OT: TSA Proposed Legislation concerning Warbirds......

[skyhawka4m]

This will be one of MANY bills forced down our throats now with this new activist goverment......hold on fella's...this gonna be one hello of a ride for the next 2 years..........so much so.....I went and bought my 2 hands guns for the month. Get'm while you can folks.......legally.

 

[b24_witchcraft]

Yeah but are the comments for or against this idiot proposal?

Flyingbullseye

To answer your first question - I've noticed after reading some of the comments at random most of the people posting are either opposed to this proposed regulation period or people that are requesting an extension of the commenting period as the Collings Foundation's own letter has suggested as a course of action. On the regulations.gov website there's nearly 1,000 comments posted regarding this proposed regulation as of now. As I mentioned earlier this type of proposed regulation has the possibility of being implemented in a "lame duck" administration / transition time during the holidays if people don't act quickly.

Though I'm sarcastically curious, will our brilliant lawmakers hold themselves and friends to the same regulations governed by this possible new law?

Although I'd like to be optimistic here I'm going to say their probably not going to be held to the same regulations for some reason.

This will be one of MANY bills forced down our throats now with this new activist government......hold on fella's...this gonna be one hello of a ride for the next 2 years.

I agree - fasten your seat belts. One of things we can all do is to let our opinions be known regarding the issues that concern us - keep the name / phone numbers of your local politicians and newspapers handy. Thankfully one of our rights we still have is the freedom of speech.

 

[b24_witchcraft]

Sorry about double posting here mods - but here's an update from the Collings Foundation regarding this proposed regulation. I noticed this news item in their newsletter they sent today. One could argue it's good news in a way but the struggle to stop this proposed regulation is not over yet by any means.

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Legislation comment period extended:
TSA 2008-0021, Large Aircraft Security Program, Other, Aircraft Operator Security Program and Airport Operator Security Program
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]The comment period for TSA legislation has been extended to February 27th, 2009. Thank you to all who have submitted their concerns and requests for extension. The Collings Foundation will be working cooperatively with our constituents and interested parties in compiling a more complete analysis of 2008-0021 during the extension. Please stay tuned! By January we will have a better idea on how things are progressing. See our January eNews letter for status.

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]TSA 2008-0021 in a nutshell:
[/FONT]Pilots and airport operators would have to follow new concepts of third party auditors, security program training and approval, and intermediary third party watch list checking firms. If TSA 2008-2001 is enacted, any aircraft pilots or operators of aircraft heavier than 12,500 lbs. would be required to submit any passengers through a TSA "no fly" list prior to flying. Airport and aircraft operators would be required to adhere to extensive programs of security changes governed by the TSA, which are not understood or possibly even feasible.

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Ramifications if 2008-0021 is enacted: The Collings Foundation (and similar organizations) will most likely not be able to operate the Wings of Freedom tour or offer historical aircraft flights in the B-17, B-24 or B-25.
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[GT182]

Sorry about double posting here mods - but here's an update from the Collings Foundation regarding this proposed regulation. I noticed this news item in their newsletter they sent today. One could argue it's good news in a way but the struggle to stop this proposed regulation is not over yet by any means.

Tho not over at least there is an extension to Feb 27th 2009. That is a good start and hopefully they(TSA) will listen to reason.

I sure don't want to see my tour stop disappear because of some idjit(s) in DC.

 

[b24_witchcraft]

Tho not over at least there is an extension to Feb 27th 2009. That is a good start and hopefully they(TSA) will listen to reason.

I sure don't want to see my tour stop disappear because of some idjit(s) in DC.

I totally agree with you Gary, I certainly wouldn't want the Wings of Freedom (or any other similiar tour for that matter) to stop either. Seeing these planes in person makes one appreciate and respect the men that served their country on these aircrafts during wartime even more. Anyways here's some more good news it looks like the word is getting out about this proposed regulation. Check out what Zach (AKA RangerPilot) has posted over at the Project Opensky forums - http://forum.projectopensky.com/index.php?showtopic=35204

PS - The TSA has announced that public hearings will be held during the month of January (dates and times can be found here).
http://www.eaa.org/news/2008/2008-12-18_tsa.asp

 

[b24_witchcraft]

I'm certainly glad to see this thread is getting a bit of attention at the flightsim.com forums. I hope the forums mods here don't mind me bumping this thread up a bit. For those who are interested here's an update. I recently received another email from the Collings Foundation with an update on this topic.


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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The "goings on" over at TSA.. [/FONT][/FONT]
A quick recap: The Transportation Security Administration is trying to enact a piece of legislation that would require all private aircraft operators (that have aircraft 12,500 lbs. and heavier) to adhere to new security protocols. This legislation is called [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]TSA 2008-0021, Large Aircraft Security Program, Other, Aircraft Operator Security Program and Airport Operator Security Program. [/FONT][/FONT]Part of this legislation states that all aircraft operators with aircraft 12,500 lbs. and heavier would have to submit their passenger manifest through the governments "no fly list". This would be detrimental to the Wings of Freedom tour and programs similar. A large portion of the people who take a flight experience on our bombers sign up on the day of the flight. If we had to submit a list before accepting passengers, we would not be able to offer flights at location. A good resource for more information click here.


The TSA has been conducting public response forums at select locations. For a list of locations and times click here. Bob Collings attended the hearing in New York. It was standing room only. All attendees seem to agree that this legislation is not reasonable, enforceable or effective. At this time, it is unknown what impact public comments will have on the government's formulation of this legislation. We still suggest you attend these hearing and voice your concerns. To post your comments regarding this legislation click here.


Regardless of the absurdity and violations of rights, most government heads will let this pass in one form or another since they don't want to give the perception they are weak "fighting national security". Deadline for public comments is February 28th. We will keep you posted as information comes in.

 

[planejunky]

Isn't paranoia a wonderful thing! This isn't just confined to the US, C-47/Dakota's are now banned from flying passengers in the UK because the cockpit doors are not secure enough to meet the new EU security legislation. The cost of upgrading the aircraft is prohibitive, therefore in 2008 it finished

B-17G Sally B was grounded for a year, again because EU regulations placed her in the same insurance category as a 737. Unlike the US most UK warbirds are flown on the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) "Permit to Fly" basis and therefore are not certified to fly paying passengers, Sally B is no different and cannot re-coup some of the money using the very expensive CAA Hire & Reward category.

As for the PC brigade trying to ban the word Warbird, they can go Foxtrot Oscar!!!!

 

[b24_witchcraft]

Isn't paranoia a wonderful thing! This isn't just confined to the US, C-47/Dakota's are now banned from flying passengers in the UK because the cockpit doors are not secure enough to meet the new EU security legislation. The cost of upgrading the aircraft is prohibitive, therefore in 2008 it finished

B-17G Sally B was grounded for a year, again because EU regulations placed her in the same insurance category as a 737. Unlike the US most UK warbirds are flown on the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) "Permit to Fly" basis and therefore are not certified to fly paying passengers, Sally B is no different and cannot re-coup some of the money using the very expensive CAA Hire & Reward category.

As for the PC brigade trying to ban the word Warbird, they can go Foxtrot Oscar!!!!

Sad to hear of people missing out on historic flights due to paranoia and security BS whether it be in the EU / UK or potentially in the US.

Here's another update from the Collings Foundation regarding this proposed BS regulation. I noticed this news item in their newsletter they sent recently.

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]TSA 2008 - 0021
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Large Aircraft Security Program, Other, Aircraft Operator Security Program and Airport Operator Security Program.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]As Americans, it is our duty to question authority. In this case, we have a lot of questions! Time is of the essence - write a letter to contest this legislation - or use ours...
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America's Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is proposing a new set of security regulations for the nation's General Aviation community that is ineffective, porous, a violation of private citizen's rights, cause substantial job losses and endless additional tax payer's expenses. If this passes, the Wings of Freedom tour and programs similar will end -

For a copy of this legislation click here.
Comments can be submitted online to regulations.gov click here.
Download the Collings Foundation's letter click here.
Send a letter to President Obama click here.
Send a letter to your State Senator. Find yours click here.
Send a letter to the House of Representatives. Find yours click here.

Please feel to use our letter as a template or write your own. Most important is that this piece of legislation needs to be defeated. We cannot let the TSA "railroad" this into law under current structure.

Act now or forever hold your peace.

 

[srgalahad]

Maybe it's a plot by the bankrupted major airlines to make all the corporate execs return to flying first class on their airlines. My tinfoil hat is on a bit too tight today, isn't it? :costumes:

That may well be where the impetus came from (got any spare tinfoil?). Corp. travel has been touting the "avoid the security hassles" benefit for some time now to get more customers and the airlines ( see: "bailout, "big business", "friends in high places") aren't happy.

This issue has been going on for awhile now. EAA has been involved from the start. I have faith that they(EAA) and other smarter heads will prevail. I hope. They've been able to put an end to some crazy things like this in the past before. Let's hope and pray they do again.

Dare I say "Meigs Field"?

I doubt it's any one administration (sorry but I hate 'agendas'). The 'crats have to justify huge staffs and do so by looking for loopholes (or creating them first) so they can find ways to "protect the people through paranoia". In most cases it's a make-work project for lawyers -- but still a threat to those same people by impacting jobs and educational organizations like Collings, Air Atlantique, etc.

BTW, a DC-3 is over 12,500. So is a C-46, and an F-27. So much for fostering an interest in aviation. Next will be all those charitable flights for "Make a Wish" etc...

Rob

 

[azflyboy]

This will be one of MANY bills forced down our throats now with this new activist goverment......hold on fella's...this gonna be one hello of a ride for the next 2 years

The new government had nothing to do with this idea.

The original legislation was designed and proposed during the Bush administration, which was also responsible for creating the TSA in the first place.

Hopefully someone will finally realize that the TSA isn't really helping anything and will start making them actually do their jobs, instead of insisting 4 ounces of toothpaste and water bottles will cause another 9/11.

 

[Drake]

The new government had nothing to do with this idea.

The original legislation was designed and proposed during the Bush administration, which was also responsible for creating the TSA in the first place.

Hopefully someone will finally realize that the TSA isn't really helping anything and will start making them actually do their jobs, instead of insisting 4 ounces of toothpaste and water bottles will cause another 9/11.

Or a little old lady with fingernail clippers.

 

[b24_witchcraft]

The Collings Foundation just sent an another email today as a reminder the deadline for commenting on this proposed rule is coming up around the corner. There's nearly 3500 comments regarding this proposed rule as of this posting on the regulations.gov site!!
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[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]TSA 2008-0021 Comment deadline is this Friday! February 27th[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
Submit your comments to TSA before the 2/27 deadline![/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We really need to rally the troops on this one. Don't let the TSA "rail road" this legislation through. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]TSA 2008 - 0021 [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Large Aircraft Security Program, Other, Aircraft Operator Security Program and Airport Operator Security Program.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]