Project Dornier Do-17z2

[smilo]

okay, here's what i've got so far
for gauges in the do17;
190 and 109 tachs are the same and work,
190 and 109 boost pressure both work.
neither, oil temp gauges work.
neither, oil & fuel pressure gauges work.
109 radiator temp gauge doesn't work.

my dual engine fuel pressure gauge works.
but dual oil pressure, dual manifold pressure
and dual cyl head temp gauges don't work
in the do17, but do work in an a20 test model.
also, it's notable that these gauges are squirrelly.
you'd have to see how they act for yourself.

i don't know for sure, but,
it appears there might be an issue with the do17 air file.

 

[Ivan]

Hello Smilo, Aleatorylamp,

My Son is better but now I think I have his bug. Definitely have a fever and lots of aches and chills.
Thus, Ivan's Workshop is closed for the day.

Regarding the 109 Radiator Temp gauge, there is no radiator in a radial engine aeroplane, so that is pretty reasonable.
I suppose it isn't a bit surprise that the AI Flight Models have issues.
I know even some of the flyable ones have issues which is why I try to start from the stock P51D or something derived from it.
I believe there are issues with the stock P47D which is how I got my first F6F Hellcat Flight Model.

If you are only having a problem with the FSFS Tachometers, try adjusting the Max Governed RPM.
I believe that is the factor that screws things up with the Tachometers from FS98.

One other factor to look for is the Fuel Tanks records.
I know that if they are not the Record 5XX individual records sometimes weird things happen.
The two record setup with one defining quantities and another defining locations does not seem to work well.

This is just from memory, so of course your mileage may vary.

Good Night.
- Ivan.

 

[smilo]

no radiator temp makes sense, Captain Obvious.
but, why no to the oil temp gauges,
or, the oil & fuel pressure gauges working?

not to worry about it...
bundle up, drink lots of liquids and rest.
if this is the bug i had a month ago,
it's going to take more than a day to recover.
mine hung on for a week.
feel better soon.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
So it´s the .air file again. Why don´t I ever think of these things?
Every time I read your "Captain Obvious" I have to laugh out loud!

Hello Ivan,
Herb tea (e.g. peppermint + thyme + coriander + rosmarin ) + lemon + honey seems to work quite well and is relieving. Get better!
I´ll have a look at the parameters you mention in the .air file - Thanks!

And here I thought I was being smart by adapting the Do17 AI .air file.
I love .airfiles... My mother used to say "why make it simple if you can also make it complicated?

Update:
Live and learn - One never ceases to learn interesting things. Thanks to both of you for pointing out the .air file issues.
The Do17 AI .air file I used for the Schnellbomber... Grrrrr... I should have known... obviously has several simplifications:
No CFS specific sections for Tanks, EGT, CHT, Oil Temp, Oil press, Fuel Press. Any others missing...?
Captain Obvious... Ha ha!
Isn´t it wonderful when one knows how? I put all those "new goodies" in, and of course...
now all the FSFS Gauges except Fuel Flow work! I´ll see if I can fix that one too...
Lowering Max. Governed RPM to 2500 seems to protect the RPM gauge too... Great stuff!

Many thanks again,
Aleatorylamp

 

[smilo]

captain obvious strikes again.
i'm glad you like him, so do i.

am also pleased, that you found
the air file issues...it seemed logical,
but actually, i was just guessing.
i'm not an air file kinda guy.
it's all too complicated for a person
who believes in the kiss principle.
keep it simple stupid...that's my credo.
(he said, as he started up ad2k)

your mother's quote is perfect.
it should be your profile signature quote.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
What a nice day! I hadn´t laughed so often in the morning for a long time. My mother had some good expressions!

A good guess is as good as an arduous deduction.
I put in all the missing .air file sections, and here´s the new .air file - complete! Done!
Obviously I didn´t bother with the water radiator...
An interesting detail is that the manifold pressure needle and dial only go up to 35 inches of mercury. That would be 1.1 Atmospheres, but with that, the needle only marks 30 inches and should go up to 35.
It seems not to be too inaccurate for 1 atmosphere or less, but superchargers would need a much larger scale.

Then, whatever I try, there´s no way to get the Fuel Flow needle to work. Lovely, these .air files, aren´t they? But shhhhh!! We mustn´t complain!!! At least aeroplanes seem to be able to be made to fly better and more realistically with a decent .air file than in any of the newer simulators, where I find everything feels a bit wishy-washy dampened and cottony. Or maybe it´s just me - I don´t want to offend anyone.

Attachment: Updated Do-17z2 air file - i.e. no longer AI !!

OK: Then the next step is to see if any of the FSFS dual-needle gauges are worth doctoring up with WWII frames and maybe metric dials... What do you think? ...I probably don´t know what I´m letting myself in for, but I´m going to try.

Cheers,
Aleratorylamp

 

[smilo]

any day with a smile,
is a good day.
add laughter and it's even better.

a quick thought about,
"the manifold pressure needle
and dial only go up to 35 inches of mercury."
is this the stock german gauge?
is it possible, it's metric?

been playing with the bomb aimer panel.
nothing positive to report,
other that i've been playing with it.

heading back to bed for a few hours.

do you have daylight savings time?
if so, when does it take effect?

 

[Ivan]

Hello Smilo, Aleatorylamp,

Glad you figured it out with the AIR file.
I believe the fuel flow is a gauge incompatibility problem.
If you check out the Beckwith Test Panel, it reads fuel flow just fine.
If I were you, I would not worry much about a fuel flow gauge issue. It isn't a common instrument.
Give Mr. Virtual Pilot the gauges s/he needs to effectively pilot the aeroplane.

I should have stated this last night, but was a bit too tired:
Get a copy of Jerry Beckwith's AirDump and AirUpdate programs.
Dump your Dornier 17 AIR file and compare just the records present with a dump of the stock P-51D AIR file.

Regarding the FSFS and FS98 stock gauges:
They are really intended for the modern very lightly supercharged General Aviation types.
I think I mentioned this a few times, but with the old WW2 Warbirds, the boost levels were much much higher.
The FS98 SDK allowed up to 65 inches Mercury (65536 / 1000) which is quite sufficient for most of the old Warbirds.
My B-25C Mitchell needs about 44.0 inches Hg and the P-38s need around 57 inches if I remember correctly.
I have had working FS98 versions of those gauges for a couple years now.

I can send you what I have there if you want to try replacing BMPs with something more suitable.
I don't think the FS2000 stuff will work as well because they are all multi-gauges; I don't know how to program just a single one there.

Just for informational purposes, the late model Merlin Spitfires could run up to around 85 inches of Mercury (+24 Pounds Boost) and modern unlimited class air racers are running well over 100 inches under race conditions.

The Tachometer issue can be addressed to some extent with the Maximum Governed RPM variable, but the problem is that I also use that variable to adjust propeller animations. Also, I wanted a Tachometer that would work with ANY CFS AIR File instead of just ones that tweak to match the gauge.

Now you know why I found the available stock instruments inadequate and had to figure a way to program my own versions.

- Ivan.

P.S. The stock German gauges read up to about 1.8 ATA which is equivalent to about 52 inches of Mercury.
P.P.S. Oops, I lied. I have a Single Manifold Pressure gauge. Once I had the concept, I never programmed a second.
It would not be hard to change it, but it will take a couple hours to set up the new directories and duplicate source code.
Let me know if you need. I am not going to bother if you do not need.

 

[aleatorylamp]

I only use them directly in a corner of the main panel, just for ambience. They are so small,
you can´t tell what they indicate, so that´s irrellevant anyway - IF they all worked, of course.

That´s why I was using them, and always took for granted they worked like in FS98, and never
checked them for CFS. Serves me bloody right!!

Oddly enough, there was a moment this morning when suddenly Engine 1 Fuel Flow worked,
showing 15 USG/Hour, but after that, never again!

Yes, we have daylight saving time. Your last post arrived at about 12.15 midday, juyst when the
server got too busy and I couldn´t answer! Right now it´s 4.30 in the afternoon, with this edit.
So maybe you´re just getting up for your morning tea or coffee! Bon apetit!

Hello Ivan,
OK, I see your point about the stock and FSFSconv gauges now! Hmmmm...
Thank you very much for your offer, but it´s not necessary to send anything now.
I´m actually looking for a stop-gap to solve things with present resources, so I prefer
not to slow you down now.

Usually in FS98, they have on the main panel only engine-1 gauges for general information,
and then you can open a secondary engine panel showing all the engine-gauges lined up in
neat rows.

So I could, for an imminent upload:
A) Show only general engine info with available stock German engine-1 instruments
(the stock 1.8 ATA Manifold pressure one will of course be fine!).
Possibly this is the elegant and quite practical choice.
B) Use the working FSFSconv ones in my usual fashion only for ambience, their details
being irrellevant as they are too small to show up anyway, even if Fuel Flow doesn´t
work and Manifold Pressure maxes out too soon. A more practical but less elegant choce?

Later, the time will come for fully-fledged and spectacular Do-17Z panel with all the bells
and whistles, to be uploaded and celebrated! A good reason not to change present FSFSconv
bitmaps - too much work if a new panel will be had in the future!

So, that is the situation as far as I can see after analysing the options for now.
I´d feel inclined to just using Stock engine 1 gauges for the time being. What would you say?

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[smilo]

i was asking about daylight savings,
because it just changed last weekend,
so, now, i'm -7 hours gmt.
if i had my druthers,
i'd keep standard time,
but, i'm in the minority.
i guess i'm always bucking the tide
in some fashion or another.
story of my life.

if i might ask,
would you hold off uploading the do17,
until, maybe, this weekend?
i'll see if i can focus enough to finish
a panel or two for you.
no promises, but, i'll try.

i'm off to check out the new
and improved do17 air file
and to try out a couple panel ideas
i got while dozing off this early AM.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Smilo,
No problem, I can hold off for as long as required!
I´m not rushing the upload as there are too many undecided factors yet, even for an upload without the final panel.

I´d prefer standard time too any day! It plays hell on the body-clock for over a week, especially for children. There´s no point anyway, as what you save on electricity in the evening you spend in the morning.

OK, then I´ll back check and upload if there is a general consensus!
I´m off to an afternoon class!
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp

 

[smilo]

i have a promising idea or two
for modifying the old bomber panel.
we shall see how it goes.
don't wait too long for me, though.
i don't want to hold up the show.

another word about daylight savings.
as i've said before, i'm an old druid.
i like solstices, equinox,
and when i look straight up at noon,
the sun should be at the zenith.
i understand the commercial reasoning
for daylight savings, but, i don't like it,
especially, in the northern latitudes.

enough grousing about things
i have no control over.
i've got work to do.

 

[Ivan]

Hey Guys,

Check your email.

- Ivan.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
Thanks for the tip. I got the AirUpdate program and dumped the P51d and Do17z2 .air files after completing the missing records.
The AI .air file has only 100 records, and the P51d has 115.
A useful little programme! Now both .air files have 115 records, but something is still strange:
As I didn´t put in the water radiator temperature record, it should now have 114 records, so there´s one too many, but I´ll find it!
Very interesting...
Cheers,
Aleatorylamp.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
I just checked my e-mail. Good heavens, it´s fantastic. The gauges are incredibly exact, and perfectly in style with the Bf109!
Wonderful work indeed - you will have to give your technician a raise...
Aleatorylamp

 

[Ivan]

Hello Aleatorylamp,

Now you are starting to understand why I don't like starting with the AI Flight Models.
I don't really know exactly how many things work in the AIR file either, but I HAVE figured out a bunch of things that do not work.


Let me know if you find anything weird with the gauge set.
I did very minimal testing on those.

- Ivan.

 

[smilo]

sorry to say, i haven't check email
for most of the day...been busy
trying to construct a do17 bomb aimer bmp.

as with most projects, it's tedious.
especially so, when dealing with a mouse
that likes to seize at most inopportune times.
fortunately, all i have to do is unplug
and then, replug the damn thing.
no big deal, except, when one has to do it consistently.
be that as it may, progress is being made,
but, i need a break.

so, as soon as i'm done here,
i'll go check email and check out the new toys.

 

[Ivan]

More Toys in Email

Hello Guys,

Check your email again.....
This batch was considerably harder than the last batch.
I had a lot more changes to make for this set to work properly.

That should be enough for you two to get a pretty good start.

- Ivan.

 

[smilo]

boy, i'll say...they look great.
many thanks, indeed.


i've spent the last few hours
dinking around with bomb aimer bitmaps.
although far from complete,
this is what i have so far.

this is actually, three layered bitmaps.
the wall sections are two upper b-17
with the bottom being an upper, flipped.
i made the center glazing from scratch today.

the side windows need modification
and i would have preferred the horizontal piece
to have aligned with the site,
but, for now, it isn't in the cards.
if it's moved up,
it wouldn't align with the walls.

now, it's to bed for a few hours.

 

[aleatorylamp]

Hello Ivan,
Hello Smilo,

Wow! It feels like Christmas - I just saw the arrival of the Manifold pressure gauges and have to unwrap the present.
The Bomb Aimer panel looks very professional, very fitting and gives a sensation of reality there, for the view from the forward canopy. Great work. When you´re finished have a cat kill your mouse for being obnoxious - or maybe not - give it a prize for managing notwhithstanding!!

For the moment, I tried the RPM gauges in my own "default Do17" panel, and the gauges really do the job, don´t they?
I can´t wait to try it out with the new Manifold Pressure ones!

Have to chauffer the girls to school now.

Update: OK, I´ve put in the new ATA Gauges, re-adjusting my provisional panel. I´ve included an engine quadrant on the right like on the photos. Wow! The new gauges add a lot to the panel, even though the panel isn´t quite authentic. Very pleasing, I must say. The screenshot is updated too.

The panel perhaps has a "modernized, old look", like the styled clothes the Knights of Camelot wore in the film "First Knight", with Sean Connery, Julia Ormond and Richard Gere.

Cheers,
Aleatorylamp