Question for the developers

Pol

There is no way we can give a date until it's done. When no issues are reported (and they are getting to be minor issues now)..
Click to expand...

If a release that has no issues is what your waiting for, just shoot yourself now.:icon_lol: I'd be willing to bet that after significant numbers of people (I would say hours but it's not like people are going to be able to go to the local Best Buy and pick it up off the shelf) get P3 in hand, you'll have ten pages of post identifying problems with P3. I'm sure you'll even get one or two blue screens of death. There is just no way that a small group of testers can possibly completely test something as large as P3. Hell just the variations in systems that are going to be running P3 would be a nightmare to try and emulate. I applaud the fact that you are doing your best to release P3 as error free as possible but don't kill yourselves over it. There are going to be many many problems that are going to have to be fixed after release and I think we all here are aware of that.

As for playing P2, I pretty much gave that up months ago. After the initial "Wow this looks cool" wore off I found the AI to predictable and easy to kill. That is why I'm so looking forward to P3. The new scenery, dynamic fronts and real aircraft flights vice random spawns will be nice but the new AI is what I'm looking forward to.

And finally, be glad people are clamoring for the release of P3. If they weren't it would mean they didn't care if it ever came out and then what would be the point of even doing it? The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.

Scott
 
As a relative newcomer I hesitate to comment, but at the same time the issue is simple for me.

:a1451:

I was never promised a release date for P3, I have not yet paid a nickel for it, and although I can hardly wait to see it, my lifestyle is not dependent on it so I will patiently wait.

I once developed ocean add-ons for CFS2 and knowing the time I spent just on that project makes me cringe when I think about the mammoth task P3 must represent. And yes, in spite of all efforts to make a bug-free version, some issues will arise once it's out in full use by the masses. But, you have to acknowledge and respect the developer's desire to identify and correct all the problems that they can possibly find before they release the final product. If it was my project, I wouldn't want to release it until I could achieve that, particularly if I was going to charge $$ for it.
 
I've been on a couple game dev teams and I think it's something like this:

you have 24 hours in a day and 7 days in a week

subtract, say, 6 or 7 hours per day to sleep

17.5 hours per day

subtract 8 hours per day, 5 days per week for work

9.5 hours per day M-F

subtract two hours per night of extra work to finish up for work

7.5 hours per day M-F

subtract meals, errands, family time, chore time, etc 4.5 hours per day

3 hours left of free time TOTAL

that leaves a MAXIMUM of 3 hours per day on the weekdays if you did NOTHING else. Of course people do other things than spend ALL their free time on one thing. So maybe you've got 90 minutes or 2 hours per day to work on a MASSIVE project. Perhaps you've got a few more hours on the weekends, but people with children or with family commitments don't have much more.

This is the cold reality of building a game as a hobby. Professionals and corporations have the luxury of spending 40 hours per week or more on it. The trade off, of course, is that they're not going to listen to players complain before the game comes out.

I got an email saying the team got my preorder; it's sitting in my mailbox. That's confirmation enough for me, they haven't let me down before.

Whenever someone would ask me "when is the next version coming out??" I'd give them basically this answer. It's not rocket science but it is useful to point out in numbers how hard it can be.

Sims are just one part of life, not the other way around.
 
ftgc said:
Pol

If a release that has no issues is what your waiting for, just shoot yourself now.:icon_lol: I'd be willing to bet that after significant numbers of people (I would say hours but it's not like people are going to be able to go to the local Best Buy and pick it up off the shelf) get P3 in hand, you'll have ten pages of post identifying problems with P3.

Scott
Click to expand...

OK let me rephrase that to make it clearer:
When the issues are at a point WE are happy with when playing we will be ready. Give us some credit we have done this before and we know there are issues-a-plenty in PC land. Last time patching quickly also killed us.

So we will remove all issues we possibly can - to make it easier for you and others who may not be PC savvy.
Patching stuff that is already out is tougher work for us and more frustrating for players.

If it came out full of bugs even a small team could find you reckon people will be really happy? I am not so sure everyone would so understanding - call it a hunch..

ftgc said:
"As for playing P2, I pretty much gave that up months ago. After the initial "Wow this looks cool" wore off I found the AI to predictable and easy to kill. "
... don't kill yourself over it
Click to expand...

Exactly. P3 isn't. And why? Because we test until we are happy to play it. Writing new AI for example is not a trivial thing. Just one area that needs testing a lot.

..and ask to not killing ourselves that already happened some time back several times - the last time we gave a release date before it was done I seem to remember vividly.
 
ftgc said:
There are going to be many many problems that are going to have to be fixed after release and I think we all here are aware of that.

Scott
Click to expand...

I'm gonna' bet you a nice cold beer that you're dead wrong about that.:ernae:
 
I do understand the position of the developers,I really do, they want to release Phase 3 as clean of problems as is possible.
The trouble is that when you go to Main Page of the OVER Flanders Fields site you see things like.... PHASE 3 IS COMING VERY SOON and BETA GOLD VERSION HAS BEEN BUILT AND GOING THROUGH FINAL TESTING. The trouble with reading these headlines is that they seem to be creating false expectations. I would think that it would be better to just say that the software is being tested and leave it at that. The 'Phase 3 is coming very soon has been on the page for quite a long time now. I have enjoyed, as no doubt everyone else has the preview videos by Polovski and Sabrerattler,they are brilliant, but they also create the impression that is probably an unrealistic one. Of one thing I am very sure and that is Phase 3 will be worth the wait however much longer that will be.
 
Time & time again, I have bought games which have been released too soon, as the developers wanted the money to start rolling in, only to be frustrated with bugs & faults which should have been addressed before release, & ended up uninstalling them & giving them up as a bad lot.

Being realistic, theres so many types of hardware out in the world of Pc's that theres bound to be a few bugs with it when its released, - (as an example, you only have to look at microsoft to realise how bad things could be if it was just released without PROPER testing!) But with all this dedication & effort that the OFF team have put in, i'm sure that any bugs in it will not be too serious.

Remember, the OFF team arent in this for the money, they're doing it to make the sim as accurate & as smooth as possible, & are doing it in their limited precious spare time.

To the OFF team:- take as long as you need, I'm sure that when we finally get a copy of the OFF P3 Dvd in our hot sticky mitts, we'll ALL be so glad that you did!


IT WILL ROCK!!! :applause::applause::applause:
 
OK well with any beta you have to fix what you find. Whenyou get to Beta you may have a month to go, or 10 months if it takes that long to fix/redesign something, reprogram etc.

Believe me the people who want this to finish soonest are US!


"BETA GOLD VERSION HAS BEEN BUILT AND GOING THROUGH FINAL TESTING. "
was added a week or so ago!

It's the truth.

What do you want me to say?

If I add no news that's bad, if I add news that's bad.
 
15 GB! I guess it's as well I'll have to get a new PC to play it, since my Win98 beast has a 20GB hard drive. :d

It makes the waiting easier to be unable to PLAY the disk when it eventually arrives.
 
LMAO!!:icon_lol:

Heureux....thanks for a much needed injection of humour!!

Cheers,

Parky
 
I develop software and can tell you that testing and debugging is the longest, most difficult part. There is one aspect they haven't mentioned is besides testing what you fixed, you still need to test everything else tomake sure your recent fix didn't bugger up something else. We've been on the receiving end of developers, teams, etc. who were lax in communicating as has been mentioned earlier. The lack of news or updates was usually followed up by a final announcement that the project has been abandoned or just died a slow death. Oleg did a tremendous job early on keeping everyone informed of progress. There was usually an update every week. The team is doing exactly the right thing. They are keeping us informed so we know activity is still going and progress is being made. The recent spate of combat reports and screens have been extremely invigorating as well as the videos. They are in a more precarious position now, they're trying to balance keeping those happy who hunger for more news and release predictions, while turning out the best product possible, especially since they are asking recompense this time. Anyone who cares about others, take pride in their work or wants to deliver a fair value for a person's dollar would understand part of the reason they're testing so extensively. It's correct that they won't find evey bug, but certainly they feel obligated to take care of all those they find vice passing them on and fixing them in a patch later ( a practice which we've all decried of other developers). I, like many others have been in this since the first release and I am not the least bored by P2. Yes, the AI is predictable but the rest is still exhillerating, the scenery, the planes, the sounds, the opportunity to fly a WWI crate. So, for my part, keep the news, reports and videos coming. Use your best judgement when to release,. It's your baby not mine. I haven't paid for anything and am in a poor position to make any demands on the dev. team, except to keep up their usual good work and continue to sacrifice their free time not only for our benefit but for their creation as well. Meanwhile, I will continue to play P2 and be amazed by what's already been done.

Please bear in mind what sets these guys apart from other developers.
Aside from our donations, they don't have any financial backing.
They are doing this on their own time; a lot of their own time.
They all, I believe, have families and other pastimes that have to share their attention with OFF.
This is the main focus of their work. they don't have a government project or other development work to support them and distract them.
This project is born out of their love for WWI aviation and playing the most realistic sim possible. Thereore, I believe that their first priority (as it should be) is pleasing themselves.
They are a conglomeration of developers spread all oever the globe and bringing this all together without benefit of a nice computer lab in a nice office in a central location.

Perhaps, they're showing us the way of the future. They've been operating in the above manner and motivation for the past three years at least and it's because of that that most of us are content (not easily though) to wait til P3 is judged ready for release by them, we don't gripe about the bugs but point them out for edification, give praise for their work where it's due and overall give them the thanks and respect they deserve for what they've GIVEN us and allowed us to do.
:ernae:
 
I too, have developed commercial product for a Microsoft hobby software title (Train Simulator), in fact I am still "in business", though new product development is currently suspended.

I have experential knowledge of where the OFF developers are coming from and what they are going through. Plus, the projects I created and readied for release are no where NEAR the scope of what has already been accomplished in OFF Ph 2. My Lord I can't imagine the tedious work that it took to get Ph 2 out the door in as good a shape as it is in.

They speak not in jest when they say they want to be FINISHED with it as bad as you want it to be finished (probably more so). It is NOT fun and games to develop hobby software. You get sooo weary running the same software over and over again to chase bugs down, figure out a fix, then retest to see if your fix broke something else. It can absolutely RUIN a hobby for you.

My hat is off to the OFF crew. I'm confident they are doing the best that practicality allows.

Now, based on my experience in commercial hobby software development, I can tell you when OFF Ph 3 will be released and the following prognostication will be 100% accurate:

It will be released when it is ready to be released.

Pure and simple. :costumes:

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have just been informed that an inbound flight of enemy aircraft has been spotted and I'm to scramble NOW...

CONTACT!!

Andre Ming
The Old Simmer
 
Thanks

To the OFF team and your families, thanks again. I hope any negative aspects on this thread have not tarnished your enthusiasm for this sim. As a WW1 enthusiast I am greatful for Phase 2 which I have and still enjoy. We can always try for one more victory on our highest score. I am happy to wait for when you are happy to release phase3 .

I hope after you do release Phase3 that it lights a spark so that someone else releases another WW1 sim which you ( the OFF team ) can sit back and enjoy from the outside.

Please accept a genuine thankyou from a fellow WW1 enthusiast.

Speedski.
 
I also agree with Speedski, as well as with cpirrman and oldsimmer.

Keep up the good work and we all look forward to enjoying it when you are through.
 
Damnit Pol I told you that releasing so many preview movies would get your hands bitten OFF :costumes:.
 
Some can't wait to get shot

Why are some people so impatient? Reminds me of young rookies on the way to the front; can't wait to get shot. Are you seriously telling me, P2 is no challenge for you nomore? Can you survive 17 hours? Or even more, without cheating? Plane markings and radar switched off? No? So, why don't you exercise a bit, practise your shooting skills etc. Phase 3 will certainly be a lot harder to survive.

I bought "STALKER-CLEAR SKY" right when it came out. It got stuck very soon, and meanwhile, I had to patch it twice to make it work. After first patch, all I had achieved, was lost; had to start again. Does anybody need that? Not me, certainly not.

Experiencing Ph2, I know they'll do a good job. Carry on, Pol & all the wingmen. And if you PM me a post adress, I'll send you some of my great pre-Christmas cakes "Berliner Mandelbrot" (Berliner almond bread), very spicy, and nice to have next to the screen, with a good coffee or tea; may put the smiles back on your programmer-tan faces ! Cheers; Olham
 
"Why are some people so impatient?"

It's not uncommon in the gaming realm. It's a phenomonon that I've noticed since my involvement with sims and sim forums from back in the year 1994. Seems that the majority of computer gamers have an insatiable appetite for the "latest and greatest"... some getting downright nasty about it when delays are experienced.

Having been the target of such in the past, I can tell you it sure takes the personal pleasure/reward out of developing a product for enthusiasts. :banghead:

Ah, but Ph 3 is going to bring in mucho loot, right?

To that I say: :bs:

Forget "monetary gain" as the reward. The OFF project is a labor of love, pure and simple. Figure it out: The masses will NOT be easily persuaded to purchase a sim...

1. That depends on an aging core program to find/purchase/install. (i.e. CFS3)
2. Will likely need to patch the core sim program and insure it is working nicely.
3. Then purchase an additional add-on that exceeds the price of the core sim by several dollars.
4. Address any issues that arise after release of OFF Ph 3.

No, OFF is aimed at the true WW1 enthusiast, a very small "niche market" to be sure. :wavey:

Lastly, when the release is made and the monetary remuneration does start to come in, said funds will have to be shared among several OFF team members, further diluting its impact.

They are not going to get rich off this. IMHO, they started this immense project because of passion for the theme, and now they have a tiger by the tail that they would dearly love to let go of. At the least, they are hoping funds generated will cover the sizable cost as well as time/energy needed to maintain this superb website/forums, etc. (Where else can you hear ACTUAL RECORDED INTERVIEWS of WW1 pilots???) If they REALLY have the need to make extra money, they would likely have gotten more for their hour of labor by being a "Greeter" at Wal-Mart.

To the OFF team:

Be encouraged! You are MUCH closer to release than when you started this huge project! Hang in there and do the best you can with it. We're rootin' fer 'ya! :applause::jump::applause:

Andre Ming
The Old Simmer
 
Hi All, I know I started this thread, I know I probably sound impatient. Not the only one I would imagine. If the finished product is anything like the videos (by Polovski and Sabrerattler) the screenshots and the combat reports from the testers, then the finished result will have been worth the wait. I will stand up and congratulate all concerned, that is if you can tear me away from OFF Phase 3.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top