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  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

    Post 17 Warning

OT: A-10C

A-10's and F-18's have not been overdone in my opinion.

An aircraft is not overdone until it has been made to the calibre that DCS has shown.

People can try and make poor renditions of the A-10 (ARMA), but overdone? It's not even out yet lol

Diego
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People demand perfection, be it in their real lives or their virtual: Perfection does not exist.

With such things a line needs to be drawn in the sand by the likes of such powerful developers such as DCS, where for entertainment purposes I am not talkign about their "contracts", they must say: "thats it folks, on to pastures new". Otherwise A-10 (for arguments sakes) will replace another rendition of an A-10, then another, then another.... Nothing new will be forth comming, it gets stale, gets boring. Create the sim as hifi as it can be made at the time. Release it, then move on to a new aircraft subject. In however many years time the technology is there to update the original release then by all means... Of course a simple fix to this, something that LOMAC etc has never done, release an SDK where people can add in aircraft, systems, scenery etc and in doing guaranteeing the survival and longevity of your product much like Microsoft has. Forgive me for scoffing whilst I typed that as I know it will never happen.

The US and Russia are the major market for such sims, that is well known and as such devs need to target their wares at that market so it is not surprising we see repeated simulations of US and Russian aircraft. Ever since the heady days of Microprose and Digital intergration et al we have seen this marketing strategy. A case note would be DI's EXCELLENT Panavia Tornado GR1 simulation of the early 90's. Superb sim. The systems modelled etc, for the day... Fantastic.
You will not find a more satisfying aircraft anywhere in the world to simulate systems than the Tonka. A marriage of steam and digital linked to just about any mission profile imaginable, much like the F-14 but much more advanced.

I am all for the A-10, love it, I grew up with these monsters lazily motoring over my head at tree top height as a kid during the 80's and then the Super Jolly Greens out of RAF Woodbridge so as such I admit that I am excited over this pending release but I would like to see something a little different on the horizon, a Harrier GR7 / 9, perhaps an F-14 (lots of room for mission profiles) or Tornado GR / IDS / ECR and if not then at least an F-15E sim. But alas I fear we will have a long wait.

Three cheers for DCS and the A-10C sim!

P.S. Apologies for the long post.
​
 
CheckSix said:


People demand perfection, be it in their real lives or their virtual: Perfection does not exist.

With such things a line needs to be drawn in the sand by the likes of such powerful developers such as DCS, where for entertainment purposes I am not talkign about their "contracts", they must say: "thats it folks, on to pastures new". Otherwise A-10 (for arguments sakes) will replace another rendition of an A-10, then another, then another.... Nothing new will be forth comming, it gets stale, gets boring. Create the sim as hifi as it can be made at the time. Release it, then move on to a new aircraft subject. In however many years time the technology is there to update the original release then by all means... Of course a simple fix to this, something that LOMAC etc has never done, release an SDK where people can add in aircraft, systems, scenery etc and in doing guaranteeing the survival and longevity of your product much like Microsoft has. Forgive me for scoffing whilst I typed that as I know it will never happen.

The US and Russia are the major market for such sims, that is well known and as such devs need to target their wares at that market so it is not surprising we see repeated simulations of US and Russian aircraft. Ever since the heady days of Microprose and Digital intergration et al we have seen this marketing strategy. A case note would be DI's EXCELLENT Panavia Tornado GR1 simulation of the early 90's. Superb sim. The systems modelled etc, for the day... Fantastic.
You will not find a more satisfying aircraft anywhere in the world to simulate systems than the Tonka. A marriage of steam and digital linked to just about any mission profile imaginable, much like the F-14 but much more advanced.

I am all for the A-10, love it, I grew up with these monsters lazily motoring over my head at tree top height as a kid during the 80's and then the Super Jolly Greens out of RAF Woodbridge so as such I admit that I am excited over this pending release but I would like to see something a little different on the horizon, a Harrier GR7 / 9, perhaps an F-14 (lots of room for mission profiles) or Tornado GR / IDS / ECR and if not then at least an F-15E sim. But alas I fear we will have a long wait.

Three cheers for DCS and the A-10C sim!

P.S. Apologies for the long post.
​
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Without being too harsh to your post, you kinda pointed out exactly what DCS is doing, they have done flankers, f-15's etc, Lomac, flaming cliffs for Russian Iron, Black Shark study sim the first true DCS sim and have now moved to the A10 study sim before the already announced Apache study sim.

There is no real repeats here, its all new its all different.

The Tornado is also included in sims such as Lomac and with mod is flyable.
 
In hindsight I shouldn't have written that post as I thought it might be warped out of all reason.

Simple fact is: US aircraft and Russian aircraft have seen many, many incarnations down the long road of various sims leading to LOMAC at the expense of others. This is due to marketing following the market. Accepted.

AI aircraft made flyable thanks to MODs do not cut the mustard in terms of system modelling, flight dynamics and external visuals by a long chalk, that is a very weak argument. We are talking aircraft and systems simulation as the center piece here, not the inclusion of some AI objects.

DCS have done a fine job, I am not knocking them at all. The fact remains we are not seeing much in the way of choice. It's the same aircraft over and over when there are other aircraft and a lot of aircraft that have been simulated in older incarnations that are waiting to be simulated / reincarnated that would appeal to the masses.

Please remember my posts are only personal opinions NOT attacks.
 
kilo delta said:
Wha???...Cyrillic tooltips too????...you're a sadist! :) :d
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wahn.gif




CheckSix said:
In however many years time the technology is there to update the original release then by all means... Of course a simple fix to this, something that LOMAC etc has never done, release an SDK where people can add in aircraft, systems, scenery etc and in doing guaranteeing the survival and longevity of your product much like Microsoft has. Forgive me for scoffing whilst I typed that as I know it will never happen.​
Click to expand...


Or just throw the source code out.
Someone will pick it up and do stuff to it eventually.

See EECH, IL-2, Freespace 2, Falcon 4...all are old, but still being worked on by those who know best what's needed and what's not - the fans.
​
 
Source code is nice to have, updates to EECH and Falcon 4 too. But I don't think it's the best way to develop a simulator. FreeFalcon is not stable enough to play. Most stable version is the one that was made as commercial game - Falcon 4: AF. EECH is working nice, but engine is still Dx7 and noone seems to know how to rewrite it. FlightGears source is open from the beginning, and it still lacks many features from FS and XPlane.

LockOn/DCS engine is regularly updated, now with new lighting and Dx9, normalmaps, HDR, etc. New flyables are being added. I can't understand why you guys are complaining at these games.

ED said few times they'd like to open their engines architecture, it will take time, but I believe they still want to do it. Open architecture like CFS/FS/XPlane/etc? I'd love to. Open source? Nice to have, but I don't think it's more useful than full time employees.
 
No one is complaining at the games per se... I don't see that here at all. Rather mentioning the lack of variety of aircraft simulated. Regards to the flyables; What? Where? AI aircraft made flyable? Eh? Confused sorry and all... o_O
 
What we really need is a Jane's ATF or Jne's USAF completely rebuilt from ground up

:)

Anyone else remember the days of Jane's combat sims? :wiggle:
 
CheckSix said:
No one is complaining at the games per se... I don't see that here at all. Rather mentioning the lack of variety of aircraft simulated. Regards to the flyables; What? Where? AI aircraft made flyable? Eh? Confused sorry and all... o_O
Click to expand...

I was saying about aircrafts ED is making. A-10C is made flyable, and next are planned.
 
Didn't mean to start this off - yeah I'm glad they making an A-10 in high detail, I'm not complaining about the detail, I'm just airing my opinion over the choice of subject matter. I've been simming since the C64, and over the years I've seen Gunship with the Apache, I've seen A-10 Attack for the Macintosh, I've seen the A-10 with Janes, the A-10 with Lomac and now A-10C with DCS (Lomac). Just bored of the constant theme of using a simulator proven to be popular aircraft type.

As far as F-15s go, yeah an F-15C but we need a Strike Eagle, or at least a high speed bomber of that type - I'd even settle for an A-7 or Jaguar, anything that breaks the mould and is detailed.

Again not knocking DCS, I'd just love to see someone produce something that isn't a historically popular choice.

A wish you might call it.
 
Lewis-A2A said:
The Tornado is also included in sims such as Lomac and with mod is flyable.
Click to expand...

But then it flies like an overpowered Su-27. Most of the flyable mods in Lock On are useless, as the flight dynamics can't be edited.

DCS should branch out into aircraft that weren't covered in Lock On, if you ask me. The Black Shark was obviously a decent choice, as there were no flyable helicopters before. The Apache is a natural progression from that, being the American equivalent. As has been said, I'd much rather see something that hasn't done before, or at least, not recently. The Harrier would be a very good choice. Appeals to European and American markets (UK, Italy, Spain, USA), and I'm sure being able to hover would be a novelty for even the most casual simmer (of which there is a lot in LOMAC/DCS, I might add).

I don't have a burning desire to learn how to start the engines of an A-10, so I doubt I'll get the DCS version, unless there's some huge engine improvements or something. Would rather have a choice of six, still fairly highly detailed aircraft in one sim, and a slightly dumbed down A-10. Though there's still a shedload of things to learn about, even in Lock On.
 
I have learned to accept whatever flight sims are released have to offer, when they are released and what if any support they have. Cannot really be choosy. Looking back all the way to Lomac its been a painfully slow evolution. Its been,what 9 years or so and a most of that I have heard of rumors of the A-10 version so I cannot say I jump with excitement. I will buy it as I have all of their products to show my support and I will also expect to curse out loud and get my blood pressure worked up when I spend 99% of my time setting of the controls and 2 hours figuring out how to take the parking brakes off. As always I tell myself to wait a month or so until the initial bugs get worked out before buying but I waited for 6 months before buying Blackshark. That plan did not work so well either. Maybe a decade to work out a game engine's issues is being to optimistic?
 
I was saying about aircrafts ED is making. A-10C is made flyable, and next are planned.
Click to expand...

I think we all got the idea that the A-10C is flyable ;) What aircraft is ED making? What are planned, please excuse my ignorance. If There are other aircraft to follow the A-10C such as a Harrier, Jaguar, Tornado, F117, F-15E, F-14, A-7, any of the Mirage, perhaps a Typhoon (oooooh)... Dare I go back further and mention F-4, F-105, H.S. Buccaneer, A-6 Intruder, Avro Vulcan et al? Well reading from the online press's Q&A session it didnt look too promising that we would be getting much of a choice and certainly none of the older aircraft. So forgive me as coming across a little argumentative but there are a LOT of simmers that have a valid opinion and are getting bored with the same old, same old. It's wonderful to have such high realism, it truly is and even better to have it in an A-10, yes we all love the A-10 but it is due time for a change.

Centuryseries, dont forget Sierra's A-10 Silent Thunder & Silent Thunder II, A-10 Cuba by Activision. ;)
 
Guys just remember that the A10 is only the second in the series, a bit early to be moaning about which aircraft are featured in the next studysim.

Also worth noting that the DCS thing like the ARMA/OPFOR engine is now used in a military copacity so I can almost guarentee that what they model for the military will no doubt have higher priority than what they would like to model for th eentertainment market.

Also the Strike fighters series of sims is always worth a look as although its a relaxed simulation (though still on par with default FSX aircraft,fm's,systems) it a whole bunch of fun, and there are hundreds of new aircraft for that. I remeber it being the first sim in which I flew some of the post war RN jets n a combat environment. Great fun.
 
I just installed Lomac for the first time and last night and I'm very impressed, I love the cockpits, one problem I'm having is I can't seem to use my mouse to click the cockpit switches, everytme I try to use it it acts as my head and just slew s round the cockpit! Any ideas from fellow LOMAC users?
 
Checksix

You are missing the main point dude....DCS was contracted by the USAF, ANG, and AFR to make the A-10C simulation....after getting permission to make a slimmed down version (taking out all the classified stuff) this is what we got.

They didn't just decide, "Hey, let's make an A-10C for the fun of it. Screw F-15E's, F-4's? Pfft! An Avro? Yea right!" They had the framework done, that is why they chose the A-10C.

You also need to understand the business side of things. How many people do you think would really buy an Avro Vulcan sim? I know I would, and many others, but the demographic for DCS isn't just us dedicated flight simmers who don't mind 6 hour missions, 97% spent en-route and rtb. Now how many people would buy the A-10C sim.....how about anyone and everyone.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see an A-7 sim, or an F-15E sim. I would LOVE that! But the fact remains that they had the groundwork already done, and the demographic to pour it out to.

Diego
 
MenendezDiego said:
You are missing the main point dude....DCS was contracted by the USAF, ANG, and AFR to make the A-10C simulation....after getting permission to make a slimmed down version (taking out all the classified stuff) this is what we got.

They didn't just decide, "Hey, let's make an A-10C for the fun of it. Screw F-15E's, F-4's? Pfft! An Avro? Yea right!" They had the framework done, that is why they chose the A-10C.

You also need to understand the business side of things. How many people do you think would really buy an Avro Vulcan sim? I know I would, and many others, but the demographic for DCS isn't just us dedicated flight simmers who don't mind 6 hour missions, 97% spent en-route and rtb. Now how many people would buy the A-10C sim.....how about anyone and everyone.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see an A-7 sim, or an F-15E sim. I would LOVE that! But the fact remains that they had the groundwork already done, and the demographic to pour it out to.

Diego
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Figure also that people generally like to 'shoot' things and there isnt any better platform to do just that :), the A-10 is everyones fantasy in shoot them up games LOL, better than an Apache or Black shark (too slow and hard to fly), there are few other fixed wing aircraft that suit that genere.
 
I am not missing the point; I got that (DCS, Contracts, USAF, existing sim base etc) right from the off as it was described quite plainly in the article and I also mentioned previously the marketing issues. So no points missed at all.

To repeat myself: My posts are not a knock against DCS, as once again I mentioend previously! They are merely a voice to say "Hey, can't we have something else as a subject matter", not as a direct DCS put down, not to dampen on what already is and what will be an excellent sim without doubt but a mere shout out to the industry as a whole (inc DCS) to say... Guys, we would like to be given a little choice, show us what it would be like to fly an F-4 simulated to the hilt. I mean Strike Fighters got soooo close but only so far.

No where has any one said to DCS or such like "Thou shalt do... Thou shalt not!" Rather folk are expressing a request of preference for alternative models for the future, asking, not demanding.

As I have NO idea of what aircraft are to be modelled in the future I am far from critizing, but I am putting a couple of suggestions that I would hope may get even passing consideration. Is that allowed or no, am I being waaaay out of line?

Please do not think that I am raining on DCS - If you honestly feel that I am then I would beg you to reread my posts, slowly.

It appears I have hijacked the thread some what and taken it away from its true path so I will desist and leave it at this, many thanks for the debate Gents - Great to see the different opinions & personalities coming out.

P.S. I wouldn't immediately buy an Avro Vulcan sim, aircraft is not my bag :)

P.P.S. Michael, that is an accurate statement and I couldn't agree more. :applause:
 
MenendezDiego said:
Cockpits are not clickable :(
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Ahh thats a shame but its too much fun for that to be a problem, I only installed it last night and I'm slowly going through the training modes to try and learna all the new key combo's for weapons and radar settings. One question though can anyone point me to the upgrades for Lomac, I read somewhere you can get free patches that corrects some minor issues. I would also like to say that if anyone is reading this and doesn't have any of the Lomac series DCS or whatever then honestly please do, you will not regret it!
 
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