New video card

W

Wulf190

Charter Member
When I build my new rig I first picked up an ATI 5850, which didn't like to work with CFS2 at all. Vsync wouldn't turn off, and the card was very picky about with 2d panels it wanted to show.

These issues went away when I plugged my ol' 8800GTS 512 back in.

But I still wanted a new video card for my system. So I pulled the trigger on a GTX 460.


Great card! Image looks better, frame rate is still insane (good thing), I can turn Vsync on or off with out issue. But the only issue I found is that the card will not display the 2d panel when I'm in full screen mode and running a resolution of 1680X1050. The image just distorts. This is when I'm in 2panel mode, or flying with out any panel and just the 2 d info gauges, they also distorts. VC flying is not an issue.

Well I solved it back selecting 1680X1024, no more distortion. Awesome card!
 
I'm looking at getting a new system with the ATI HD 5970 card. Are you saying the problem you described was true for all ATI series cards or unique to your setup?

Anyone else out there with either positive or negative experience with ATI? Anyone using the HD 5970?
 
Cody,
I don't know anything about running CFS2 on an HD-5970, but I know there are some significant issues running FSX with either a twin GPU card or two cards in Crossfire. In this case, it seems that FSX not only doesn't get all the expected benefits of two GPUs but also suffers some negative impact. I'm just about to buy all the parts so that I can build my first PC, and eventually decided to downgrade from an HD-5970 to an HD-5870 for this very reason.

I would think that an HD-5870 will give more than enough performance to satisfy CFS2, but am now concerned, like you, about this open question of Vsync and CFS2 ...
Ro
:ernae:
 
I've been browsing the web looking for updates on the ATi / Vsync problem, and it seems that there may be two solutions - use either RivaTuner or ATi Tray Tools. According to these two threads, and quite a few others, either of these tools allows you to force the status of Vsync regardless of the lack of ability to control it through the driver or Win7 / Vista :

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=83990
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=298248

The only other alternatives I found were to either use an Nvidia card or install WinXP ...

I actually downloaded both these tools from www.Guru3D.com last week, but until I've built my PC, I can't vouch for any of this,
hope that helps,
Ro
:kilroy:
 
I tried rivatuner and ATI Tray Tools, neither were able to force Vsync in Windows 7. Seems like the only option is going with a Nvidia card for Windows 7.
 
I guess I'm glad this thread started but it puts me in a quandary. I plan to run Windows 7 Professional on my new system and this discussion would seem to point me away from ATI and toward Nvidia. That isn't necessarily bad, it's just all my other reading seemed to indicate that ATI was preferred (based on forums like this and other user experiences).

Initially I had considered the Nvidia GeForce GTX-480, but I was spooked by the heat generation and the power draw. I don't want the lights to dim and the case to start melting every time I enter a dogfight. As I say, the more I read about it the more I felt like the ATI HD-5970 was the way to go.

I'm looking for something that will play CFS2 and CFS3 (OFF) at high frame rates and last me for years to come. My aging (10 year old) system is so bloated and out of date that I can't even play CFS2 anymore without it turning into a slide show.

I have pretty much everything else specked out in terms of what I want but I'm hung up on the video card. I'm hoping this discussion can clear things up and not muddy the water even more.
 
Yep, it seems we have the same problem. Sadly, this is also the wrong time of year to be planning a new PC.

Quite apart from trying to discern the truth from the bias and prejudice on both sides of the ATi and Nvidia wars, I found as many posts saying that either RivaTuner or ATi Tray Tools worked (in controlling Vsync) as I did saying that they didn't (all the posts I found were related to FSX or non-FS games). We could really do with having some of our hardware experts drop in here and offer advice ...

The only "solution" I found out there that everybody agreed always worked was to install WinXP - either stand-alone or as part of a dual-boot system. I had already been toying with the idea of installing WinXP on my new system, simply because I still don't really believe in Win7 and have lots of experience with XP. If I can find a valid copy of it, it may cost a little more, but at least I'll be able to avoid problems like these. And I still think an HD-5870 is preferable to a GTX-460 from both performance and noise perspectives - I wouldn't even consider the earlier Fermi cards for the reasons you stated,
Ro
 
XP3 + GTS 250 1GB memory overclocked w/257.15 driver + i7 930 processor + Gigabyte X58A mobo + DDR3 Corsair memory = a stone cold killer!...Vsync NoProb!

I dBoot both XP3 and W7...both sytems rock on this rig but i prefer to do my heavy lifting in XP3. :wiggle:
 
I've considered the dual boot option as I own a copy of XP Pro. Still, I want a good, reliable, powerful system for down the road.
 
Well when it comes to video card, I'd highly recomend the GTX 460. Its not a power house like the GTX 470 or GTX 480, but I'm down right impressed with it so far.

I've ran 8 of Ivan's I-16s versus 8 stock Zeros around stock Henderson with Rhumba's mesh and the lowest frame rate I saw was 33. BTW that's at a resolution of 1680X1024 and with 16 AA and 16Q AF enabled.

Only issue I'm having is that my systems like to randomly shuts down. Typically when its booting in to windows or when I'm just surfing the web or looking at files on my PC. It hasn't done it when I've been running games like CFS2 or IL2, weird I know. I'f I'd expect to see a PSU issue I'd expect it when its running heavy At first I thought the issues were with the new card, but if that were the case I'd expect artifacting, the display itself shutting off but the system keeps running, or the card just going bonkers, which it doesn't. But the card it useing a PCI-E power connector I've really never used, and my PSU is 3 years old, though I've never ran it 24/7.

I've tried reinstalling drivers, checking all the electrical connections in my system, and now I've reset the CMOS settings. So far the systems been stable after resetting the CMOS, but we will wait and see...

...I don't want to buy a PSU right now....
 
bearcat241 said:
XP3 + GTS 250 1GB memory overclocked w/257.15 driver + i7 930 processor + Gigabyte X58A mobo + DDR3 Corsair memory = a stone cold killer!...Vsync NoProb!

I dBoot both XP3 and W7...both sytems rock on this rig but i prefer to do my heavy lifting in XP3. :wiggle:
Click to expand...
Woah! From what I'm reading she sounds like a real Cadillac. So I take it that you're happy with it. ;)

Something I had seen before but do not quite understand yet is a new terminology for FSB. "QPI 6.4GT/S". A benefit for quad cores and up? From the little I have read so far, it looks like a dozen or so more lanes in the highway of flow.

Regardless of that...it looks like you've got yourself a sweet set-up there Bc. Now when can you build me one...:icon_lol:

Dave
 
bearcat241 said:
XP3 + GTS 250 1GB memory overclocked w/257.15 driver + i7 930 processor + Gigabyte X58A mobo + DDR3 Corsair memory = a stone cold killer!...Vsync NoProb!:
Click to expand...

That's very helpful to get your specs, as well as Wulf190's comments on this card. There's a part of me that feels buying a new system specked out similar to this is like going to the car dealer and buying last year's model; it might be very nice and get you where you want to go but it doesn't have all of the latest technology which you'll appreciate as time goes by. (Then again, why buy a Lexus when a Camry will do everything you need).

I've followed this board over the years and I know some people talk of frame rates in the 60's 70's and even 100+. I have never, seen frame rates like that ever and I've been flying CFS2 since it came out. The best I've ever gotten is 50+ in Free Flight over stock scenery. Combat with stock planes was in the 30's. Over the years with addon planes, etc. I've watched them steadily drop into the teens. Today I can't get out of single digits, thus the need for a new system. CFS3 has never been more than a slide show (even though my system is 5-8 times more "powerful" than MS's minimum specs).

One concern I have is that CFS2 is so old now that it isn't designed to take advantage of the newer technology in chips and video cards and as a result too modern of a system can be counterproductive to running CFS2. For example, I've read that CFS3 (OFF) isn't designed to use more than one core, so dual and quad core systems offer no increase in game performance. Any thoughts on this?

I should mention that I don't have the luxury of having a dedicated gaming system. This box must also handle Web surfing, email, word processing, spreadsheets, storage, photo and video editing, etc.; all of the usual suspects. But I want it to be a gaming unit at its core.

My apologies Wulf190 for hijacking your thread, but I am glad you asked the question about vid cards.
 
dvslats said:
Are you running a quad core with the rig you have?
Click to expand...


Yup, though CFS2 only treats my quad core as a it like a single core.

And Cody, your right, CFS2 will treat even a Hex core CPU like a single core, and will not detect SLI /cross-fire configurations, or dual video card configurations. But CFS2 still reaps the benefits of new technology. Faster, smaller CPU better performance, more memory better system performance stability, better video card better eye cand with less perfromance loss (providing that the card will still support CFS2's build architecture).

In my last upgrade, I did not see much of a jump in performance when I went from a Intel C2D E8400 locked at 3.6GHZ to a Intel Core i7 930 at stock when using the same video card, a 8800GTS 512. My guess is that the C2D at 3.6GHZ and the Core i7 at stock offer similar CPU power. And at that point it really does not matter, CFS2, IL2 1946, and FS9 on my 'old' rig were performing great. I just wanted to build a new computer system.

The real increase in system performance I have seen so far is going from a 8800 GTS 512MB to a GTX 460 1GB card. I dunno really what the performance increase was in FS9 and IL2 other then to say right now both run great. CFS2 is where I saw the numbers increase, which is still impressive to see for a 10 year old game.
 
Yeah DV, its a sweet ride. I could've built it as something higher up the food chain, but at a higher cost also. I set a budget of no more than $1300 and was determined to keep it. From a cost vs benefits POV, it delivers enough punch in all of my fav sims and games to keep them interesting without spending mad money on it. BTW, regarding QPI, here's some insight: http://www.eggxpert.com/forums/thread/425524.aspx

Wulf, these days, its not always about how many processors you have, but how many threads per processor. The latest tech is currently offering two per chip, although that may increase as 6-core tech continues to develop. Which takes me to Cody's comment about the Lexus vs Camry debate. Its all in the mobo, Bro...everything begins and ends with it. If you buy a scalable MB that can take on future tech -- or at least the things on the near horizon -- you can easily and economically turn any Camry into a Lexus with a few component upgrades.

The X58A i use is a highly versatile and scalable board claimed to have 6-core capacity -- you know, near horizon stuff. It also has USB 3.0 and some other goodies that will accommodate future tech. The previous system i built was initially constructed in 2002 around an MSI mobo, which eventually gave way to a Foxconn, with continuous upgrades of all other system components over an 8 year period. Every new component was addressed by mobo compatibility first.
 
Wondering...

Hey guys, I've got a quick question.
I've read also that CFS2 will only use one core out of a multi-core rig....but what about the video card?
Is that controlled by the application also...or do the graphics drivers play a part in the scheme of things ie tapping into another core if needed. :ques:
 
If you run CFS2 with a quad core, and an SLI set-up (two Nvidia cards connected together), CFS2 will utilize only one core of the CPU and will use only one video card. The game was not coded to use a multi core CPU or an SLI or Crossfire (ATI's version of SLI) set-up.

the only current flight simulator that I know of that uses a multi core cpu is FSX, and still FSX will not utilize a SLI or cross-fire setup.
 
All In The Code

Hi Wulf,
So it's all in the code of the sim, eh?

Thanks for clarifying. :ernae:
Dave
 
dvslats said:
Hi Wulf,
So it's all in the code of the sim, eh?

Thanks for clarifying. :ernae:
Dave
Click to expand...


Yup. CFS2 was created in DirectX 7 or 8, and when CPUs were single cores, and video cards had no more the 32MB of ram on the board and that ran on a 64bit memory bus. So CFS2 doesn't have the necessary programing to take advantage of today's high-end technology. (by that I mean multi core CPUs, and multi card setups. CFS2 will always benefit by more CPU power, more RAM, and by faster and 'larger' video cards)

CFS2 will finally die, not because of the lack of interest in this community, but when computer advance far enough to where the Operating systems, and video card will no longer read the coding for CFS2. Its already happening with Windows 7. The black arrow when CFS2 loads in game, the sim doesn't like loading in other player aircraft while in game (it will lock it up and you have to restart CFS2, loading player aircraft in the menus is fine), and the inability for ATI cards to turn off Vsync. Heck CFS2 was even wigging out when my GTX460 was running the game as 1680X1050. I was to change the resolution to 1680X1024 for the 2d panels to stop distorting.


Don't get me wrong CFS2 runs perfect on an XP rig, but XP will be not support by 2014 (if not sooner). So might as well learn CFS2's limitation on Windows 7 and for now it runs just fine.
 
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