Polish airmen in WW1 ?

O

Olham54

The Bordeaux-Red Baron
Investigating about Polish airmen in WW1, I found this text (cut together here - see links for full version):

"In 1914, World War I was ignited. This was an opportune time for Poland’s rebirth, an idea that was initiated by a very popular Polish statesman named Józef Pilsudski.
Poles formed committees in France and the US to recruit Polish Nationals to form a Polish military force to fight alongside the western allies - France and England - with the intent to consolidate with forces being formed on Polish soil. In the US, the Polish Falcons Gymnastic Society was the focus of this above mentioned recruitment. At the urging of world famous pianist Ignacy Jan Paderewski, US President Woodrow Wilson signed a decree on October 5, 1917 permitting Poles to form their own army; however, because of US regulations, they could not train on US soil and for that reason, the Dominion of Canada graciously opened its borders for that purpose. (Tadeusz Kosciuszko Camp)

In 1917, this picturesque Niagara on the Lake community was the main assembly center for the volunteers and for the nucleus of Gen. Józef Haller's Blue Army. The term "Blue Army” came about because of the distinctive color of the French uniforms which were used by this newly formed Polish army. The cost of this army, its training, transport, etc. was subsidized by the French government. The Canadian training center was named the Tadeusz Kosciuszko Camp - after a US American Revolutionary War General who happened to be a young Polish engineer-soldier whose unique strategies allowed the American colonists to gain their independence.

As an interesting aside, because of the unexpected large numbers of volunteers, on Jan 17, 1918, the US War Dept. relented and granted specific permission for the use of Ft. Niagara on the American side of the river as an assembly point in the US for these recruits to the Polish Army. That site continued to be used as a staging area for trained soldiers en route to France until Feb. 18. 1918."

Here are some links to the informations I fiund so far:
http://pacb.bfn.org/bulletin/macielag/
http://www.hallersarmy.com/store/Remembrance.php
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww1/f/113/29/0/5_b2

I haven't found any detailed information though, if there were Polish pilots before 1919, fighting on the Allied side. Does any one round here know anything about this question?
 
Hey Olham54,

Yes, the Polish flew a few D.vII's and some D.vIII's late in the war and since there are no D.vIII's in P2 or P3.

Soooooo ..... how about a D.vII with Polish markings an a pink or lilac band around the fuselage, match the lower lozenge pink, and a violin on the side over the printed fabric.

....... and somewhere the lettering "Tatuś Dziewczyna".

What do you think?

WF2
 
Dziewczyna Tatusia would be more correct tatus dziewczyna translates into Daddy Girl as opposed to Daddy's Girl and Dziewczynka Tatusia if you want it to be Daddy's Little Girl.

Thank you btw Olham for looking into this. I don't know much about WWI as I am more follower of WWII. I do know that Merrian Cooper (the ?director ?producer of the original King Kong), is the person responsible for starting the Polish Air Force after Poland became a country again. Matter of fact there is a memorial honoring him in Lwow which sadly, is no longer part of Poland. A good book that has some of this history in it and alot of history about Polish airmen in WWII is "A Question of Honor". I highly recommend reading it if Polish aviation history interests you. http://www.amazon.com/Question-Hono...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1227755310&sr=8-1

Cheers,

John
 
Thank you, John
Before I found "Over Flanders Fields", I was also more interested in WW2 air combat (I like to fly "IL2: Stormovik" with a real wingman, via LAN - greatest fun that is, cause we sit side by side and can react immediately without radio. Wish, they had that possible in OFF). I knew, that in the Battle of Britain, there was at least one Polish squadron - hope, it will be in the Simulation, that should come out soon.
As for the Polish name, WOMENFLY2 suggested - wasn't he a great Polish general? (Forgive me for not knowing - I'm not Polish; just live very close to Poland). I don't think, she would write "Daddy's Girl" on her plane - this Lady flew a real Fokker DR. I and some other interesting planes!
Your Polish insignia under your name got me confused. In a book about air combat, they show it different (upper LEFT field and lower RIGHT in red) - what is correct? Thanks for the recommandation and help. Cheers; Olham

Hi, WomenFly2
Okay then, I'll do a Fokker D VII (and when they should put a D VIII into P3, I'd do that one too, as soon as I can open the skin). What do you say to John's suggestion of the name? And can you tell, how the Polish insignia is correct? Cheers; Olham
 
"Dziewczyna Tatusia", Daddy's Girl, is correct, been many years and my Polish not look so good. Thanks Polecat0942.

Thanks Olham54 for doing this! Hope you post some pictures as you go for all to see. Will be fun.

.... and I will always be Daddy's Girl. Without my Dad's influence I my life as a mentor and teacher, I would not have done all that I have done, accomplished all that I have or experienced such diversity in my life.

Cheers,
WF2
 
Olham, I have seen the insignia in many different positions even in a diamond shape. To be honest I have no idea what the exact correct position is. My cousin was in the Polish air force and even he can't tell me the correct position. He did tell me though that they used alcohol to cool the brakes on the fighter jets and subsequently someone found a way to use it in mixed drinks :costumes:. I was born originally in Zakopane, Poland, on the southern border with Slovakia in the Tatra range of the Carpathian mountains. I came here to the states when I was 4 years old. Though I am a bit of a history buff actual Polish history isn't a strong suit (wish I had payed attention in Polish school). I still maintain strong ties to the Polish community, and though I speak more of my hillbilly Polish dialect, I still speak alot of Polish at home. My wife is from Poland, barely 10 years here in the states. The reason I am offering this information is that, in the future, maybe I could be of some aide if it comes to translating anything. Also as far as BOB is concerned, there where more than one Polish fighter squadron, 303D being the most famous (lots of aces and if I'm not mistaken most kills during BOB) but ther were also I believe the 306th as well as a few more and some bomber squadrons. Prior to the US joining the war Poland was the third largest ally behind Britain and France. Poland also contributed Ground forces as well as naval vessals that escaped poland after the german occupation. Anyway I'm probably just rambling and giving more info than anyone really wanted.


Cheers,

John

P.S. Though I was a CFS man since the days of CFS1 I have become an immense fan of IL-2. I fly with the boys of 60 in a heavily modded version of IL-2 1946 (I know the topic is very touchy but I won't delve further). As good as Il-2 1946 is out of the box what the gentlemen at AAA have done with it has made it amazing.
 
You can fly OFF with other players Oldham chat to PD or the "boys from 60" that post on here
 
Maybe this will help Olham. Its a drawing of an Albatros J.I. It was used as an Infantry Close Support/Attack plane. It has post-war Polish Air Force markings. Circa 1919-mid 20s?
 
Sounds like a good campaign could be developed with the Koscusko Squadron fighting againsth the Bolsheviks in Poland in the 1920's
 
Hi Gals and Guys,

As for the 1919/20 war me and couple of teammates produced a mod called "War over Poland" which is split into 1920 and 1939 campaigns. It was done on the Targetware engine. Its free, as the engine is open beta.
As for the WW1 planes, we focused on the North-Eastern part of the front on Eastern Belarussia, where the front was located between September 1919-July 1920. We chose that location because there were serious dogfights between Poles and Bolsheviks. We used SPAD S.VII from Richthofen's Skies WW1 mod (150 HP and 180 HP versions), Sopwith Strutter, Nieuport N.12 (acting as N.10) and N.11. We did Nieuport N.24/24bis, DFW C.V, LVG C.V. RS Albatros D.III is acting as a Oeffag D.III (3D files are from Alb, flight model was built from scratch). Its multiplayer game. The graphics is outdated, but the flight model capabilities are the strong point of that engine.
I know that this is OFF forum, but I thought you may wish to know that something like that has been already done :) Iam attaching few images.

The PAF consited of many, many WW1 birds. After getting independence in Nov. 1918, the Poles had mostly German and Austro-Hungarian birds. Those were 2-seater trainers. In January 1919 Polish AF HQ contacted with Austro-Hungary to buy Oeffag D.III planes. During Uprising in the Poznan area (this part of the country is called Wielkopolska) in early 1919, the Poles captured huge Zeppelin hangar which contained about 300 used German planes which were storaged there.
prev6.jpg


Those became the backbone of the PAF. Later, Poland unoficially purhased some more planes from the Germans (Those were mostly scouts. I have some pricing for those planes somewhere in my house).
In the Spring 1919, the so called "Azure Army" of gen. Haller returned from France to Poland bringing 5 complete French squadrons flying S.VII's, Br XIV's and Salmsons. At the end of 1919, Polish govt. contaced with the Great Britain and received 10 S. Dolphins, some DH.9's and bought about 100 Brisfits with H-S engine. Also, more SPADs were bouth (VII and XIII). Also, Italian Ansaldo Balilla were bought and served in 7.Eskadra (The Kosciuszko Squadron)

As you can see, it was a mix of planes, pilots (some served in French aviation, some in the Russian, German or Austro-Hungarian) and armament. At the end of the war, some squadrons were equipped with French, some with British and some with German-only planes). Later, at the beginning of 20's, the backbone of the PAF were licensed built Ansaldo Balilla, Anslado 300, Breguet XIV, Fokker D.VII. The rest of the planes were disabled or sent to the flying schools.
 
:applause:Finally, I knew an expert would show up. :applause:

If there is ever a question about Polish aviation, DJWaglik is the man.

:friday:Na zdrowie,


John
 
Thank you all for your contributions; I didn't expect so many and so detailed; and it's nice to see almost a Polish or native-Polish community growing here.
Na zdrowje ! Olham
 
Thanks Gents,

Me and few other guys are active on FSX forum. We have relased few FSX birds as well, including Lublin R.XIII D/Ter, RWD-8 and RWD-14.

I post here rarely, but I admire OFF project very much. Ive never thought that so many incredible things would be possible on the CFS 3 platform. The attention to the detail and history are incredible. Especially on the repaints and terrain.

Best regards,
Lucas
 
Hi, Lukasz
Thanks for the link; great site. There I saw, how the Polish airforce sign is right.
SHREDWARD from the OFF-Team asked me, if I could find German Forums or sites, were to write about "OFF - Phase 3"; and I did.
Now I thought, if you could write about it in Polish, in the Forum on your site? If you don't know, what to write, I could prepare something in Englisch, that you might translate? I think, the OFF-Team could do with some "commercialising". Flieger-Grüsse; Olham
 
Olham54,

Me and couple of friends from SOH are also active users on Polish Flight Simulation Forum, where OFF has its own thread (most of the discussion is focused on IL-2, Falcon, LOMAC/DCS/FSX, but there are big threads about other titles, just like OFF). It shall become more popular since CFS3 has been recently launched here as repacked "low cost" product. 1-2 years ago, CFS3 was hard to find and buy (I bought my copy in the UK few years ago, when I was on vacation) :)

Womenfly2,

This is some very good website. Mr. Kowalski wrote many mini -monographies and he is a specialist regarding paintschemes and insignias.
Here are some personal markings:
http://tomaszjkowalski.republika.pl/go_os/album_os.htm
..and here there are squadron insignias from 1919-20 period. All taken from the book "In the memory of fallen aviators" from 1933:
http://tomaszjkowalski.republika.pl/go_es/album_es.htm


Best,
Lucas
 
haber-1.gif

Adam Haber-Włyński - Albatros D.III

haber-1a.gif


Thanks djwaglik for the links! This would work, I'm pretty catty anyway.

LOL!.
WF2
 
Thankyou WF2 and Olham for the Polish translations! My daughter loves it! Since the grandparents and great grandparents are gone, we've had no one to ask. And my Polish is even worse than my German, and my French is absolutely horrid.
 
Oooh, good find, womenfly2!
Personal aircraft of Adam Haber-Wlynski, head instructor in advanced maneouvers on Lawica aerodrome 1919/20.
He was a student of Roland Garros before WW1 and got his license in France. He was nicknamed "Le Diable" for incredible abilities in the air. Later, from about 1914 to 1919 he was a test pilot in DUKS aircraft factory in Russia. During the Revolution he returned to Poland and became instructor. In 1921 he became test pilot for the Plage&Laskiewicz factory in Lublin which was producing licecsed Ansaldo Balillas. Unfortunatly, he died in one of those planes which had dreaded nickname "Flying Coffins" in the PAF because of the weak structure and bad craftmanship.

His Albatros was carrying standard German cammo - lila + green on wings, azure on the bottom and clean plywood fuselage. The German crosses were overpainted.

All the best,
Lucas
 
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