass cockpits or not ! (sorry, that's just some selfreflection ;-)