Please need some help

michaelvader

michaelvader

Members +
Hallo friends
once again I tried to convert the Bell 47 G-2 from turbine to piston engine.
The version with skids does fly not to bad. But it is impossible to find a solution for the version with floats.
I tried a lot of solutions. When she is right swimming in a water spot she is unlandable on water.
every time in the jast moment she is as recatapulted in the air.
Now the actual contactpoint parameters are pure fantasy - i am bored that every time in the last moment
she springs back in the air.
So what I whish that some one will have a look on that damned floats so the chopper can land on water (and on land)
As a "school and beginners" helicopter she should not be too sensible and accept some roughter landings onwater and on land.
I hope some one is willing and able to give her the contact points to make her able to land correctly.

Best Regards

Michael
 

Attachments

  • Agusta Bell47 G-2 with floats.zip
    18.3 MB · Views: 10
Hi Wolfebee,
thank you tp answer,
I have the aircraft manager and for landbased aircrafts no problem. What I want to understand is what make an aircraft to bounce from a water surface.
I had this problemwith some of Erwin Welkers ships. Sadly never got an satisfying answer concerning the bouncing ships
Writing thisI just think about > might it be possible that my FS setting play a role? On the other hand with other aircrafts or helicopters with floats a have no problems.

Stillhope that one of the experts finds a solution to the problem and make this chopper landable on water

Best regards

Michael
 
For what it's worth I tried Robert Hawks version of the float version. (Quickest version I could grab) It flies fine on and off water and land. I tried your bird to confirm the hopping. Crazy. It was fine lifting off water just a bit and then landing. Getting a bit higher and adding a bit of speed it and it started the hopping.

For fun I transferred Hawks contact file into your file. Hopping and controllability even worse. I'll play around with it a bit later.

The real rotor guys can probably identify the problem more clearly and make recommendations.
 
Hi Michael,

with reference to the FS2004 AircraftContainer SDK [contact_points] section, I believe, you ought to consider further fine tuning the parameters: Static Compression, Ratio of Maximum Compression to Static Compression, and Damping Ratio in the aircraft cfg file

consider also referring to: https://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php/Contact_Points and https://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/r...ar-contact-points-for-fs2004-and-fsx-etc.301/ for assistance

from experience and per resources above, if I am not mistaken, also consider validating the parameter Vertical Position in conjunction with the parameters static_pitch and static_cg_height in ACM

hope the above proves helpful!

w.
 
I know that these two threads are from CFS2, but maybe between them there will be something to help fix this -

Rear Wheel - Contact Points tip

I lost my archive to all the old threads when SOH changed to the latest webb address, or I could answer this without a plea for help. There is an adjustment to an airplane's cfg file in the contact points that stops ground loops. Someone with better recall or access to some of the old tips files...
sim-outhouse.org

Help needed getting contact points right for a CFS2 amphibian.

Thanks to Martin Klein I now have a Vickers Viking with KNIL-textures for my Dutch East Indies CFS2. But in no way I manage to get the contact points right, the wheels constantly sink in the ground and on the water it acts more like a submarine than as a plane ( I can't get it in the air). If...
sim-outhouse.org
 
I think what I was calling "hopping' is really crash detection and reset. Hit hard and it resets at altitude. I dug out the original float release by Mr. Mermaz and it does the same if you let it settle in at above 500 FPM down or so. Same for the R Hawks modification. And your mod as well. Need to settle in very gently, I guess. All on water landings.
 
Thanks for the input. For fun I tried a couple other helos with floats and found the same characteristic when landing on water. Had to settle down softly or got the crash reset. No problem with landing somewhat harder on land before setting off crash.
 
Just for testing maybe try these contact points.

[contact_points]
static_pitch= 0.000
static_cg_height= 5.000
point.0= 4.000, 7.500, 4.300, -4.800, 1600.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.300, 2.500, 0.600, 0.000, 0.000, 3.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.1= 4.000, -2.500, -4.300, -4.800, 1600.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.300, 2.000, 0.600, 0.000, 0.000, 2.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.2= 4.000, -2.500, 4.300, -4.800, 1600.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.300, 2.000, 0.600, 0.000, 0.000, 3.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.3= 4.000, 7.500, -4.300, -4.800, 1600.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.300, 2.500, 0.600, 0.000, 0.000, 2.000, 0.000, 0.000

point.5= 2.000, -19.500, 0.000, -2.300, 1000.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.300, 2.500, 0.600, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.6= 2.000, 0.000, -17.000, 4.000, 500.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.7= 2.000, 0.000, 17.000, 4.000, 500.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.8= 2.000, 17.000, 0.000, 4.000, 500.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000
point.4= 4.000, 7.500, -4.300, -4.800, 1600.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 0.300, 2.500, 0.600, 0.000, 0.000, 2.000, 0.000, 0.000
 
Thanks. I just tried these contact points. Helo jumps all over just sitting there. I believe that is due to this particular model having different datums then the original.
I've tried other models landing on water today ( Mermaz original Bell 47 on floats, RHawks mod to that model on floats. Jet Ranger on floats. McD 500 on floats. Bell 205 on floats, etc,) They all set off crash or reset if you settle in greater than 500 FPM on water. At least they do on my FS9 install. Ground landings are much more tolerant.
 

Tuning the Virtavia CH-53 family

Virtavia offers the CH-53 in two flavors, the Sea Stallion (USMC and USN) and the Pavelow III (USAF). USMC/USN USAF These are BIG but fun helo's for FS9. They can dead-lift some very heavy loads while also performing some special OPS. For the most part, the FD is accurate (IMO) and...
sim-outhouse.org

This is roughly the same info only I was looking more at getting the gear to sit right on solid ground while avoiding the compression ratio hassles.
IMO, the compression ratio is usually the culprit and you might want to check if you're using settings for full skids. :unsure:
 

Help needed getting contact points right for a CFS2 amphibian.

Thanks to Martin Klein I now have a Vickers Viking with KNIL-textures for my Dutch East Indies CFS2. But in no way I manage to get the contact points right, the wheels constantly sink in the ground and on the water it acts more like a submarine than as a plane ( I can't get it in the air). If...
sim-outhouse.org

When in the mood I'm still trying, but though it will land on the water, it then starts sinking and finally explodes.

hertzie
 
Good day Mr. Zippy,
at first I tried you contanct points as in the post >the chopper did sink with the sail down and even on land it was not stable.
I than replaced at the intries o an3 the value 7.500 to -13.500 > and all changed!Thank you a lot!
In the meantime I have changed the main rotorblades weigt from 36.0 to 46.0 The choppers behaviour feel better with thaat value.
Thank y ou again
I am happy
 

Attachments

  • second successfull landing.jpg
    second successfull landing.jpg
    78.4 KB · Views: 2
Hi Erik. at first I was astonished to read that you need water contact points for a Vivkers Viking - - -?
What will he do with this post war passenger aircraft derivated from the Wellington bomber and water contact points?
There must be an error somewhere I thought - Yes from my side. Vickers build two different Vikings -an early lying boat and a lot of years later the passenger aircraft using the same name LOL LOL

Best regards
Michael
 
michaelvader said:
Good day Mr. Zippy,
at first I tried you contanct points as in the post >the chopper did sink with the sail down and even on land it was not stable.
I than replaced at the intries o an3 the value 7.500 to -13.500 > and all changed!Thank you a lot!
In the meantime I have changed the main rotorblades weigt from 36.0 to 46.0 The choppers behaviour feel better with thaat value.
Thank y ou again
I am happy
Click to expand...
Glad with a little tweaking it worked. Those contact points were from an FSX model.
 
I don't think you have a problem with your recip conversion. IMO, the water antics are just a characteristics of landing on FS9 water. Need to land gently. e\Every helo I tried did the same thing on water.

BTW, your conversion flies nicely. Needs some attention to maintain rotor rpm. I also like the active mixture control on the center ped, I always wanted to do that.
 
Now both versions, skids and floats seem to be allright.
The thing I could not resolve is the capacity for autorotation -but I can live without it.
There are a lot of repaints from other authors and some from me.
Now comes the badest thing to do, the manual - grrrrrrr
For the moment I slow down a bit as with 43°C outside and 32.8°C in my room the pleasure to work on the pc is a bit reduced.
We are all groggy here. In the neighbourhood department (finistèrre) thousends of people are with out electricity as the main transformator has burned out due to the hot weather conditions,
Hihi in a german site (those who do know me know which site I mean) a guy pretend that only flying from one airport to another with big birds using FMC, Gps and aircontrolers are serious flightsimming, those flying little birds and using well done counryside scenery should better use the newer sims as that is just gaming- I proposed him just to do a flight from Norderney to Trier-Föhren. Just using an old map from 1938 and well done sceneries. He did not answer to that Vous avez dit bizzare, comme c' est bizzare. I did this flight with an Messerschmitt 108 (nein nein nicht 109!) and passing over Cologne city it took about two hours.
Next flight will be island hopping on the north sea coast with the little Bell

Thank you friends for your kind advices
so FS2004 can continue a nice life

Best regards
Michael
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top