OT: My Hair-raising WWII Ghost Story from Normandy.

Hi, OvS
I'd like to offer a less "hair-raising", but nevertheless "more than meets the eye" explanation.
I think it's proofed, that our energy goes out further than the body's limits; and people sometimes caught up "mental waves" from a person, they are closely related to.
So: perhaps you were thinking of these soldiers and imagening their weapons and uniforms very strongly down there; and in the isolation of the bunker, she caught them up like pictures? The "antennas" of children are set much more to "receive" than to "send".
Olham

Funny you see it that way, I often wonder if that was the case. It's like Cappy said about being too precise in description. It was just too exact, like it was real to her. My daughter and I are very much on the same wave-length, and often I hear her saying things that I am thinking. Not so much as a test, but like an instant thought, as if I have thought to myself aloud.

Maybe you're right. I'm just glad you guys can identify with this. It was very bizarre, and although a year later, still rings in her memory. Thankfully, she does not have nightmares, it wasn't like that at all. It wasn't something that scared her in that way. But she has made reference to it a few times since last year, so I thought I'd get it out on the table and see what she was talking about.

Man was I amazed.

OvS
 
cool story

never heard such a descriptive narrative come from my daughter, but I have to agree that those times when kids seem to have eye contact with thin air, and say Hi or reach out as if to get something; that alone is enough to make the hairs on your arm stand up.
 
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Hamlet Act1 Scene5
 
Well, seems everyone is happy to accept that children can pick up mental waves from the past, or are tuned into things that adults aren't, and that scientists say it could be so.

Well, sorry, no disrespect to OVS or the rest of you but someone's got to stand up for science here.

Of course, not having first hand experience of the event, I can't really criticize it too much but a few points do occur.


Q: What did they look like?
A: They were mad, and wearing either grey or very darkish green... no definately some kind of greyish color, the helmets were even darker.

Why "mad?" Scared, focused, confused maybe, but mad. Anger isn't the look I'd expect to see on a general basis on German soldiers faces at Normandy. Some of em maybe, but all of em?

Q: Were there a lot of them?
A: Yes, hiding behind trees, and in the bunkers, in all the little corners or behind the walls. Crouched down, or kinda kneeling.

Well let's be fair here. You say you daughter had no knowledge of Germans in WW2, but you'd just taken here all through a battlefield AND she didn't tell you these thing s at the time.

It's no great wonder that if she was imagining that battle ground filled with troops, she'd imaging them crouching behind the obstacles.

Q: Did they have nice uniforms, or were they loose?
A: The uniforms were nice, with lot's of buttons in the front and things on the shoulders.

You led the answer. Your question implies that the opposite of “nice” is “loose”, for starters, thus priming her to mentally think of a more dressy uniform than “loose” by which you were I assume fishing for a description of a GI’s uniform.

You say your daughter is not allowed to watch you play WW2 games and that you have no pictures of German soldiers in the house. Can you guarantee that? What about the box art for those PC games you play? Has you daughter seen splash screens for the games before you’ve told here she can’t watch?

Do you have any WW2 movies on DVD? More box art.

Can you really guarantee that she’s never seen at least a few shots, either game/movie or real of a German soldier, including outside your house. At school?

Q: OK, how about any medals? Anything on the head, or chest?
A: Yes, something like a circle with a star in it. On the chest.

Ditto for above. You gave her two choices, the head and chest. She chose one.

Q: Were you scared?
A: Yes, but I knew they weren't trying to hurt me. So I didn't think anything of it, but there were a lot of them. Everywhere I looked. They were moving around, like army men do. Kind of crawling, but bent over. When we would walk out of a bunker, I would see one in the grass, or behind a tree. Then when I was in the car, I could see them looking at me from behind a fence in a field. Sometimes a lot of them, sometimes only one or two.


“Yes, but I knew they weren't trying to hurt me. So I didn't think anything of it”
This just doesn’t make sense if what she is describing really happened to her (and with your description of her personality at the end of the original post). She’s scared, but doesn’t think anything of it?

“They were moving around, like army men do”

So she knows how “army men” move. So she’s seen some type of soldiers, either current or historical, in movie or stills perhaps.

Q: Why didn't you say something to me?
A: I couldn't, I didn't know what they were. I knew they weren't real, so you wouldn't believe me anyway.

A child is seeing ghostly soldiers all around her for what seems like an extended time, and you did not pick up a hint of discomfort from her at the time?

At the time she made no mention of it, yet did she seem at all disturbed, or just interested?

Q: Were there different types?
A: Yes, some had different colors. Like a Dark color and and a greenish color.

We’ve established she knows what soldiers look like, so saying they wore “dark” and greenish” is not exactly startling.

I asked her to draw some stuff and try to see what she saw in her head. What she drew scared the hell out of me.

I asked about the gun the soldier was carrying... She proceeded to draw what resembled the MP40. She then tried to draw the helmet but she couldn't get it right. I then drew the front view of a standard German helmet.
You drew a helmet. So you led her response again at that point.
She said that was it. "it was pointy on the sides when you looked straight at it". I asked her about boots, she said she thought so, but could not tell as they were never standing up... which is true, most German combat poses are crouched down, and running.

Sorry, but that’s really a stretch. Because she can’t describe the boots, you decide it’s because German tactical doctrine is to be crouched down? To me this really seems like you’ve bought into her imaginings so much you are now constructing explanations around them.

Next was the camoflage... which was insane. I asked her first to draw what she thought the soldier was wearing. She drew a German Tunic. She said it was tight, and looked very nice. Not sagging, and had buttons. She drew the 'medal' right where is should be, on the right breast. Next she bagan to describe the colors and shapes of the Camoflage.
Again, your previous prodding above could be seen as implying there are loose uniforms (not nice) and not loose uniforms (nice). So she mentions this isn’t “sagging”.

"He looked different than the others". He was in the bushes, and had a very dark helmet, a really big gun, bigger than the others, and his clothes were funny colors. Like something green and a dark color, with different shapes. I don't know, I can't describe it."

After this, we left. I kept the paper, and we went to the library. I found a WWII book with a lot of pictures in it. I showed her pictures of British, American and German soldiers. She pointed out the German soldiers right away... 'that's the helmet, that's the jacket... and that's the gun!' I showed her a color drawing of the MP40, amoungst a bunch of other WWII weapons on the same page, she immediately picked it out of the page. Now it gets better
You showed her the pics. Given her description, which you could be seen as having led with the whole “loose not loose” thing, she was bound to pick the German soldiers out.
And that without examining the whole point of whether you can actually guarantee that she has NEVER seen them before.

And if you ask her up front, she’s going to say no she hasn’t because by this stage she’s definitely alert to the fact that Daddy is awed and pleased by what she is saying and will respond accordingly. She’s an 8-year old after all.

The same argument goes for you points that follow on from this about the Fallschirmjager, and the medals. You believe she has never seen any of this so it is miraculous. But again, you took her to Normandy and showed her a battleground, you must have told her what it is she was seeing there. And yet you can guarantee tat she has never seen the imagery that would go with this? After the fact as well, since she mentioned nothing at the time?

Again, my daughter has never seen pictures of WWII soldiers, other than her Great Uncle's 82nd Airborne Mess uniform. She has no idea what these men look like, nor do I watch anything related to war on the TV when she is home.
Again, how can you guarantee this?

She is a fun-loving, goofy, energetic kid that always has a smile on her face, and is very happy to simply be alive. Even when we talked about this, she was happy to tell me, and gave as much detail as possible. She was not afraid, and never once thought twice about describing what she saw.

And finally, this seems to me like a child explaining her imaginings and aware that she is pleasing her father in the process.

At 8 years old she’s old enough to know that seeing soldiers all around her when no one else can is not usual, and yet she treats it as something that doesn’t frighten her?

Again, no disrespect to anyone who wants this to be a supernatural experience, but isn’t there far more human and likely explanations than that?
 
Some very well reasoned points DMW_NZ. I was waiting for someone to offer another perspective.

We do tend to see evidence in thew world around us for what we believe - and want to believe - materialists often no less. That is not to say I personally firmly believe one thing or another in the case of OVS daughter. From a psychological perspective I am most curious about what it meant to her, not whether it was 'real' or not. Trying to define 'reality', when you get down to it, is incredibly difficult. I am much more interested in the relationships between people and things.
 
DMW_NZ,

Great points, but you failed on all of them.

I can tell the difference when my daughter is lying... and when she's telling the truth.

You've never met her... and never will... end of story.

Most of what you said is borderline insulting... if not worse.

THanks,

OvS
 
I meant no disrespect, and am sorry if you took offense. I was not implying a lie, merely that she is an imaginative child.
 
I meant no disrespect, and am sorry if you took offense. I was not implying a lie, merely that she is an imaginative child.

I wish that were the case... she's not even that creative.... more of an athlete than anything else... very happy and independent, and laughs at kids that make fun of her, rather than get upset.

So I don't know... I have no idea what any of it means, other than it happened.
 
Stachel,
I have sensed their presence in quiet places on the Western Front. But it sounds like your daughter has a gift, what my tribe calls 'the Sight'. That is very special.
All the best,
shredward
 
OVS- As I posted above, I have an 8 year old daughter as well. What I find most interesting about your story is that she was describing many men/soldiers, in different spots, different stances. lots of more or less accurate detail. The "battlefield" as opposed to one or two "soldiers"; which would have been more likely if she was making something up or wanted to be get your attention.

As you probably know, when kids do make things up or fantasize a story, it is usually kept to one or two "people" or things; and typically with some relation to them and their world. This doesn't seem to be the case here.
Interesting incident, in any event.

Royce
 
Kids have big differences in the way they think than older men. They understand their surroundings in a completely different way than grown-ups do. For instance, psychologists say that children can really understand if a person loves them or not. Also, children have amazing memory. If they see or hear something, they can reproduce it very easily. Thats why they learn to speak and walk. If OvS's daughter has seen only ONE picture of a German trooper by accident and only for a few seconds, it is possible that she will remember every piece of detail. BUT it is rather strange for her to know how the soldiers walked and crouched and what expressions they had on their faces. It is a rather interesting and hair-raising story indeed. Maybe she saw something that day in the Normandy bunkers..
 
Kids have big differences in the way they think than older men. They understand their surroundings in a completely different way than grown-ups do. For instance, psychologists say that children can really understand if a person loves them or not. Also, children have amazing memory. If they see or hear something, they can reproduce it very easily. Thats why they learn to speak and walk. If OvS's daughter has seen only ONE picture of a German trooper by accident and only for a few seconds, it is possible that she will remember every piece of detail. BUT it is rather strange for her to know how the soldiers walked and crouched and what expressions they had on their faces. It is a rather interesting and hair-raising story indeed. Maybe she saw something that day in the Normandy bunkers..

I'll toss this in there as well... she LOVED being in the bunkers. She still asks to go back, and everywhere else we went, she kept asking... are there more bunkers. Like I said, scared, but very inquisitive.

I was more amazed at how she nearly completely described the Fallschirmager, or what I believe to be by her description. They are rare by all means to see in photos, in color and in general. But she nailed the description close enough that when I found an image of one, she said, 'that was him'.

I find this stuff hard to believe myself, trust me I do. But sometimes you have to toss logic and science aside and simply go with it. She saw something, what it was, only her mind knows for sure. But she definately saw something while we were in the area.

I found the paper she drew the stuff on. Again, it was a conversation, so it's really a doodle page, more than accurate drawings. But the one that creeps me out is the one of the bunker she just took the paper from me, and drew. It was of a round building, which we were in, and a stairway, which we saw, then half a man's body and head, as if he was sitting in the doorway, looking out at her. She drew him with a frown, and said he was upset, not happy, or mad.

I have it on my desk, I'll scan it in tonight, or tomorrow. It's somewhat laughable, but from a child's point of view, it kinda gave me the chills to think that's what she saw looking back at her.

OvS
 
I do not know what happened or how to explain it ....

..... Friday in work my phone rang, I picked it up and said hello. The voice on the other end said, " Hey!", it was my brother Roger calling me from South Carolina. Pretty normal, right?

But this is want happened next. In an instant everything went completely black, I did not see anything nor hear anything. My brother said, " Hello", again like he did not think I was there. I could only hear his voice no other sounds, but his voice was in very slow motion. In this complete blackness, floating in this void, a very vivid picture of just my brothers face appeared. Its appearance was, a light gray color, his eyes were closed, his mouth was open, and he was dead still and all was dead silent, this was all I saw or heard. Not one sound from the office in which I work nor the bright lights that illuminates them.

Then as instantly as it happened, it was gone and I sat there and said ....

Me, "Roger is that you?

Roger, "Ya, what’s going on?

Me, "Nothing much just working."

Roger, "Hey I need to talk to you, but a customer just came in so I have to go. I will call you Saturday at home."

Me, "Okay, talk to you then, take care, love you."

I hung-up the phone still dazed by what had happened to me with this uneasy feeling that my brother need me in some way, that I needed to help him, that he needed my help or comfort.

Well the rest of the day went as normal but this feeling would not leave me.

Late Saturday evening at home the phone rang.

Me, "Hello, O, Hi Joy, how are you doing?" ( Joy is my brothers wife) I thougth this was Roger calling me back."

Joy, "Keri-Ann are you sitting down?"

Me, "Why?"

Joy," Roger had a heart attack on the way back from his rodeo meet."

Me, "O-my God!, No!, Is his okay?"

Joy, "No, ...... he did not make it".

To this day I cannot explain what happened, but I will tell you it was as real to me, as reading this right now is to you.

I do need to add this. A few days after the funeral, Roger's wife Joy and I were talking. Joy said that they let her see Roger in the hospital. Joy said, he was laying there on this metal table with a white sheet covering him from his toes to his neck.

His face looked all blueish gray, his eyes closed shut, she said his mouth was open, she said, " I tried to close it for him, but it keep opening. .........."

My brother Roger was 46 years old. I love him very much.

[FONT=&quot]WF2[/FONT]
 
There is a lot more going on in our brains than we will ever know. I do believe that our ancestors accessed these abilities that we have lost touch with over time. There is a large part of our brain that we don't even know much about, what it is capable of doing and sometimes we get a sneak peak of it. Some folks turn to science to explain what they don't understand or refuse to believe, and that's fine, but they should not try to close the minds of the ones who have theirs open.

Chris
 
There is a lot more going on in our brains than we will ever know. I do believe that our ancestors accessed these abilities that we have lost touch with over time. There is a large part of our brain that we don't even know much about, what it is capable of doing and sometimes we get a sneak peak of it. Some folks turn to science to explain what they don't understand or refuse to believe, and that's fine, but they should not try to close the minds of the ones who have theirs open.

Chris

10%, that's it... that's all we use. What the other 90% does... God only knows.

OvS
 
10%, that's it... that's all we use. What the other 90% does... God only knows.

OvS

That statistic is a little misleading. It's 10% (or whatever percentage according to the scientific expert of the month) at any one time.

The entire brain is used, just not all of it at the same time.
 
A little off topic, but I remember in one of my college Biology classes an account of a railroad worker back in the late 1800's who was tamping powder with two buddies for a blasting charge, the tamper he used was a pointed iron bar and it sparked, igniting the charge, killing his two associates, and driving the bar up through his chin, into his brain (the grey matter part, not so much the frontal lobe) and out the top of his head at an angle. The miracle was he survived!! No kidding, and doctors from all around came by to marvel and also help remove the rod and patch over the holes. They said he lived to a fairly old age as well, but the incident changed his personality somewhat. I'd say that after that kind of accident, your personality would likely be considerably changed, brain damage or no!! Anyway...if you saw the horrific nature of the event, you'd not think it possible for a human to continue functioning afterwards. It was truly incredible. The brain is pretty amazing.

ZZ.
 
Interesting post, I honestly believe there is much more going on then the scientific community knows (at this time). Just like anything scientist have to be skeptical until the data can be proven and repeatable. Does not mean that "spirits" are not real, just means there is no hard evidence to support it...yet. But as anyone who follows anything in science, nothing is written in stone forever as new technogies develope and what was once considered fantasy becomes reality, keeping an open mind is the safe bet.
Heres something that happened to me that made me open a once closed mind to this. My wife has always seemed sensative to other things then the physical world we live in. I never really payed much mind to it till an uncle of mine passed away from an heart attack back in 1990. After I recieved the phone call from my mom, I told my wife when she got home from work (we had been married for 6 months). When I told her she said she already knew. I asked her if someone had told her and she said no, that she had seen him in a dream the night he passed away. She said he was sitting on a chair in front of his dresser which had a mirror. She said he was in allot of pain and was clutching his chest, and then he passed. The next day I talked with my grandmother and asked where they found my uncle. I about fell out of my chair when she described exactly what my wife had told me the night before. But there's more.... the day before the funeral my wife told me that my uncle had come to her again in a dream that night and he was very upset. When I asked her what he was upset about she said he didn't want to be buried in a suit. My uncle was always a blue jeans, tee-shirt and flannel kind of guy. Well when we went to the funeral and we walked up to the casket to pay our respects he was dressed in blue jeans, tee-shirt and a flannel. I didn't think much of it until I talked to his son and he told me that they did have my uncle in a suit, but changed it only hours before the viewing. My uncle visited my wife one more time right after the funeral. He wanted to get a message to my mom. My uncle and my mom (brother and sister) were very very close, and she was taking his passing very hard. The message was "Don't worry suzie, I'm okay". I was very hesitant to tell my mom this for obvious reasons, plus I had never heard my uncle or anyone call my mom by suzie (her name is Ann Marie), but my wife was adament that I get this message to my mom. So very hesitantly I waited until what seemed like the right time presented itself about two weeks later. I will never forget that day when I told my mom this message. She started to cry, and I was ready to crawl under a rock. I started apologizing for making her so upset Imagine my surprise when she said she said she was crying because she was very happy. Thats when I found out suzie was my uncles pet name for my mom that only they used when talking to each other alone. I tried to rationlize this for sometime afterward, but honesly there is no way my wife of 6 months could have know this, heck I had known my uncle since I was a toddler and never heard him call my mom suzie. My wife and I have been married for 19 years now and there have been many more of these kinds of incidents.
 
Terribly sorry you lost your brother WF2. Thats an incredible story though. It reminds me of a passage in Eddie Rickenbacker's autobiography where the same exact thing happened, almost word for word compared to yours. He was working and the phone rang, it was his brother, ect.

My mom saw the "ghost" of her grandmother once. She said that she was waving to her. 10 minutes later the phone rang and it was her mother telling her that her grandmother had just passed away.There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that we are, in some unexplained way, connected to the minds or spirits of the ones we love.

-Rooster
 
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