Poll: Radios and GPS in a classic aircraft.

[fsxar177]

The question is pretty simple.

Classic Aircraft - Only equipped with radios from the era, and of course, no GPS.
Would you still prefer to have 2D pop-up panels, with more modern equipment?

 

[SpaceWeevil]

It's nice to be asked - and yes I would prefer. I do all my flying in the present day and value the pop-up GPS at least, representing the hand-held units that many people use, even if only as a backup (honest..).

 

[Alan_A]

Always appreciate a pop-up GPS... or even better (thought it's much more work), two different VC panel options, one with some modern "amenities" and another that's pure vintage, as if it was a period restoration. I love the atmosphere of a pure vintage panel but it's also nice to be able to operate a slightly tweaked version that can be operated in modern airspace.

I'm particularly impressed by the range of panel options in the Warbirdsim Mustang line, especially the representations of modern aircraft that have been fitted with up-to-date nav instruments that fit well visually in an otherwise vintage VC.

Again - I recognize that creating something like that is a huge amount of work that not every developer will want to put in. So this isn't a request that you go to those lengths - just noting some preferences. Hope it's helpful.

 

[fsxar177]

Great response fellas.

I agree 100% with Alan.

- Joseph

 

[Hanimichal]

More options = more customers.
Limit your product and will have specific customers only

 

[Rudyjo]

What I like best is the compromise between the old and new, the map that comes with all the A2A planes. I find it easier to use than a GPS. I add it to all my older planes.

 

[Dev One]

Interesting, as all my aircraft have been vintage, I have tried to represent them for that era, but recognising that some simmers like flying in 'modern'times I normally add a handheld radio & a GPS as popups. Some of my models where they still exist I try to replicate their current installations, both Dragonflys for example are as they now are, as is also the Miles M3A Falcon G-AEEG.
Keith

 

[griphos]

I prefer vintage aircraft to have vintage equipment, but I do like it when a developer includes a Garmin 295 or similar handheld GPS, sort of like Carenado's C185 or A2A's Cherokee. This is the most realistic option.

 

[PRB]

Always appreciate a pop-up GPS... or even better (thought it's much more work), two different VC panel options, one with some modern "amenities" and another that's pure vintage, as if it was a period restoration. I love the atmosphere of a pure vintage panel but it's also nice to be able to operate a slightly tweaked version that can be operated in modern airspace.

I'm particularly impressed by the range of panel options in the Warbirdsim Mustang line, especially the representations of modern aircraft that have been fitted with up-to-date nav instruments that fit well visually in anotherwise vintage VC.

Again - I recognize that creating something like that is a huge amount of work that not every developer will want to put in. So this isn't a request that you go to those lengths - just noting some preferences. Hope it's helpful.

What Alan said...

 

[gman5250]

I prefer the option to have a GPS available on call. I have a HUD/GPS/Radio set that I install on many of my aircraft, including pre GPS. Hotkeys or controller switch call the functions.
Sometimes it's convenient to have a HUD popup when in outside view just to make a quick check of vitals.

A 2D panel with nav options would get my vote.

Overall it's nice to have the choice.

 

[Javis]

So you guys like vintage aircraft but you don't like the way they were flown/navigated. For Heaven's sake why ???..... ( sorry, just curious )

Personally i have always found it kinda magical to be able to use the same Jeppesen En Route and Terminal charts that RW pilots use ( or used to use.... ). The demise of this magic started with the appearance of FSNav for FS2K (IIRC) which made the use of En Route charts redundant. It went the same way with my beloved Terminal charts with the appearance of GPS for FS.

Mind you, i am a flightsimmer from the days of FSII on a Commodore 64 and learned about flying and particularly navigation thru the manual books that came with it (i still have them). Magic!

Ok, i was fortunate enough to be able to get my dirty hands on a complete set of Jeppesen En Route charts for Europe and the US and an almost complete set of Terminal charts for Europe. For the US i used a complete set of NOAA Terminal charts.

Flying a DME Arc approach in the murk by the use of a Terminal chart beats the living hell out of dialing in a few numbers into that GPS thingy i can tell you.

It's bad enough that we have to use a computer to fly our beloved vintage aircraft. Why on earth have a virtual computer on top of that to take all the fun out of navigation ? ( don't let me get started on an FMC.. )

Fly vintage navigate vintage, that's my motto. Never tried it ? Check this out :

http://www.simplates.com/?gclid=CNPekcCamccCFSQFwwodassNAA


Cheers,
Biggles

 

[stansdds]

Alan_A is spot on! Both! The purists or those looking to enjoy originality need the vintage cockpit. But for those of us who are modern era fliers, we appreciate more modern radios and GPS. Having two cockpits, one vintage and the other modernized, would be the best of both worlds. And yes, I do understand that it takes a lot more work, but you end up appealing to more potential users, so the extra work might be considered an investment.

Another thing that MilViz did with their Cessna 310R was to include a model with a blank radio section. The user adds whatever radios, radar, GPS, etc. they can cram into the available space. I wish more developers would follow MilViz's lead.

 

[Dumonceau]

Sometimes it's convenient to have a HUD popup when in outside view just to make a quick check of vitals.

Indeed, a very nice thing in your Tigerkitty!!

Johan

 

[cavaricooper]

Jan-

I have had lots of fun flying in London Control area with the C-47 dressed in RAE colors with a Kestrel call sign. Navigating the SIDS and STARS with only raw data (I usually leave both GPS' off) is a challenging and rewarding pursuit. I concur.

Best- C

 

[Alan_A]

So you guys like vintage aircraft but you don't like the way they were flown/navigated. For Heaven's sake why ???..... ( sorry, just curious )

Love the way they were flown/navigated, and learned to do it pretty much the way you did. In my case it was in MSFS for Macintosh, c. 1985, using the FAA approach plates (cheaper than Jepp charts).

It's just that FSX isn't always satisfying as a period sim, and I like the idea (or at least, like having the option) of handling a vintage aircraft in modern airspace with the added convenience of a transponder and a GPS, at least for visualization (note: no reference here to FMS or magenta lines or even autopilot!). As others have said, I sometimes operate as though I was flying an old aircraft to an airshow, or otherwise attracting lots of attention when I bring something with big radials into a 2015 airport.

And as my culture hero Saint-Ex once observed, a true adventure is one where you have all the best and most current technology at your disposal - if you artificially restrict yourself from using it, the adventure is sort of an ersatz.

Side note: I do a lot of this in my local (Washington, DC) airspace, which is so complicated and so restricted that the GPS picture really helps. And one of my local fields (KCGS) offers only one IAP, which is a GPS/RNAV procedure.

So in all, it's nice to have the option of flying this way... but also nice to do without sometimes and go back to the old ways. It's a shame those FS9 radio ranges don't port well into FSX/P3D.

Now, having made all these points, I've just decided to take all the GPS options out of my A2A Comanche and see if I can get in and out of my local neighborhood using only VORs.

I suppose it depends on my mood...

PS - I'll happily fly your DC-3 VVC with whatever equipment you include when it comes out of the shop!

 

[rdaniell]

All of the airplanes that I've owned in real life only had a compass in them. I did my cross country flying using sectional charts for flight planning. I then used time, distance, and land check points along the way. Nothing more rewarding than crossing over the middle of the destination airport's runway right on time.

What my position then is: Vintage panels for vintage airplanes.

RD

 

[Alan_A]

You know, another aspect of this for my flightsim fantasy life (which is, apart from training, what we're talking about here) is that, when it comes to GA, I like to fly the kind of equipment I could afford in real life. Since I'm now post-corporate, that's pretty restricted. So I could see my way to a used Garmin 295 for the sake of safety. But stuffing a $17,000 GTN750 into a $20,000 airplane? Not so much. Happy to play with those things if it's somebody else's aircraft, but I don't like debt, so I'm going to stay more basic. Maybe this line of reasoning applies to a C170. Noted for what it's worth.

Great discussion, BTW.

 

[Bjoern]

Where's the option for both?

 

[William Njurmi]

Best addons do have the choice. Let´s remember for example the Classics Hangar´s Me108 and some Lionheart´s planes that have the GPS unit hidden in the glove box...

I´ve been quite annoyed by kind of default approach to this matter i.e. offering only the modern way. For example the V35 Bonanza and C195 (Alabeo). There is a flock of more modern versions of those planes available, so why choosing the same way for these classics. Same goes with the newest offerings, Navajo and Titan. These planes had their best days in 70ies and 80ies before GPS. So, why there is no option for that period style of flying?

 

[Dutcheeseblend]

Joseph, I guess it wouldn't harm if you add modern/default radios and GPS in a 2D popup (shift+8, shift+9 etc). In the meanwhile, model the period radio and code it accordingly. What I'm planning to do with my prewar T.5, is just adding a simple GPS (handheld) and radio (handheld as well) in a 2D popup, while having the huge Telefunken sender and receiver units in the back of the aircraft. They will fake the radios: Vintage Telefunken model -> Some bit of code -> FSX radio system.
For GPS I figured another neat VC feature: the WebSimGauge OpenStreetMap. Just a 2D gauge projected on 3D mesh, that will display the plane's location on an Openstreetmap, that looks like an old navchart (someway). Still have to tune the architecture though, but these are my plans.

Regards, Daan