Plane Design Lancaster in FSX

[DickB]

If you guys are interested, I can try and put together some files of the original Lancaster PS textures. I made the original external textures and I can look to see if I have any of the internal masters as Ed did those.

The FDE is only our second FDE and a new version would be much better based on what we learned from Jerry Beckwith's work on our Spitfire.

Also, Ed was working on a new Lanc awhile back, where every system worked as on the actual WW2 version and every position could be manned, including working turrets. But, real life...

Yes please !!!

Agree what you say about Ed's new Lancaster. I did some testing on it, and it was going to be awesome. The nav and bomb aimer positions in particular.

 

[BendyFlyer]

Dick B and Sundog. This sounds very promising, painting is not my skill set but I am reviewing all the technical data of the Lancaster PD to see if that can be improved at all I have not laid my hands on a maintenance manual yet as this is where you get all the key data such as control surface movements, size, angles etc which are all catered for in the aircraft.cfg file. I am also investigating the acceleration issue.

 

[DickB]

Dick B and Sundog. This sounds very promising, painting is not my skill set but I am reviewing all the technical data of the Lancaster PD to see if that can be improved at all I have not laid my hands on a maintenance manual yet as this is where you get all the key data such as control surface movements, size, angles etc which are all catered for in the aircraft.cfg file. I am also investigating the acceleration issue.

I have all that data for the MkI and MKIII. PM me with what you need.

 

[Sundog]

Hi Bendyflyer. The key to getting a good FDE, from my and Ed's experience with what we learned from the Lancs and then applied to the Spit, is getting the propulsion dialed in first; Horsepower/blower/supercharger versus throttle and altitude and proper RPMs for those settings and the thrust from the prop. Once you know you have that set-up accurately, you can adjust the aerodynamics for the proper performance figures. If the propulsion model is off, you will always be way off somewhere in the flight model. Then you end up tweaking something in the propulsion model to fix something in the aero, which then throws everything off in another part of the flight envelope.

I'll get those PS kits put together within a week and upload them here.

 

[BendyFlyer]

Hi Bendyflyer. The key to getting a good FDE, from my and Ed's experience with what we learned from the Lancs and then applied to the Spit, is getting the propulsion dialed in first; Horsepower/blower/supercharger versus throttle and altitude and proper RPMs for those settings and the thrust from the prop. Once you know you have that set-up accurately, you can adjust the aerodynamics for the proper performance figures. If the propulsion model is off, you will always be way off somewhere in the flight model. Then you end up tweaking something in the propulsion model to fix something in the aero, which then throws everything off in another part of the flight envelope.

I'll get those PS kits put together within a week and upload them here.

Sundog, I agree completely. I managed this with Jens Kristensen's Hythe when converting it back to a Sunderland. My experience there validates what you say above. The fascinating thing I discovered doing the Sunderland (yes its nearly ready for release here at SOH) was that all but one of the published data sites or references on the internet re the Aircraft's dimensions etc was incorrect (not much but everywhere from the span to the aileron sizes, elevator angles etc etc) when referenced back to the original UK Air Ministry Maintenance Manual and Data, so I learnt a a valuable lesson, just because it is on the internet does not means its right and the way errors get copied across various websites and so on. I don't know if you can send me a PDF of the Lanc or would you rather I just list the data that needs to be checked? The engines are more of a problem only because various versions of the Merlins were used so I guess it is a question of deciding on a variant and sticking with that. I also discovered on another model the DHC-3 Otter that FSX does not have a reliable algorithim for dealing with propellor angles and in particular a peculiarity long gone from aviaiton of non feathering props that could have the pitch altered between fine and coarse but were not fully adjustable across the range so were not constant speed units once I figured that out a bit of tweaking on the cfg file produced the correct power and rpm outputs.

At the moment I am not doing much having come down with a serious dose of the flu and concentration is not high at the moment or enthusiasm for anything. Cheers.

 

[DickB]

If I've done everything right, there should be a file attached to this post containing the main data for the Lancaster I and III from AP 2062A.

And here is a link to the Flight Engineers Notes:

http://www.lancasterbombers.net/flipbook/Flight_Engineers_Notes/files/book.swf

I have lots more. Just let me know what you need !


DB

 

[Sundog]

Hi Ed (I see you're on here while I am

Ed knows all about the propeller issues you're talking about, as he taught me a thing or two about it. I'll let him answer you in that regard. Ed's waiting for his account to be authorized, then he'll respond.

 

[DickB]

Hi Ed (I see you're on here while I am

Ed knows all about the propeller issues you're talking about, as he taught me a thing or two about it. I'll let him answer you in that regard. Ed's waiting for his account to be authorized, then he'll respond.

That's good news. I was chatting to Ed today and alerted him to this thread. He is keen to join the discussion !

 

[Ed Walters]

Yes - thanks for letting me know about the thread guys, and letting the mods know about my issues - finally I have posting privileges here!

So I agree with a lot of what's been said. The panel lines in the alpha was probably not the best move... but we live and learn, eh? I think the flight dynamics were fairly good (they were all based on the AP data, so the areas/deflections/etc. should be the same, and I seem to remember checking that the takeoff performance was in line with expectations. When flying unladen Lancs, it's worth remembering there's a huge excess of power! But engine performance is always going to be an absolutely key factor for FS models. The prop performance is somewhat strange in FSX - for example a feathered prop doesn't stay feathered once it stops (it has to be faked to stay feathered). The irony is that as the props are constant speed, the models that show the prop blades moving with the lever while the engine is stopped are wrong. The ideal would be to make the "fast" prop get thicker and thinner as blade pitch changes.

I was surprised I'd not done a Tallboy Lanc. Again... all of the ingredients were there. The early B.X has the bulged bomb bay doors of the right kind (the B.II has the other type), and the Grand Slam would have scaled. Hmm!

As Sundog and DickB commented, I've been working on and off on a new FSX Lanc that was heavily featured. One area I spent a lot of time on was the navigation side. What's often forgotten, I think, is that navigation was really the key to strategic bombing. I had a working representation of the air position indicator, Gee and H2S, a sextant, a "sort of" working bombsight, and a better compass. I'm tempted to tidy it up and release it, perhaps not "as is", but with some features more as ideas than complete.

 

[DaveB]

Nice to see you back Ed

ATB
DaveB

 

[DickB]

As Sundog and DickB commented, I've been working on and off on a new FSX Lanc that was heavily featured. One area I spent a lot of time on was the navigation side. What's often forgotten, I think, is that navigation was really the key to strategic bombing. I had a working representation of the air position indicator, Gee and H2S, a sextant, a "sort of" working bombsight, and a better compass. I'm tempted to tidy it up and release it, perhaps not "as is", but with some features more as ideas than complete.

I for one would certainly welcome a FSX PD Lanc in any form. The problem I have is that I have been considering moving to e.g. P3D for some time, and as far as I know, the FS9 model will not display external textures in DX10 (someone correct me if I am wrong !) Since it's the main a/c that I fly, that's a bit of a showstopper.

 

[BendyFlyer]

Dick B thanks for the link, I will have a good read over the next week. I am reassured by Ed's comments about checking the data some time ago. I think I commented that the swing and rudder bias required on climb impressed me re fidelity and it does get heavy on the controls at speed and in turns (again handling characteristics referred to in the original aircraft notes). As a small note you know this aircraft was easy to fly by looking at the original control wheel it was small and that immediately tells me that this was an aircraft that did not require large physical inputs from the pilot to fly easily.

Ed - correct re an unloaded Lanc it had a lot of power in reserve any went like a rocket without a bomb load or max fuel load.

I may have missed some earlier forum posts on the PD Lanc and other stuff re this one and I am glad to see there are many others who really appreciate this particular version of the Lancaster. I am certainly not into re-inventing the wheel so good to get some clarification. I might say I bought the PD version after trying out the Ross McLennan packages and being impressed with the time and trouble he had taken to reproduce this particular military operation.

Look forward to developments, if I can contribute more than happy too.

 

[BendyFlyer]

Ed Walters can I just say as a footnote to all the above posts that I think you did a great job with the Lancaster and think it is the best available and I would just like to publicly acknowledge that here. I can only imagine how much work went into making it possible and I have enjoyed using the model in FSX enormously in fact I sim with no other Lanc even though I have the others they just were not up to the standard.

As an old real multi-engine piston pilot my frustrations always come back to FSX and its peculiarities particularly with propellers and it is these limitations that make all FSX prop aircraft a bit of a pain in some regimes ( For example; I have seen endless posts on the Beech King Air and other turboprops etc and the inability to get them to taxy properly in beta range and having spent a lot of real time in them these criticisms of the FSX behaviour are correct they are dreadful really you could put a King Air into Beta and taxy around all over without ever touching the brakes). But when you think about it prop aircraft are regarded as a bit of an anachronism generally in aviation and propeller theory and the aerodynamics of props are poorly understood even by real world pilots which is why folks like myself ended up stuck in them for our careers. Anyhow I digress.

Thanks.

 

[DickB]

Ed Walters can I just say as a footnote to all the above posts that I think you did a great job with the Lancaster and think it is the best available and I would just like to publicly acknowledge that here. I can only imagine how much work went into making it possible and I have enjoyed using the model in FSX enormously in fact I sim with no other Lanc even though I have the others they just were not up to the standard.
Thanks.

Couldn't have said it better

 

[Sundog]

I've uploaded the paint kits (PS) here. They're a bit of a mess as they are for both the Lancs and Lancastrians. They are the external textures. I put them under FS2004 skins, since that is the sim for which they were originally designed. If you use them all I ask is that you note it in your releases. Also, if anyone is working on new British WW2 RPM or Boost gauges, let me know, as I have some textures for those too. See the attached images.

 

[DickB]

I have the following gauges converted as Saitek FIP gauges:

Air Speed Indicator
Altimeter
Artificial Horizon
Vertical Speed Indicator
Turn Slip Indicator
DF Indicator (working in FSX - I never could get the in-plane version to work in FSX)
DR Compass
Flaps Position Indicator
Boost Gauges
RPM Indicators
P-Type Compass (rotating the correct way - I also corrected the in-plane version which rotates the wrong way)

Some of these in the (rather poor) picture below.

These were made using (mainly) the original PD graphics and code (with Ed's agreement). But if there are better images available I can easily incorporate them. I think I made day and night versions of all of them, although I mainly use the day ones. If anyone has FIPs and is interested in any of them, pls let me know.

 

[DickB]

Re the discussion on interior textures. Over the weekend I had a go at 'improving' them. I'm no artist, so all I've done (mostly) is darken the existing textures and materials. The originals are accurate, but a bit bright for me. I'm quite pleased with the result, but it won't be for everyone. See what you think. These are for the Mk III.

 

[BendyFlyer]

Sundog or others. I think if the VC textures could be reworked the model would lose that unfinished look and would be whole new dimension, because in visual appearance, performance and handling, it is very authentic. There was not a lot of knob twiddling to do in a Lanc, you had a radio operator and a navigator and a bomb aimer/ordinance delivery person. Engine start was by external power on the ground. The aircraft was well behaved in all flight regimes and handled assymetric configurations well. So all this is nicely captured in the PD Lancaster.

So any word on the textures as say they would apply to the VC? whether there was an alternative set or do the VC textures just have to be reworked and I guess does anybody have any views re texture files for the PD Lanc and any idiosynchracies with texture mapping? I guess I might have a bit of crack to see what happens. I had very mixed results with previous non-native FSX models caused by mapping issues.

 

[DickB]

I'm sure Sundog and Ed can provide the detail. In doing my own 'enhancements' above I found I had to change both textures and materials (specified in MDL file). I would like to have changed some of the materials to textures, but that's way beyond my skill envelope, if indeed it is even possible in the current model. But in principle I agree - if the VC appearance could be brought up to date that would make a big difference. The flight model is fine.