News on the old Alpha BAC TSR2 and Others

M

mal998

Charter Member
Today I received a correspondence from the owner of the old Alpha TSR2, Dave Hanvey. The last time I heard from him was probably 3 years ago at which time I asked if he would allow me to put a team together in order to upgrade his work to be released as freeware. In my response today I asked if it would be ok to post his email for the forum to see. I am awaiting a response. So, if this is to move ahead I will need to hear from those members who possess the necessary skills to bring this old favorite (and others) up to speed. I suppose that means folks who know how to work on the old model which was built in FSDS and those who know how to rebuild a VC. Milton and crew come to mind but this will be a big undertaking so I guess we'll have to wait and see how it pans out. BTW, there are several projects he owns the rights to i.e, EE Lightnings, TSR2, Sepecat Jaguars (possibly if Remi gives his permission), F20 Tigershark, Hawker P1127

To be continued...

mal
 
TBH I consider an outright rebuild utopic for general lack of time or interest by most devs, but I figure that those savvy in ModelConverter might just convert a few of the models into FSX/P3D native format as demonstrated by the F-8, F-101, etc.
 
Now that brings back memories. The ALPHA TSR2 was one of the first payware planes I bought for FS9. I took my copy and added some mods to the panel, changed the sounds... etc. I had Dave Hanvey's blessing when I converted his FS2002 Hawker Sea Fury to work in CFS2, over 8 YEARS ago! (prolly more than that!)

I think Dave would be agreeable with this, and the venerable ALPHA TSR2, even though it's still a very good representation of the real bird, has gotten a little long in the tooth. The TSR2 would be a long overdue addition to FSX, IMO.

BB686:US-flag:
 
Is he the one who did the Iris F-20? I would love an update of the model with an accurate two seater and a more accurate cockpit. Maybe even a production version with the bigger wing.
 
I use FSDS 3.5.1 so would be familiar with the build requirements, but I don't know whether it's worth taking on a full rebuild of any such older aircraft, as the existing models can easily be converted to FSX / P3D standard using Model Converter X, with the model owner's permission. While at it, extras can also be added such as specular, fresnel, bumps etc if they're not already present, so there's no need to head back into FSDS other than to redo the virtual cockpits to bring them up to date. I'll keep an eye on this thread as it's certainly something that I might have an interest in.

As an aside, I have an FSX / P3D native Sepecat Jaguar GR3 / T3 in the works, which is lined up for freeware release around late 2019 - early 2020.
 
DC1973 said:
I use FSDS 3.5.1 so would be familiar with the build requirements, but I don't know whether it's worth taking on a full rebuild of any such older aircraft, as the existing models can easily be converted to FSX / P3D standard using Model Converter X, with the model owner's permission. While at it, extras can also be added such as specular, fresnel, bumps etc if they're not already present, so there's no need to head back into FSDS other than to redo the virtual cockpits to bring them up to date. I'll keep an eye on this thread as it's certainly something that I might have an interest in.

As an aside, I have an FSX / P3D native Sepecat Jaguar GR3 / T3 in the works, which is lined up for freeware release around late 2019 - early 2020.
Click to expand...

I had a look at the Alpha TSR2 a couple of years ago but it was beyond my very limited MCX capabilities. But as part of that exercise, I bought a nice monograph on it and did a stencil walkaround on the one at Duxford. Had another look this week but there are, for me, a number of issues I can't seem to resolve. First there are lights that are built in and I can't remove (they don't show up in MCX). Second the nosewheel extension is modelled :)encouragement:) which means the whole model is an animation and more difficult to work with :)banghead:). Added to which the model itself is showing its age. So, for these reasons, I'm awaiting Rob Richardson's version and I'm out!

DaveQ
 
DaveQ said:
I had a look at the Alpha TSR2 a couple of years ago but it was beyond my very limited MCX capabilities. But as part of that exercise, I bought a nice monograph on it and did a stencil walkaround on the one at Duxford. Had another look this week but there are, for me, a number of issues I can't seem to resolve. First there are lights that are built in and I can't remove (they don't show up in MCX). Second the nosewheel extension is modelled :)encouragement:) which means the whole model is an animation and more difficult to work with :)banghead:). Added to which the model itself is showing its age. So, for these reasons, I'm awaiting Rob Richardson's version and I'm out!

DaveQ
Click to expand...

Sounds like there are some assets that MCX can't access or alter. Besides, if that model looks old now then it's probably time to move on.

Ah, I didn't know that Rob was working on a new one too. Does Mal know? I did check this out and Rob appears to have given up on it for now, as per some 2017 posts on another forum. It would appear that the sim TSR 2 suffers from many of the same issues as its real-world version!

Will see what Mal has to show me in terms of the existing FSDS model / VC. Once I get an idea of where it's at right now, I'll have an idea of what can be done with it.
 
If Rob is working on a new TSR2 then it might make sense to wait for his version rather than start mucking about with Dave's older version.
 
mal998 said:
If Rob is working on a new TSR2 then it might make sense to wait for his version rather than start mucking about with Dave's older version.
Click to expand...
Rob has moved entirely to P3D builds with his latest Meteor. I for one would like to see the TSR2 rebuilt for FSXA.

A few weeks ago I played around with porting over my TSR2 from FS9 to FSX and gave up after awhile as some of the gauges just didn't work. The exterior model looked great, but the FDE also needed some tweaking.

Lets keep things to FSX, okay?
 
WarHorse47 said:
Rob has moved entirely to P3D builds with his latest Meteor. I for one would like to see the TSR2 rebuilt for FSXA.

A few weeks ago I played around with porting over my TSR2 from FS9 to FSX and gave up after awhile as some of the gauges just didn't work. The exterior model looked great, but the FDE also needed some tweaking.

Lets keep things to FSX, okay?
Click to expand...
The gauges are xml based so they should even work in P3Dv4. They do look very dated though -- 14 years since original release. The entire cockpit is very FS9-ish and could use a rebuilding. If it had a separate interior it could be swapped out for something like a Tornado perhaps. Maybe one of the ModelConverterX gurus, lazarus or hschuit, can fix it up a bit.

The external model still looks good and the animations seemed fine. The flight model was a little wishy washy on approach though but I may have still had too much fuel on board.

Have always liked this aircraft. Hopefully it can get a new lease on life.
:ernaehrung004:
 
DaveQ said:
First there are lights that are built in and I can't remove (they don't show up in MCX). Second the nosewheel extension is modelled :)encouragement:) which means the whole model is an animation and more difficult to work with :)banghead:).
Click to expand...

I'd be amazed if these weren't resolvable in MCX.
 
I've already done some work on the FDE so that shouldn't be too much of a problem. We are starting to set up a work schedule and figure out exactly what needs to be done.
 
Custom XML animation code in FS9 MDL files can be recovered using a hex editor. It's a mess in terms of formatting, but variables and mathematical operators are plain visible.

Not sure how prone Alphasim was to using custom XML code. It could very well be that nose wheel extension was controlled by something trivial, e.g. the default wing fold animation.
 
I became really interested in TSR2, reading everything I could find on the subject and was fired up to get the model finished.
The main landing gears are like nothing else on earth, they must weigh tons!
The prototype was nearly lost in a landing gear malfunction.
I could have told the designers that they would have trouble with them but sadly my opinion meant nothing.
After some pain I managed to get them working on the model, to a point.
Although it has the appearance of some sort of futuristic missile on the ground once in simulated air it looks less appealing!
Enthusiasm for the project began to ebb away.
I would have money on it that they realized it was a lost cause and cancelled it for that reason.
I still fly it around the "Mach Loop" from time to time and may go back to it but not in the foreseeable future.

RobR
 
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