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Re: Auto industry Stimulus

For the US government to forsake their manufacturing base in this emergency is absurd. Does anyone think the Japanese Government would let Toyota or Honda go under? Their government would not loan the money... they would shovel money at them as fast as they could to keep that industry alive.



Dick

The core difference between GM/Chrysler and Japanes automakers is that the Japanese companies aren't in danger of bankruptcy because they applied some common sense to business decisions.

Honda and Toyota had the foresight 20 years ago to realize that oil prices weren't going to be low forever, and produced extremely reliable small and fuel-efficient cars that were miles ahead of the offerings that GM and Ford were producing in response.

Even when SUV's got really popular, Toyota was able to produce a line of very good large vehicles, while still putting resources into small cars and developing things like the Prius, whereas American automakers basically stopped developing anything smaller than an Explorer or Tahoe.

Ford seems to be the only US automaker to have followed what Toyota and Honda did, since they have a fleet of very good small cars in Europe that are starting to show up in the US, whereas GM is just now producing cars competitive with the Japanese and Chrylser has somehow managed to design small cars no one seems to want.
 
Packard was merged with Studebaker.

Studebaker never went under... diversified and fianlly bought out by McGraw-Edison in 1979.

Kaiser... bought out. Jeep is still an active brand of Chrysler

Nash... bought out by AMC, AMC bought out by Chrysler.

Those were the bailouts. But again, the financial industry is not strong enough to loan money to other car corporations the cash to buy out Chrysler or GM... as they did in the past.

The healthiness out the autoworker occupation was not the point. The point is that you claimed autoworkers live long lifespans collecting money from their former employers "get a pension for 30+ years" . That is not true. Here is the truth: most autoworkers work until theey are physically unable to continue. They make good money, and contribute to the workforce as long as they can. But yes, exposure to toxins and restrictive work environments take their toll. This is true of Toyota as well as Chrysler.
 
Honda and Toyota had the foresight 20 years ago to realize that oil prices weren't going to be low forever, and produced extremely reliable small and fuel-efficient cars that were miles ahead of the offerings that GM and Ford were producing in response.

Foresight? Haven't the Japanese always built small cars? They never made anything big until the SUV's and large pickups became vouge. Seems to me that the American auto makers were building what people here wanted at the time. The Jananese always had the fuel saving small cars so when the fuel prices shot through the roof they look like genuises. In retrospect a good business plan but not foresight.
 
Foresight? Haven't the Japanese always built small cars? They never made anything big until the SUV's and large pickups became vouge. Seems to me that the American auto makers were building what people here wanted at the time. The Jananese always had the fuel saving small cars so when the fuel prices shot through the roof they look like genuises. In retrospect a good business plan but not foresight.

The Japanese have ALWAYS made small cars! Their average speed limit is only 35 mph! and their roads are extremely crowded, and they rarely go very far. When long distance travel is required, the average person takes the train, out of necessity, NOT choice.

The same goes for most of Europe. Only in America do we have large open expanses, and the freedom to drive them ANY TIME WE WANT! That's why the American people like our big cars and trucks. And we always had plenty of inexpensive gas, until govenrment overstepped it's bounds, getting in private business's business, and putting on outrageous taxes. (The EXACT reason most other country's gas prices are so high!) The actual price of a gallon of gas, BEFORE taxes, is almost identical, around the world. Nowadays, it's actually more expensive here in the USA, because of environmental regulations, and government interference, rather than the people who get the blame, "Big Oil." The reason we import so much is because government has made it impossible, or to expensive, to get our own.

some of you have mentioned some American branded vehicles made for other countries. Good vehicles, nearly all. But we can't bring them here, because of government environmental regulations. Our EPA has become one of the biggest causes of high prices of all types of energy production and use. We have the most stringent rules in the world, and the cleanest environment, yet everyone says "WE" have to "conserve more, and clean up more." "WE" are no longer the problem! Jealousy is.

The American auto industry has always made the cars the American public wants. Those that didn't, went by the wayside. When a particular design/model/feature didn't sell, it was dropped, fast. When something sold, it was expanded. During the "contrived" fuel shortage of the '70s, the American manufacturers downsized quickly. Buyers scooped up the junk they put out. (I have worked for Ford from 1967 thru 2002, so was there for most of the changes.) Lee Iacoca made his mark during the '70s, selling this downsized junk. Remember the Pinto, and the Mustang II? The Maverick? Iacoca's. Problems and all. They are why he was fired from Ford. (Yes, some are going to say the original Mustang was his idea. Nop it wasn't. It was finalized before he came aboard. It was his idea to make so many options available, and the sales media blitzes were his. He was a salesman, avery good one. But a terrible designer.)

When he (Iacoca) went to Chrysler, they were only building big cars. They hadn't downsized when Ford and GM did. Tht's why they were going broke. When he came along, he came up with the "K" car lines. Very successful, very CHEAP. Cheap as in "JUNK!" But they sold, very well. It wasn't until they were a few years old, just like the Pinto and the Mustang II, that they started falling apart. These cars were all basically throw away cars. It cost more to fix them, than they were worth. And they needed constant maintainance. After saving Chrysler, they nearly killed it again. Just as Ford's versions did it, and GM's little cars did it. When gas became plentiful, Americans wanted their big cars back. But, government, and the new EPA had already gotten it's tenticles into the regulations, and the prices of new vehicles went thru the roof. It continues today. 15% of the price of a new American auto is to pay labor to build it. 45% is to cover EPA regulations, 25% is the actual cost of parts and materials. What's left over is profit, split between the dealer and the manufacturer. (These numbers are NOT exact, but are close.)

I could go on, and on, and on, but....:argue:
 
"If you have an army.. And you have your foot soldiers, and your commanders, and then your general, would you pay your general the lowest amount, $20.00 an hour, and your foot soldiers $75.00 an hour?"
Damn right Bill!!!!

"The Japanese have ALWAYS made small cars! Their average speed limit is only 35 mph! and their roads are extremely crowded, and they rarely go very far. When long distance travel is required, the average person takes the train, out of necessity, NOT choice. The same goes for most of Europe."
Now that really borders on the 'ill-informed'!
Mercedes Benz, BMW, Audi, Ford and GM Germany/UK, Rover, Jaguar, Lambohrgini, Ferrari etc were never really 'Economy' car manufactirers in Europe.
The same applies to Japan, Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura and Nissan have all built and successfully marketed medium to large cars, including some very high performance models.
There is a vast difference between building inefficient and oversized vehicles because 'bigger is better' and building something with a smaller footprint and fuel and energy efficient vehicle which will do everything better than the machines which have ground the American industry down.
I know it is possible to criss-cross America and never (in my experience) get off the amazing 'Interstate' highway system, despite the ridiculously low speed restrictions.
It is not something I would enjoy in a small 'economy' import, equally, I would never consider a trip in a 427 cube powered 'large' domestic vehicle.
However, a BMW or a Lexus (random examples) would be faster, more economical and more comfortable .......... :kilroy:

"During the "contrived" fuel shortage of the '70s, the American manufacturers downsized quickly."
Contrived fuel shortage???
Rubbish, EVERY country was hit by a genuine shortage of Petro-Chemical products and most devised different strategies to overcome the problems.


 
It would make more sense to give that 19 billion to all the people over 19 in the US. Giving it to the industrys is not going to help the economy . Putting it in the hands of the people will. Sure ..... they are going to get tattoos and breast implants. It's going to go into the economy. Just spending it will get things going again.
Please lemme know if I'm crazy. Maybe I need to adjust my thinking. I may be getting too old.
( Joe steps down from his soap box and walks off.)
 
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