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  • Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.

    Post 16 Update

    Post 17 Warning

Prince Williams ASR Helicopter

H

Helldiver

Charter Member 09
Prince William's ASR Helicopter fly over when the couple left in the Aston Martin convertible was a master stroke and I believe totally unexpected by the Prince. Probably an inside job, with Prince Harry tipping the pilot of the Heli when to take off by radio.
The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight was just priceless and it makes an old guy like me thrilled to see these 65 year old planes still flying in the RAF
It's too bad that we colonials do not have a traditition like that, especially the U.S. Navy.
 
You 'colonials' do perfectly well with organizations such as the CAF. And remember, while the RAF operates the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight, there are a heck of a lot more warbirds flying here that are privately owned, including the Avro Vulcan and the B-17 'Sally B '. :)
 
Even the English Royal Navy have their own warbirds that they fly as well, comprising of a Swordfish, Sea Fury, Sea Hawk, and Chipmunk: http://www.royalnavyhistoricflight.org.uk/home/

In the United States, I feel the closest thing we have are the Heritage (USAF) and Legacy (USN) Flight teams, which comprise of current USAF and USN crews and aircraft flying with warbirds that are either privately owned or organizationally owned. Their goals I believe are much the same that I think the RAF and RN have, and that is to show the public, and commemorate, the history of the nation's military, past and present. The only difference being that the USAF and USN depend on private owners for the warbirds, instead of operating their own. I feel the closest thing to the US military operating 'warbirds', are the F4 Phantoms that the USAF has flown as part of the Heritage Flight Program in recent years.
 
We don't need any F-4 Phantoms flying. They fought in, but never won a war.
We need a flight of a Corsair, a Hellcat an Avenger and a Helldiver, flown by U.S.Navy pilots in good old canvas helmets.
Thats tradition
The CAF don't cut it. You look at the disrepair the SB2C is in. I wouldn't fly in it on a bet.
 
Right now, to accomplish that formation, the CAF is the only organization, the world over, that could. Obviously wealthy, private individuals, could have nicer looking airplanes, but the CAF is a non-profit organization, that depends on volunteers and donations to keep a fleet of 150+ WWII era aircraft flying. And their Helldiver looks pretty good if you ask me...it was completely repainted not much more than a year ago, after the paint had aged quite a bit over a couple of decades of flying. If it wasn't legally nor properly airworthy, it would not be flown.

helldiver.jpg


While I too have my own 'opinion' as to what constitutes the warbirds I'd like to see flying in person, I am under the belief that many Vietnam-era USAF and USN pilots and crew would like to see one or two of their old work-horses flying, just as much as any other service pilot or crew throughout military aviation history.
 
Helldiver said:
We don't need any F-4 Phantoms flying. They fought in, but never won a war.
We need a flight of a Corsair, a Hellcat an Avenger and a Helldiver, flown by U.S.Navy pilots in good old canvas helmets.
Thats tradition
The CAF don't cut it. You look at the disrepair the SB2C is in. I wouldn't fly in it on a bet.
Click to expand...

Seems a bit harsh to all who have flown and fought her, the F-4. I remember as a kid, watching F-4's streaking in low over Holloman and Zweibrucken and being just as proud of those pilots as I am of any military veteran, of any era. But perhaps I am too young to understand honor,respect and humility.
 
The F-4 was the airplane that got me interested in flying. My generation was highly influenced by Top Gun, but the local Guard unit had F-4Ds. There's something about brute force ugly. The flying brick with a lot of smoke and noise behind it.
 
Railrunner130 said:
The F-4 was the airplane that got me interested in flying.
Click to expand...


Me too...I grew up watching/hearing RAF F-4's and USAFE F-4's amongst many other aircraft types.None made as much as an impression on me as the Phantom. But then again...I'm from the "oil burner" generation. ;):icon_lol:
 
Helldiver said:
We don't need any F-4 Phantoms flying. They fought in, but never won a war.
We need a flight of a Corsair, a Hellcat an Avenger and a Helldiver, flown by U.S.Navy pilots in good old canvas helmets.
Thats tradition
The CAF don't cut it. You look at the disrepair the SB2C is in. I wouldn't fly in it on a bet.
Click to expand...

Now now, Helldiver. I flew the F-4 Phantom. I also grew up hearing stories of The Flying Tigers, Major "Pappy" Boyington, and others. These stories had a big influence on my desire to be a fighter pilot.

I have never questioned the courage and skill of any WWII pilot, seaman, or solider or that of the airplanes you flew. Why do you question the F-4 and its crew members? I can assure you the loss of that war had NOTHING to do with the F-4 Phantom's lack as a fighter/bomber or its crew members' skills.

It had everything to do with the politicians in Washington, which your generation elected. If you would read the history of SEA aviation you will see that time and time again, it was the skill and courage of the air crews that made headway, in spite of the idiot ROE we had to fight under. What what have happened to WWII if the politicians in Washington told the Marines on Iwo Jima that the Japaneses soldiers firing out of caves were off limits? Or the bombing of Dresden and other cities of the German industrial machine were a NoNo? Or....

I will fight any man who tries to tell me the soldiers, seamen, or airmen lost Vietnam. We didn't!
 
Helldiver said:
We don't need any F-4 Phantoms flying. They fought in, but never won a war.
We need a flight of a Corsair, a Hellcat an Avenger and a Helldiver, flown by U.S.Navy pilots in good old canvas helmets.
Thats tradition
The CAF don't cut it. You look at the disrepair the SB2C is in. I wouldn't fly in it on a bet.
Click to expand...
Would be willing to bet the Phantom dropped more tonnage of bombs and kept the peace longer than all of those birds above put together, over the course of it's career. Certainly proved to be a more durable asset than the WWII birds mentioned above, so would argue that it does deserve a place in iconic history, flown by all branches of the military except the Army. Anyway, I know it's going off topic, just thought it deserved a respectful rebut rather than just ignoring the earlier statement of arrogance.
 
Helldiver said:
We don't need any F-4 Phantoms flying. They fought in, but never won a war.
Click to expand...

AndyG43 said:
The Israelis might question that statement. :kilroy:
Click to expand...

Very TRUE but the Israeli would question many of the statements here as they had rarely the choice(at all) with what to fly or fight.Most cases the only thing they had was strong will

To aid this statement please consider that early I.A.F pilots flew Avia S-199,one of the most impossible fighter planes in post WW2 history.

http://www.machal.org.il/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=270&Itemid=369&lang=en

Roland

(I am from Austria not Israel)
 
Any airman who's job is to fly, knowing someone else may fire at him from the air or ground, whether with AAA in the 1940's or SAMs in later decades, get's my respect.:salute:
 
Quote : jmig "I will fight any man who tries to tell me the soldiers, seamen, or airmen lost Vietnam. We didn't!"

I'm on both sides of the fence here so to speak . I was in Vietnam but my dad(RIP) was on Iwo Jima and Guam in the USMC . He was extremely proud to be a WWll veteran and a life member and past Commander of the local American Legion . One thing he never did was bring up the fact that I was in a "lost war". He was very proud I served as I was he , "The Greatest Generation".

I agree with you on this one John . Very well put , and thank you for your courageous service as an F-4 pilot . My second favorite plane :icon_lol: The sound , AB and smoke was something to watch on F4's taking off at Danang .

Rich:salute:
 
I was pleasantly surprised with HD's first post, and agree with him it was a classy thing to do by the RAF. To that end, I salute the efforts of any nation to honour it's heroes in uniform. Whether because of, or in spite of, the political leadership their country gave them, uniformed soldiers who fought courageously are worthy of respect.

Alas, why does it always spin out of control to a repetitive and nonsensical chest-thumping about the same WWII aircraft? I tire of hearing the presumed moral supremacy of "my service" in "my machine" of "my corps". It is as laughable as it is immature. Those of us who have served, and especially those of us who have had the privilege of command, have a special opportunity to show that the virtues of humility and respect are in peacetime, what the necessities of courage and valour are in wartime.

dl

ps - thanks Rich and John for your service; with at least two FSX projects I'm aware of (French Royale Navy Crusader and A2A Phantom), your individual insights may prove useful to those teams.
 
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