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Osprey makes unwanted big arrival

aeromed202

aeromed202

SOH-CM-2014


From EMS1.com

10 injured in Memorial Day aircraft show in NYCAn Osprey MV-22 aircraft sent debris flying into a crowd as it landed

<STYLE>.related-content-container a{font-size: 11px;}</STYLE>By Jennifer Peltz
The Ledger
NEW YORK — A U.S. Marine Corps aircraft's powerful propellers whipped up a wind that sent branches hurling off a tree and into a crowd of about 150 people watching a Memorial Day demonstration in a park, leaving 10 people with cuts and other minor injuries, officials and a witness said.
As the Osprey MV-22 aircraft landed at Staten Island's Clove Lakes Park on Monday morning, the wind generated by its twin rotors stirred tree limbs, dirt from a nearby baseball field and other debris into a swirl that sent spectators scattering, witness Ann Hirsch said.
"It was like a storm of sand and garbage and people running," said Hirsch, 66, of Staten Island. "Branches just came down. They were all over the park. ... It was really scary."
One tree lost all its branches on one side.
The MV-22 is a Marine Corps version of the V-22, which combines airplane-like wings with rotors that let it take off and land vertically. It "stirs up a lot of wind, and that's apparently what did it," Marine Corps spokesman Lt. Josh Diddams said.
Seven people were taken to a hospital and were released later Monday, Navy officials said in a release. Three other people refused medical attention for their injuries, firefighters said.
The V-22, a joint venture of Boeing Co. and Textron Inc.'s Bell Helicopter, is designed to carry 24 combat troops and fly twice as fast as the Vietnam War-era assault helicopters it was to replace.
The Osprey program was nearly scrapped after a history of mechanical failures and two test crashes that killed 23 Marines in 2000. But development continued, and the aircraft have been deployed to Iraq.
While the General Accounting Office questioned the V-22's performance in a report last year, the Marine Corps has called it effective.
======================================================================
Maybe NY needs to keep up on arbor chores.
 
I gess people haven't figure out that Osprey is not a helicopter and it has more wash from it blades.

/In before the Osprey haters.....:kilroy:
 
I hope this doesn't get out of hand or stir up litigation. Surely those people deserve apologies, and in the gentlemanly tradition of the modern military, I'll bet personal apologies will be given if they haven't already. It shouldn't go any further than that unless gross negligence was displayed. I'll await a video at the minimum before I speculate upon whether the crew were jerks. Everyone I ever met tried extremely hard to be good neighbors with their loud and dangerous military toys whenever possible.
 
Tig delivers:

[YOUTUBE]i4iw2-n-Uzc[/YOUTUBE]




My verdict? The alarmist, scandal seeking, military hating media strikes again. The reports are WAY overboard unless there's a lot more I'm not seeing. A sincere apology is what is deserved, and I have full confidence they will get one from from, at the minimum, the aircraft commander.
 
Wasnt the commanders fault tig.. Look where he landed. he was in perfect deployment position behind the first osprey. That means the wing commander didnt plan the first ospreys landing spot well enough.. The pilot was perfect, did his absolute gentlest, but he was positioned wrong for that landing and that falls on the wing commander or whatever the marines call them..
 
Rotor LZ's have a red zone where debris can be kicked up and cause injuries and protective gear should be in place/utilized for those in the red zone. The V-22's vortex is higher velocity and more constricted than regular rotor downwash. Seeing this up close at New River and Camp Davis told me the V-22 is exceptional for debris blast risk. Nothing to play with!
 
warchild said:
Wasnt the commanders fault tig.. Look where he landed. he was in perfect deployment position behind the first osprey. That means the wing commander didnt plan the first ospreys landing spot well enough.. The pilot was perfect, did his absolute gentlest, but he was positioned wrong for that landing and that falls on the wing commander or whatever the marines call them..
Click to expand...

I don't know about the USMC, but in the USAF a wing commander (0-6) isn't likely to assume all the mission planning details, because they would never have time to. Personally, I was referring to the aircraft commander, with I've seen at the Captain level with large crews like the MV-22 features. My spidey sense is tingling, there must be a communication breakdown between us somewhere....
 
That was WAY too close. Soon as I saw the Osprey crest the trees I knew it was WAY too close. Did you see the large branch with green leaves laying in front of the crowd!

Oh yeah, that was dangerous!

Whoever planned that display should be disciplined. It was grossly negligent and we are very fortunate no one was seroiusly injured and in the hospital.

The pilot also is the blame because as the aircraft commander he is primarily responsible to ensure he operates his aircraft so as not to be a hazard to the public. So, even if he was ordered to do it, it doesn't matter. It does not relieve the pilot in command of his basic requirements under federal law, and federal laws do apply to the military. There are waivers to the FAR allocated to the military, but those waivers do not include rules about hazarding the public.

Ken
 
Here's another view - it's a good way to defoliate alright!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc3_1275329146
I'm intrigued...the Chinook surely must've come in the same way, yet it didn't look as if the place had been shredded before.
Why then does the Osprey have such a devastating effect?

EDIT: I went looking, disk loading might be a clue:
Osprey is: 20.9 lb/ft²
Chinook: 9.5 lb/ft²

I don't like that Osprey thing methinks, love the Chinook.
 
Wing_Z said:
Here's another view - it's a good way to defoliate alright!
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bc3_1275329146
I'm intrigued...the Chinook surely must've come in the same way, yet it didn't look as if the place had been shredded before.
Why then does the Osprey have such a devastating effect?

EDIT: I went looking, disk loading might be a clue:
Osprey is: 20.9 lb/ft²
Chinook: 9.5 lb/ft²

I don't like that Osprey thing methinks, love the Chinook.
Click to expand...

It's not a Chinook, it's a Sea Knight, so the correct figure would be 4.2 lb/ft².
 
Wow,it shredded that tree.I have never been near a Chinook when it landed but have seen an HH 53 Super Stallion land (forgive me if my terminology is incorrect,I'm a tanker) and that was a bit breezy.

Stood behind a B-17 that was taxing,holy cow.:d
 
Not exactly one of Marine Aviation's stellar moments. :frown: Somebody could have been seriously injured. And these things operate from amphib ships... don't think I'd want to be a flight deck crewman.
 
Not sure where it was going to or coming from but I saw one fly over the house here in New Castle yesterday around 11am. Could have laneded over at the airport tho for fuel.... but it looked like it just kept heading north towards PA.

That's the first time I've ever seen one in the air. Impressive, and doesn't look like anything else I've seen fly. Those props are huge, and with each one rotating opposite each other and towards the wings tips, it does look weird.
 
Frankly, I saw nothing wrong with the approach and landing. The second video shows the pilot was well above the trees. The small tree just split down the middle. He or the person who set up the display had no way of knowing the tree would split, like it did.

I doubt that every time an Osprey lands it knocks down trees.

To me it was more about bad luck than negligence. Of course, the lawyers will have a different opinion.
 
Chris H said:
It's not a Chinook, it's a Sea Knight, so the correct figure would be 4.2 lb/ft².
Click to expand...

Of course, Marines...I should've thought.
Disk load even lower, so no warning there.
I guess after that incident, Ospreys will be limited in where they deploy for public display.
 
jmig said:
Frankly, I saw nothing wrong with the approach and landing. The second video shows the pilot was well above the trees. The small tree just split down the middle. He or the person who set up the display had no way of knowing the tree would split, like it did.

I doubt that every time an Osprey lands it knocks down trees.

To me it was more about bad luck than negligence. Of course, the lawyers will have a different opinion.
Click to expand...

I agree. But, as it is with aviation, this incident will foster a number of rule and policy changes.
 
jmig said:
Frankly, I saw nothing wrong with the approach and landing. The second video shows the pilot was well above the trees. The small tree just split down the middle. He or the person who set up the display had no way of knowing the tree would split, like it did.

I doubt that every time an Osprey lands it knocks down trees.

To me it was more about bad luck than negligence. Of course, the lawyers will have a different opinion.
Click to expand...

Oh it was destined from the start, I'm afraid! You have to appreciate the massively greater force of downwash from the rotors of the Osprey than for other helicopters. It is amazingly more powerful.

Remember, it was so strong that new ropes had to be custom designed just so the Special Forces could fast rope off the AFSOC CV-22. These special ropes have very heavy weights attached at the bottom to keep the rope from flaying around. The ropes are then too heavy to bring back in so the Engineer simply cuts the rope and lets it fall to the ground!

The rotorwash also required the total abandonment of the rope ladder tactic.

So, I compare the offset distance to what I know is required for the MH-47, MH-60, or MH-53 -- all of them I have personal experience being around when they landed, hovered, and took off. Trust me, the Osprey would knock you on your arse when these other three would simply whip your pants hard!

In those other three helicopters, after the SF troop would reach the ground on the fast rope, they would run to their assigned positions. With the Osprey the SF troops lay on the ground immediately on the rope and wait until it is cut away and the Osprey flies away! That's an insight into the difference. And these guys are equipped with safety goggles and helmets!

Ken
 
Presumably, Osprey pilots are up to speed on making approach's to LZ's out in the rough, and the effect the Osprey has on the environement as they make the approach. The wild card here is the weak tree and the close in spectators....oops.
 
Bone said:
Presumably, Osprey pilots are up to speed on making approach's to LZ's out in the rough, and the effect the Osprey has on the environement as they make the approach. The wild card here is the weak tree and the close in spectators....oops.
Click to expand...

The close-in spectators, yes.

The trees, weak or strong, at a training LZ, the crew doesn't care -- tear 'em apart at the seams!

Give me a set of safety goggles, ballistic head protection, and I'll stand where the spectators stood. But, that's because I know what it's going to be like. They didn't. That's why they got scared, and without any of that protective wear, the risk of injury was signficant. Then again, for a young child (as were in the audience) that was absolutely terrifying.

Kind of like a power circular saw. Carpenters -- just another day at work. A three year old child -- absolutely wants to run away in terror!

Ken
 
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