OT: TSA Proposed Legislation concerning Warbirds......

b24_witchcraft

b24_witchcraft

Charter Member
I got this email from the Collings Foundation recently regarding proposed TSA legislation potentially affecting the foundation's (and other groups as well) ability to conduct the Wings of Freedom nationwide tour. I figure it will be of interest to some of my fellow forum members. Here it is....

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]If you cannot view the images here, please see the online version at this link[/FONT]​
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Tuesday November 4th, 2008​
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Critical Information!
TSA Proposed Legislation[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Bottom line: If this TSA Legislation passes, it will be the end of the Wings
of Freedom tour and programs similar.
We need your support. This is time sensitive. Please read below:[/FONT][/FONT]
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TSA Proposed Legislation Represents Potentially Significant Regulation of Private Aircraft Operations​
RE: Docket Number TSA 2008-0021, Large Aircraft Security Program, Other Aircraft Operator Security Program and Airport Operator Security Program
On October 30, 2008, the TSA issued a Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) with only a 60 day comment period (which includes several holidays and a period when, typically, Washington becomes a “Ghost Town”) calling for sweeping new security requirements on the operation of all aircraft exceeding 12,500 pounds. The Collings Foundation’s preliminary assessment of the proposal is that this legislation would be so cumbersome, far reaching, and virtually impossible to comply with, that our flying of historic aircraft would not be possible.
Because of the onerous requirements and encroachment on personal freedoms suggested in the NPRM, three major aircraft associations, AOPA, EAA and NBAA, have called for extending the comment period to120-days, plus public hearings to evaluate the impact and interpretation of the proposed ruling.
Industry estimates are that over 15,000 aircraft, 10,000 operators and 300 airports will be impacted by the 67-page proposal. New concepts of third party auditors, security program training and approval, and third party watch list checking firms with timely approvals-- which would allow the general aviation community to comply with these regulations do not exist, thereby resulting in a real Catch 22.
Furthermore, there seem to be no discussions of the cost vs. benefits of this huge Federal Program, and who would pay for it other than “the General Aviation Community.” As it is proposed, TSA-2008-0021 would have an enormous impact on general aviation, plus violation of Constitutional Rights issues.
As to its effect on the Collings Foundation, our assessment is that, as proposed, it would be fatal to the Wings of Freedom Tour and our ability to take these historic aircraft around the country and share them with millions of Americans annually. Please note that with some concern for political correctness please use “historic aircraft” rather than “bombers” or “warbirds” in your communications and correspondence.
The bottom line is that we need your help both short-term and long-term. Short-term, we need you to support the aviation communities’ request to extend the comment period by a minimum of at least 60 days. The current deadline for comments is December 29, 2008.
Official Response: You may submit comments, identified by the TSA docket number TSA 2008-0021 to the Federal Docket Management System, a government-wide electronic docket management system, using any and/or all of the following methods:

  • By Mail, In Person or Fax to the Docket Management Facility, US Dept. of Transportation, 1200 New Jersey Ave SE, West Building Ground Floor, Room W12-140, Washington DC 20590-0001. Fax 202-493-2251.

  • Electronically through the Federal eRulemaking portal at http://www.regulations.gov. Follow the online instructions for submitting comments.

  • Higher Level Responses. If any of the Aviation Committee members of either the House or Senate, are your representatives, the same appeal for extension could be even more effective. For a list of Transportation/Aviation Committee members in the House of Representatives and Senate, click the appropriate link below:
House of Representatives: click here.
Senate: click here.
D. Contacting your Senator or Representative: You can reach your Senator or Representative by calling 202-224-3121 and asking for your Congressman. Upon being connected to the office, ask for the legislative assistant in charge of transportation issues. You won’t get to speak to your Senator or Representative directly, but their aides for the respective areas are the right channels to get action.
E. Your Comments may also be sent to:
1. The Honorable Edward “Kip” Hawley, Assistant Secretary, Transportation Security Administration, 601 South 12 th Street, Arlington, VA 22202-4220.
2. Branch Chief-Policy, Plans & Stakeholder Affairs, Office of General Aviation, TSNM (TSA-28), Transportation Security Administration, 601 South 12 th Street, Arlington, VA 22202-4220.
Please join in with us now to get this comment period extended. In the longer term, we’ll be updating you further on the interpretation of this proposal, discussions regarding how this might impact us and what we can do about it. Thank you very much for your support.
Please take 5 minutes and contact the above representatives! Your support is what counts!
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http://www.collingsfoundation.org/cf_enewsletter.htm[/FONT]​
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Collings Foundation
PO Box 248
Stow, Massachusetts 01775
978.562.9182 - www.collingsfoundation.org[/FONT]
 
Bump.....

And could this be kept as a stickey for the duration please? This is important to all of us no matter what part of the aviation industry we belong to or watch. It's especially important that these and any other warbirds be kept flying, as they are a very important part of our history and freedom.
 
Thanks for bringing this matter to our attention.. I left a comment at the linked site, and called my Congresswoman's office. It will be a sad day, indeed, if the airshow experience as we know it now were to be canned by the stroke of a pen....:banghead:
 
It's not just airshow operators that are endangered by this fellas. ANY GA airport that has larger aircraft operating out of it will be required by the TSA to implement FULL TSA security procedures by this new regulation. So, say that you keep your cessna 152 at an airport where a Citation or any bizjet operates out of. You, and anyone accompanying you will now have to go through full TSA security procedures just to enter the airport, and fly your plane. Big Brother will be watching you..... can you say bye bye to crop dusting services, aerial photography and survey services, Mom and Pop FBO's, etc, etc, etc....
 
This issue has been going on for awhile now. EAA has been involved from the start. I have faith that they(EAA) and other smarter heads will prevail. I hope. They've been able to put an end to some crazy things like this in the past before. Let's hope and pray they do again.
 
I posted what I think on that site, but I do not see my comment, oh well, next step is congress!:d
 
I got another email from the Collings Foundation today and one of topics mentioned in the email is this proposed TSA legislation (Docket Number TSA 2008-0021). Once again I figure it will be of interest to some of my fellow forum members. Thanks to everyone who has done something to take action....

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Critical information follow up:
TSA 2008-0021, Large Aircraft Security Program, Other, Aircraft Operator Security Program and Airport Operator Security Program [/FONT][/FONT]
We have been receiving comments back from folks who are not exactly clear on what TSA 2008-0021 is, or how they can effectively respond. The legislation document is not the easiest read. To view a copy of this legislation click here for a pdf.(You can also post a comment here) There are many more regulations not mentioned in the description below, but hopefully this will clarify the primary concerns:

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In a nut shell:
[/FONT]Pilots and airport operators would have to follow new concepts of third party auditors, security program training and approval, and intermediary third party watch list checking firms. If TSA 2008-2001 is enacted, any aircraft pilots or operators of aircraft heavier than 12,500 lbs. would be required to submit any passengers through a TSA "no fly" list prior to flying. Airport and aircraft operators would be required to adhere to extensive programs of security changes governed by the TSA, which are not understood or possibly even feasible.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Ramifications:
[/FONT]Private pilots and operators of aircraft with a maximum take off weight of 12,500 lbs. will not be able to take on passengers (even known friends) without going through this process:

1) Operators must have approved personnel, security training and approved programs.
2) Operator must generate a passenger manifest.
3) Manifest must be submitted to a government approved third party service organization.
4) Third party service organization checks your manifest against the confidential "no fly" lists.
5) If you manifest is approved, your flight is authorized with designated passengers.

All of the above will be at the operator's expense.

Airports and F.B.O. roles in enforcing all the security protocols and monitor passenger roster prior to flight are unknown. Additional security programs and actions airports and F.BO. may need to enact are unknown, as are the costs.

As most of you know, this will have a detrimental effect on our ability to offer flight experiences in our historic aircraft.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]What needs to be done to stop and/or alter this legislation:

[/FONT]At least, a 60-day extension of the comment period has to be granted now! Current deadline for comments is December 29,2008. This kind of legislation has the possibility of being rushed to judgment in a lame duck administration during the holidays. This is likely the case why this proposed legislation is proposed within this time frame. An extension with public hearing will allow reasonable time to understand and modify this legislation. If you are contacting your representative or posting a comment please reference: TSA 2008-0021, and request an extension for timely review and public hearing.

Contact representatives on the Subcommittee on Aviation: CLICK HERE.

Contact Aviation Operation, Safety and Security Senate Reps: CLICK HERE

Post your comments of the Federal eRulemaking portal: CLICK HERE ​
 
Thanks for the heads up, I've posted my comments and request for additional review time. I've had the opportunity to fly on a B-17 and a B-25, I would hate to see this opportunity denied to those who have not had the experience of flying on restored aircraft.
 
Something tells me this won't pass too easily. The MTow of the Lear 40 is 21,000#. How many corporate aviation programs would be crippled by this? You can't tell me that the corporate zillionaires out there will let this pass without a fight. Instead of complaining to the sometimes deaf ears of politicians, spread the word to all the corporate pilots you know and let them go to their bosses.
 
Maybe it's a plot by the bankrupted major airlines to make all the corporate execs return to flying first class on their airlines. My tinfoil hat is on a bit too tight today, isn't it? :costumes:
 
One way to get things going is to contact your State's Senators and Congressmen. 1 thru 5 in the Ramifications list is the death blow for Collings, MAAM, Yankee Air Museum, and any other group with the old warbirds that give rides. What's next... buses, trains, anu other public transport, and your own personal vehicles?

Anyone know the email address for our new soon to be President, so we can let him how we feel? After all, doesn't he work for us?
 
The email for the VP is vice_president (at) whitehouse.gov, so why not try dropping the "vice_" part? According to this page, you should send only text - no formatting or attachments.
 
Tom - This is the first time I have received an email urging action on public policy like this from the Collings Foundation itself. This type of proposed ruling may have been attempted (and thankfully failed) before but this kind of legislation has the possibility of being implemented in a "lame duck" administration during the holidays. This is likely the case why this proposed legislation is proposed within this time frame once again.

Personally I object to TSA 2008-0021 as a proposed ruling and I hope it will not be implemented as a matter of public policy. Even so at the very least the TSA should extend the comment period on this proposed ruling an additional sixty to 120 days plus conduct public hearings to evaluate the impact and interpretation of the proposed ruling.

A note to those who have posted comments on the regulations.gov website regarding this proposed TSA ruling I've noticed that it takes several days to get your comments regarding this issue posted on the website. Comments made on November 5th are just getting posted now (11/12). Be sure to get the provided tracking number that is given to you after commenting.
 
MudMarine said:
Copy that! It's only just begun! Emailing to stop this insanity.......:isadizzy:
Click to expand...
Just a quick update for everyone interested - I just looked at the regulations.gov website and noticed that the comments section for this proposed regulation (TSA 2008-0021) has more than doubled in a single day! As mentioned earlier it does take a while for submitted comments to be posted on the website for some reason so be patient.
 
Yeah but are the comments for or against this idiot proposal? Though I'm sarcastically curious, will our brillant lawmakers hold themselves and friends to the same regulations governed by this possible new law?

Flyingbullseye
 
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