The B24 Guy
SOH-CM-2022
Hi Rami,
Your confg and airfile are different than mine.
Try this set.
Regards,
B24Guy
Your confg and airfile are different than mine.
Try this set.
Regards,
B24Guy
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OH_B-24J_Liberator by The B24 Guy and Allen!
- Thread starter Rami
- Start date
The B24 Guy did not use AI bombs in the OH B-24D. I re-downloaded it to make sure since I use stock weapons for the most part. The OH B-24D uses Guns Only, Bombs Heavy *8 1000lbs*, Bombs Medium *16 500lbs*, Bombs Light *16 250lbs) and Bombs 250lb (2 Salvos) *each Salvo is 16 250lb bombs when droped by the player*
So the DP you have is not the OH B-24D DP. Also the airfile and aircraft.cfg you sent me dose have the lead aircraft oscillate. Even if I fly it and use the auto pilot with Alt Hold it will oscillate at first than smooth out.
I'm attaching my whole OH B-24 that is not oscillating with a new name (B24D_LIBERATOR_TEST folder name and B-24D Liberator TEST in-game. I added the AI bombs (2X_HAL_AI_Bombs) to the OH B-24D DP as a 6th payload. Try using this aircraft since maybe something about yours is messing things up.
View attachment 1800
So the DP you have is not the OH B-24D DP. Also the airfile and aircraft.cfg you sent me dose have the lead aircraft oscillate. Even if I fly it and use the auto pilot with Alt Hold it will oscillate at first than smooth out.
I'm attaching my whole OH B-24 that is not oscillating with a new name (B24D_LIBERATOR_TEST folder name and B-24D Liberator TEST in-game. I added the AI bombs (2X_HAL_AI_Bombs) to the OH B-24D DP as a 6th payload. Try using this aircraft since maybe something about yours is messing things up.
View attachment 1800
Blood_Hawk23
Charter Member
Rami,
Is this a player aircraft or an AI?
I thought we were talking about an AI. but everything that seems to be going on is for a Player. changing the Aircraft.cfg wont help the AI.
sorry I'm just a little confused is all.
Is this a player aircraft or an AI?
I thought we were talking about an AI. but everything that seems to be going on is for a Player. changing the Aircraft.cfg wont help the AI.
sorry I'm just a little confused is all.
Interesting discussion.
I downloaded the aircraft package and found generally it is a pretty well handling flight model.
Looking at AFSD, I noticed CoG is at the wing's leading edge reading a -1.xx where it should be 25% MAC.
Also the fuel tanks are placed well behind CoG, cruise attitude was very positive, and htail incidence a bit negative.
Flying straight and level seemed easy enough though.
So, I set about adjust CoG, Fuel weight, and adjusted slightly the htail incidence.
This moved CoG back to ~25%, give a more correct looking cruise attitude, and improved in-flight stability.
I will finish up tweaks and testing later today.
If anyone would like to try the flight model to see if it responds any better, I will attach it here.
The only thing I cannot test is the effect of the added DP weight (if that gets added), but I did not change anything that would affect offsets for the dp file.
I downloaded the aircraft package and found generally it is a pretty well handling flight model.
Looking at AFSD, I noticed CoG is at the wing's leading edge reading a -1.xx where it should be 25% MAC.
Also the fuel tanks are placed well behind CoG, cruise attitude was very positive, and htail incidence a bit negative.
Flying straight and level seemed easy enough though.
So, I set about adjust CoG, Fuel weight, and adjusted slightly the htail incidence.
This moved CoG back to ~25%, give a more correct looking cruise attitude, and improved in-flight stability.
I will finish up tweaks and testing later today.
If anyone would like to try the flight model to see if it responds any better, I will attach it here.
The only thing I cannot test is the effect of the added DP weight (if that gets added), but I did not change anything that would affect offsets for the dp file.
Reply...
Blood_Hawk23,
Okay, that's a fair question. The problem may not be with the aircraft, it may be with my tweaking abilities. What I am essentially trying to do is use The B24 Guy's Liberator and modify her to specifications for the "J" model. This includes correcting engine and fuel data, as well as the aircraft weight.
The dry weight for the B-24D is 32,000 lbs. For the B-24j, It is 36,500 lbs. I made the adjustment in both the aircraft.cfg, and the 1101 (Primary aerodynamics) section of the airfile.
I verified and/or modified the engine data, including manifold pressure maximums, compression ratios, RPM, displacement, and number of cylinders.
I used the altered .dp file to ensure that you can use AI bombs to get maximum destructive power.
The trouble is, every time I get the numbers right, the video happens. It's something I'm doing, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what.
And to answer your question, it's being used as AI. For the Battle for Europe mission / Tidal Wave mission / Operation Juggler mission, I use the K. Malinowski B-24D or J, manually editing the mission so that the only one using it is the player aircraft, all other aircraft in your flight and the other formations use The B24 Guy's OH model.
The D version performs flawlessly.
Blood_Hawk23,
Okay, that's a fair question. The problem may not be with the aircraft, it may be with my tweaking abilities. What I am essentially trying to do is use The B24 Guy's Liberator and modify her to specifications for the "J" model. This includes correcting engine and fuel data, as well as the aircraft weight.
The dry weight for the B-24D is 32,000 lbs. For the B-24j, It is 36,500 lbs. I made the adjustment in both the aircraft.cfg, and the 1101 (Primary aerodynamics) section of the airfile.
I verified and/or modified the engine data, including manifold pressure maximums, compression ratios, RPM, displacement, and number of cylinders.
I used the altered .dp file to ensure that you can use AI bombs to get maximum destructive power.
The trouble is, every time I get the numbers right, the video happens. It's something I'm doing, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what.
And to answer your question, it's being used as AI. For the Battle for Europe mission / Tidal Wave mission / Operation Juggler mission, I use the K. Malinowski B-24D or J, manually editing the mission so that the only one using it is the player aircraft, all other aircraft in your flight and the other formations use The B24 Guy's OH model.
The D version performs flawlessly.
Oglivie
Charter Member
Rami,
Perhaps these may work okay for you.
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?49151-B-24-amp-PB4Y-Air-Files-for-CFS2
I'm not sure if the engine manifold pressure, RPM and compresson are accurate for the J in this DL. However, the files were tuned for max airspeed at altitude and service ceiling for the various Malinowski B-24/PB4Y aircraft and my testing did not show pitch oscilation. Maybe they may work for your campaign?
Added Edit:
I forgot to mention that the fuel is also adjusted for the individual versions based on the publications I have. I don't recall the difference between the B-24J and H versions, but the performance and fuel specs I have for both versions are the same.
Perhaps these may work okay for you.
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?49151-B-24-amp-PB4Y-Air-Files-for-CFS2
I'm not sure if the engine manifold pressure, RPM and compresson are accurate for the J in this DL. However, the files were tuned for max airspeed at altitude and service ceiling for the various Malinowski B-24/PB4Y aircraft and my testing did not show pitch oscilation. Maybe they may work for your campaign?
Added Edit:
I forgot to mention that the fuel is also adjusted for the individual versions based on the publications I have. I don't recall the difference between the B-24J and H versions, but the performance and fuel specs I have for both versions are the same.
Reply...
Oglivie,
They can, but I'm trying to see if I can get the OH model working to my liking, because it is more FPS friendly.
I'll sure look at them, though. Thanks!
Oglivie,
They can, but I'm trying to see if I can get the OH model working to my liking, because it is more FPS friendly.
I'll sure look at them, though. Thanks!
Oglivie
Charter Member
Rami,
I have a few suggestions for the DL that may work for the OH. Just maybe it may work if you want to check it out.
For the OH, The Air file maybe okay as is from the DownLoad, but the air cfg of course would not work for the OH without some modification.
For the OH air cfg; the [flight_tuning], [piston_engine], [propeller] and Moments of Inertia in the [WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE] sections (seems I maybe forgetting something else though) should be changed to the same specs as in the DL air cfg sections. Those air cfg sections are of course tuned to the DL Air file.
Best Regards
I have a few suggestions for the DL that may work for the OH. Just maybe it may work if you want to check it out.
For the OH, The Air file maybe okay as is from the DownLoad, but the air cfg of course would not work for the OH without some modification.
For the OH air cfg; the [flight_tuning], [piston_engine], [propeller] and Moments of Inertia in the [WEIGHT_AND_BALANCE] sections (seems I maybe forgetting something else though) should be changed to the same specs as in the DL air cfg sections. Those air cfg sections are of course tuned to the DL Air file.
Best Regards
Blood_Hawk23
Charter Member
if you have all of the info correct in the .air file, we can make a new cfg from the airfile.
all i have to do is open it up in FSedit and it will make the cfg from the airfile data. once that is done all i'll have to do is copy it to the cfg. FS2002 like to add too much info to the CFGs. hence the copy and paste.
from that we can see the difference between the original and the modified versions.
have you checked the MOI at all. there will be differences if the dry weight is increased.
I'll play with it tonite and see what i get.
all i have to do is open it up in FSedit and it will make the cfg from the airfile data. once that is done all i'll have to do is copy it to the cfg. FS2002 like to add too much info to the CFGs. hence the copy and paste.
from that we can see the difference between the original and the modified versions.
have you checked the MOI at all. there will be differences if the dry weight is increased.
I'll play with it tonite and see what i get.
Blood_Hawk23
Charter Member
Here is the CFG strait from the airfile that Rami posted. I've done nothing to it. but maybe we can see if there is a difference in it. the MOIs will be low but thats fine. its the other dynamics that are of interest.
I'll post it for someone else to look at and figure out. View attachment B24D_LIBERATOR-files.zip
let me know what you find.
I'll post it for someone else to look at and figure out. View attachment B24D_LIBERATOR-files.zip
let me know what you find.
Oglivie
Charter Member
I do not know if it may effect level bombing or glide bombing as much, but it may. I had stability settings fairly stiff in the DL B-24/PB4Y files. I tested them in MB for the formation's flight chacteristics and did not test them in a bomb run attack. I know for dive bombing the stability becomes much more of an issue, but I'm not entirely sure about level and glide bombing.
I think Milton has an air setup that will work perhaps in his post.
Here's some info I collected from previous threads. It's mostly posts by Talon I think. Some probably already have this info, but for those that don't I'll repost it here:
Quote
MOI settings that are true to life can cause an AI to auger in because the sim cannot pull it out a dive. It's also the single largest reason that AIs will refuse to deliver bombs or weapons on a target.....because the sim knows it cannot pull the aircraft out of the dive.
Experienced the same thing....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon
I've found that the Nell,Betty and B-25 won't drop bombs doing anti ship attacks but the Avenger and Kate will.If a ship is an infrastucture they all attack with full bomb loads.
Talon
...playing with the B-26B and the TU-2. If I got them to drop torpedoes and bombs on anti-ship missions, they would not fire rockets....until I changed the category. Then they would fire rockets, but would not deliver torpedoes.
When the category is setup for a level bomber, they will drop bombs on an anti-ship mission, but not on the moving ship.....only on the point the ship occupied at the beginning of the mission. As in your experience, they would accurately bomb infrastructure ships.
Still the mystery remains as to why aircraft of the same family and category fail to react uniformly to a change in category....i.e. having to also change the AIR file in some to get the desired results, while not in others. There is something we are missing in the AIR or CFG files with respect to this.
Family=2, Category=2 on B-24 & B-25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talon
If you set category to 10 and family to 2 and come in at a low alt.(1500ft or less)they will drop all bombs and glide attack even with enemy aircraft around.
Talon
Looking at the list of Families and Categories in my earlier post, changing Family to 2 and Category to 2 or 10 might be all that is necessary to fix the bombers.
I've tried category 2 with no success but 10 worked fine for me.
Talon
Blood_Hawk23
Charter Member
off topic... slightly...
MOIs - My observations.
The MOIs play a large part in the AIs handling abilities. If you think of it in terms of weight when pulled in a direction then the less you have the easier it is. Simple...
What I have found is, if you lower the MOI, then the AI will start to exceed the limits of the flight dynamics. They will stall in a climb. They will roll and side slip (of sorts). However if you go too low they will hang in the air. Almost like there is no gravity. Or they won't make a tight turn. I've also seen them having trouble climbing or maintaining altitude. Which is wierd. It probably has to do with physics. Who knows.
Normally they can handle 1/2 to 1/4 less of the players MOI values. Below 1/4 is where things get wierd. At some point you can't go any lower. If you were to enter 0's for the values then it may not act any different then the lowest value that it started. I have not entered 0's but i've gone to less then 100 for the MOI.
These are only my observations from changing the MOIs.
Ok I'll get back on topic now...
MOIs - My observations.
The MOIs play a large part in the AIs handling abilities. If you think of it in terms of weight when pulled in a direction then the less you have the easier it is. Simple...
What I have found is, if you lower the MOI, then the AI will start to exceed the limits of the flight dynamics. They will stall in a climb. They will roll and side slip (of sorts). However if you go too low they will hang in the air. Almost like there is no gravity. Or they won't make a tight turn. I've also seen them having trouble climbing or maintaining altitude. Which is wierd. It probably has to do with physics. Who knows.
Normally they can handle 1/2 to 1/4 less of the players MOI values. Below 1/4 is where things get wierd. At some point you can't go any lower. If you were to enter 0's for the values then it may not act any different then the lowest value that it started. I have not entered 0's but i've gone to less then 100 for the MOI.
These are only my observations from changing the MOIs.
Ok I'll get back on topic now...
I did quick look over of the airfile Rami has back on page 2. I'm not sure if it was based on the CFS2 B-24D or the old CFS1 B-24J but it is missing a number of data lines (20 or more).
I'm attahing a new B-24 set up as J model. I fixed the manifold pressure that was lower from what I could find in B-24 manuals, added WEP that will boost manifold pressure up to 53 and HP up to 1350. The only fuel data I could find was 2364 gals in the main tanks and 425 gals in the wings. (AI dosn't use any fuel data as I did test by shifting the fuel way forward and way left so it can change it if needed)
View attachment 1830
I'm attahing a new B-24 set up as J model. I fixed the manifold pressure that was lower from what I could find in B-24 manuals, added WEP that will boost manifold pressure up to 53 and HP up to 1350. The only fuel data I could find was 2364 gals in the main tanks and 425 gals in the wings. (AI dosn't use any fuel data as I did test by shifting the fuel way forward and way left so it can change it if needed)
View attachment 1830
The B24 Guy
SOH-CM-2022
Hi Rami and All,
The airfiles I included in the upload were made to try to be the best for both player and AI.
The AI will both takeoff and land. They are not as "real" as they could be, but they feel ok for me when flying.
Regards,
B24Guy
The airfiles I included in the upload were made to try to be the best for both player and AI.
The AI will both takeoff and land. They are not as "real" as they could be, but they feel ok for me when flying.
Regards,
B24Guy
Reply...
Allen,
Many thanks, my friend. The "test" version is quite suitable. There is ever so slight oscillation, but it's less than fifty feet either way and not enough to cause any problems, even in close quarters. This will be the version I will use for my late Europe works.
Now, to both you and The B24 Guy....can I either include this with my campaigns, or can Allen upload this modification / variant to SOH for general use?
I am forever in your debts for assisting me with this, I know I can be a bit fastidious at times.
Allen,
Many thanks, my friend. The "test" version is quite suitable. There is ever so slight oscillation, but it's less than fifty feet either way and not enough to cause any problems, even in close quarters. This will be the version I will use for my late Europe works.
Now, to both you and The B24 Guy....can I either include this with my campaigns, or can Allen upload this modification / variant to SOH for general use?
I am forever in your debts for assisting me with this, I know I can be a bit fastidious at times.
I saw no oscillation but I wasn't using auto pilot or any thing like that so if they are moving it is not a lot of movement. Test Repot: I used the Auto Pilot with Alt Hold and still no movement with the the attached Test B-24J as I tucked my self right behind and under the lead aircraft (Robin Hood).
I know both still have the OH parts but you can use the Airacraft.cfg and airfile from both as you need. The other parts you will need to ask The B24 Guy about.
I know both still have the OH parts but you can use the Airacraft.cfg and airfile from both as you need. The other parts you will need to ask The B24 Guy about.
Blood_Hawk23
Charter Member
Allen, Rami,
What realism settings are you flying under? if either of you have different settings then you won't see the same thing. You probably already knew that.
What realism settings are you flying under? if either of you have different settings then you won't see the same thing. You probably already knew that.