Released! Spitfire Mk IXc for Microsoft Flight Simulator

The RAF (Dutch) 322 Squadron repaint is up:
mk265-4.png


Download: https://flightsim.to/file/10519/supermarine-spitfire-mk-ix-raf-dutch-322-squadron-3w-d-s-n-mk265
 
Thanks zsoltquack. What a beauty it is !!

That's what the message is all about. Get outthere, it's total freedom being up there in the wonderful skies of Earth
and going to see the planet we live on, seeing the vastness of the planet we live on. It's fantastic!
Steve Brooks,
Spitfire Pilot


Thanks a million Microsoft/Asobo (and FlyingIron Simulations) for realising just that for us too, be it strictly virtual.
 
Question for the community - am I mistaken, or is the Spit's ground handling on takeoff roll a bit off in the way that all MSFS ground handling seems to be off? I've been having a huge amount of trouble with it, of a kind that I've never had with Spits in other sims (even the very powerful late vairants by RealAir), nor with other high performance aircraft like the Warbirdsim and A2A P-51s. With the Flying Iron Mk IX, I seem to be getting a sudden leftward lurch no matter how much or how slowly I let in the throttle. It reminds me of the handling problems with the Carenado WACO, which felt like a digital behavior (i.e. "lurch left at this speed no matter what the power and speed.")

All this could, of course, be just a failure of technique. But I thought I'd ask.

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
 
Hi Alan,

Alan_A said:
Question for the community - am I mistaken, or is the Spit's ground handling on takeoff roll a bit off in the way that all MSFS ground handling seems to be off? I've been having a huge amount of trouble with it, of a kind that I've never had with Spits in other sims (even the very powerful late vairants by RealAir), nor with other high performance aircraft like the Warbirdsim and A2A P-51s. With the Flying Iron Mk IX, I seem to be getting a sudden leftward lurch no matter how much or how slowly I let in the throttle. It reminds me of the handling problems with the Carenado WACO, which felt like a digital behavior (i.e. "lurch left at this speed no matter what the power and speed.")
Click to expand...

Can confirm this, seems to be more noticeable with version 1.01. Even with wind Straid wind on the nose, and my feet on the rudders to counter, the right wing picks up at speeds, which i've to counter with semi-strong aileron movements.

Seems efforts to make the flight model more realistic are countered by some standard (wrong) MSFS effects on rudder and aileron movements.

Myself have made a mix from the V1.0 and V1.01 airfiles so i'm able to take-off in this bird.

I'm used to flying almost every A2A warbird in FSX/P3D and also realair Spitfire, like you Alan.

Marcel

PS
The effect Alan is talking about, just take a long runway:
- Set throttle to -2 boots
- Let the speed slowly build up
- Counter with rudder
- At around 60-70 kts, this is a sudden yaw to the left... (which can not be controlled by rudder or aileron movement)
 
Weird, I have not experienced that at all, including testing it out just as Marcel has outlined. Make sure you have the flight model option in MSFS set to Modern, as it should be. I have also not experienced any problems with the Carenado WACO on takeoff ever since its update a while back.

With regard to the FlyingIron Spitfire, I just have to make sure to keep some right aileron in during the takeoff roll, just like is required flying the real thing, otherwise the right wing will want to rise up. I don't get any sudden yaw effect on takeoff, it just seems to increase a bit over time.

On paved runway, I power up to 1,800 RPM with the brakes held and stick back and to the right, and then release the brakes and smoothly but quickly apply power, with the stick still held back and to the right, up to either +6 or +8 Boost (within the span of time of counting about three seconds). Just as full power is applied I start releasing the back pressure on the stick, allowing the tail to rise a bit while keeping some right aileron in. That whole process is accurate to real-world operations. At about 90-100 MPH it is off and flying, never with any hassle at all. On grass runways, I keep the elevator neutral and just as the aircraft begins to roll I start introducing some down elevator to pick the tailwheel up off the ground as soon as possible, though you have to be careful (one Spitfire touched its propeller blades to the ground when doing this at Duxford a couple years ago).
 
My experience with this ship started out (and still is, to some extent) very similar to what Alan_A is describing. That is, until I started setting the rudder trim to almost max right before starting the take off run (thanks John T..!) This tip is in the POH, but I disregarded it, just like I did in every fighter in FS9, FSX, and P3D, because it wasn’t necessary in those sims. It is here, for this plane anyway! Like Alan_A, I would describe the left swerve as a “sudden lurch” to the left, but I think that’s because I’m not ready for it. With 80% right rudder trim set, this effect is very much reduced, and all I have to worry about now is the right wing coming up. As soon as I get the hang of how much right aileron to input during the take off run, I think I will have take off figured out, more or less. Still working on the landing roll out. Running out of wing tips… I think I’ll switch to the square wingtip version, on the theory that more roll angle is required before the end of the wing scrapes the runway, lolol.
 
Thanks, guys - definitely some new techniques, or at least refinements to try. I'd dialed in about six degrees right rudder trim on the last couple of attempts, but it sounds like I might need to go further. Also, have been throttling up during the roll - I'll try holding brakes to 1800 RPM and see if that makes a difference. Thought I was holding back right stick but maybe it's not over hard enough.

Definitely using the modern flight model - have never switched it, and I double-checked when I was first trying to deal with the WACO, which I can keep straight on takeoff but only by pretending it's a Lysander - hold the tailwheel on the whole time and let it fly off in three-point attitude, which is not normal WACO technique.

I still can't help thinking that there are some issues here related to ground friction. I still get a wandering nosewheel in tricycle-gear airplanes. And I gather there are some challenges with tailwheel modeling - there was some discussion about tailwheel steering angle with the WACO, and the Flying Iron manual talks about how they had to mod the tailwheel since the sim won't support true free castoring. I get that it's about torque management but that left departure still seems sudden and a bit arbitrary to me.

But as soon as I get time, I'll go experiment and bend some Spitfires (sigh) and report back...
 
Hi John,

Bomber_12th said:
Weird, I have not experienced that at all, including testing it out just as Marcel has outlined. Make sure you have the flight model option in MSFS set to Modern, as it should be. I have also not experienced any problems with the Carenado WACO on takeoff ever since its update a while back.
With regard to the FlyingIron Spitfire, I just have to make sure to keep some right aileron in during the takeoff roll, just like is required flying the real thing, otherwise the right wing will want to rise up. I don't get any sudden yaw effect on takeoff, it just seems to increase a bit over time.
Click to expand...

Yes i've a flightmodel in modern (never went too legacy). The "some right aileron" is in my case a lot. It's the sudden surge at 60-70 mph which gets me into trouble.
Feels not very realistic at my side that you have a (very) strong increase at this speed, while before the effect is minor and even after let say 110 mph the effect also minor.

Fear i have to do some more flying instead of painting. :pirate:

Marcel
 
Yes, I'm running the updated version.

With regard to doing more flying than painting, I hope not! I have been really enjoying your repaint of MK265 and I hope you release more.
 
Here are a couple quick, raw videos I have recorded of both takeoff and landing. This is with the updated version (1.0.1) and follows my described methods for takeoff and landing, which are accurate to real-world Mk.IX Spitfire operations.

Takeoff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE1VdwnPjYI

- Elevator trim +1 (nose up)
- Rudder trim 75% right
- Brakes held, stick back and to the right
- Power up to 1,800 RPM
- Once power is stabilized, release brakes and power up to +6 Boost
- As the speed increases, start relaxing back pressure on the stick while maintaining right aileron input
- Let the tail rise about 6-inches off the ground and keep it there until it flies off on its own


Landing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsnIJiJABK8

- Flying the overhead at 500 ft with a midfield break to the downwind
- As the speed bleeds back to below 160 mph, the landing gear is selected down
- Flaps are lowered as I turn onto the base leg
- Once on the base leg the prop is set to full fine/high RPM
- Aiming for about 100 mph on final approach and 90 mph over the threshold


The experience in the sim isn't as choppy as these videos make it seem, though the performance flying around the area shown hasn't been very good ever since the latest Sim Update.
 
Hi John,

Thanks for the video's. Note landing is no problem on my side, only a bit bumpy. :very_drunk:

On the yaw-effect did some testing with the debug-mode on, seems the sim-value of "yaw speed" is the guilty part (at least on my system).
When the tailgear is slightly lifted the force is increased from 0 to 100% within a second. No way to counter that with rudder or aileron input.

So to cheat this i've only change one value back to the setting of version 1.0.0 to get a normal take-off with some rudder and aileron input.

p_factor_on_yaw = 1.00 // 2.1

Now off to repainting again :pirate:

Marcel
 
mgr said:
On the yaw-effect did some testing with the debug-mode on, seems the sim-value of "yaw speed" is the guilty part (at least on my system).
When the tailgear is slightly lifted the force is increased from 0 to 100% within a second. No way to counter that with rudder or aileron input.
Click to expand...

I wonder if that's related to the all-or-nothing rudder behavior we've been seeing throughout the sim - or if yaw speed is a root cause of that rudder behavior. Definitely similar to what I've been seeing in the Waco even after it was updated.

Will explore that as soon as I get a chance.
 
Bomber_12th said:
...

- Elevator trim +1 (nose up)
- Rudder trim 75% right
- Brakes held, stick back and to the right
- Power up to 1,800 RPM
- Once power is stabilized, release brakes and power up to +6 Boost
- As the speed increases, start relaxing back pressure on the stick while maintaining right aileron input
- Let the tail rise about 6-inches off the ground and keep it there until it flies off on its own

...
Click to expand...

That did it. I had rudder trim set, and I had the stick held to the right, but I didn't have elevator trim set, nor did I have the stick back during the take off roll. Once you get all the pieces in place, she flies off the ground with no fuss whatsoever. That's very impressive. Still need a couple more circuits around the field to get the landings nailed down, but they're getting better.
 
Bomber_12th said:
Takeoff:
- Elevator trim +1 (nose up)
- Rudder trim 75% right
- Brakes held, stick back and to the right
- Power up to 1,800 RPM
- Once power is stabilized, release brakes and power up to +6 Boost
- As the speed increases, start relaxing back pressure on the stick while maintaining right aileron input
- Let the tail rise about 6-inches off the ground and keep it there until it flies off on its own
Click to expand...

Thanks, worked for me too. Holding brakes helped, and I don't think I'd been holding the stick far enough back. Also - the checklist in the manual calls for nose-down trim, which seemed odd but I'd been trying it. +1 works better.

All that said... the rudder authority does increase suddenly and sharply midway through the roll, and not in an organic way. I'll wonder if that's related to Marcel's findings about yaw speed. Still curious to see how that applies to the Waco as well.
 
Alan_A said:
Also - the checklist in the manual calls for nose-down trim, which seemed odd but I'd been trying it. +1 works better.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's one of the unfortunate aspects (like the inverted carb cutout) where they seem to have confused some aspects of the Mk.1 Spitfire with that of the (very different) Mk.IX Spitfire. The -1 Nose Down elevator trim setting is accurate to a Mk.1 Spitfire, while a +1 Nose Up trim setting is accurate to a Mk.IX Spitfire. At least when setting the elevator trim to +1 Nose Up in the FlyingIron Spitfire Mk.IX, matching real-world, it works properly well. It's too bad that the majority of users will never look beyond the included product checklist, and as a result will never be properly setting-up the aircraft in the sim as you would in real life.
 
To tease John, 2 previews of my next repaint, some decals and ALL the stencils have to be done.

tb885-1.png

tb885-2.png


Marcel
 
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