LordAkshay798
Charter Member
To whom should I report a website that pirates FSX addons? Should I just PM the admins and let them take care of it?
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Reporting a Piracy Website
- Thread starter LordAkshay798
- Start date
Henry
Retired SOH Administrator
first i would cntact the originalauthors it would not hurt to contactthe admins here we can do a little to fix it appreciate the question
H:ernae:
LordAkshay798
Charter Member
Thanks for the reply sir. I'll have to start contacting a LOT of developers (this website is where practically all the pirated FSX stuff comes from)! Ill still PM you the links, if you want, so you can help ease the process.
Henry
Retired SOH Administrator
LordAkshay798
Charter Member
Sorry to dig this back up, but have you guys made any progress in shutting down those websites/links ?
warchild
Charter Member
There's truly very little that SOh can do as a forum. Like you, if any of us were to call up these server admins demanding that they close down the bad guys, they'd only laugh. The only people that have any real power to close them down are the copyright holders themselves.
Pam
Pam
CodyValkyrie
Charter Member 2016
And even then it is a crapshoot.
I've been there in the backs stage helping shut down a few places, but new ones pop up and some are even protected by their host who claim they do not hold the actual files on there servers, therefor they are not responsible.
BULLOCKS!
Skyhawk_310R
Charter Member
In terms of shutting down a pirate website, there are only three types of people who can do it.
First, the people who sponsor the site -- and I think we all agree that's about as close to zero chance as there is.
Two, the Internet Service Provider or server host, and this is the most likely group as if you contact them directly with the proof and the ISP validates the issue that their ISP is being used to conduct piracy, they may well shut the site down by ending ISP support (or server support) to the website owner. In truth, all ISP's and server hosts require that someone register the domain name with a point of contact. So, if the ISP cares about its reputation, they will shut the site down.
Three, law enforcement may obtain a court order and confiscate the servers and shut the whole shabang down. This is only going to happen if the server is hosted in a nation that cares about enforcing laws against piracy.
The problem increasingly is that these pirate websites are being run on servers using ISP's from nations that frankly don't care and the ISP's therefore don't care either! So, this removes options two and three and since that is the case, option one was DOA fron the start.
First, the people who sponsor the site -- and I think we all agree that's about as close to zero chance as there is.
Two, the Internet Service Provider or server host, and this is the most likely group as if you contact them directly with the proof and the ISP validates the issue that their ISP is being used to conduct piracy, they may well shut the site down by ending ISP support (or server support) to the website owner. In truth, all ISP's and server hosts require that someone register the domain name with a point of contact. So, if the ISP cares about its reputation, they will shut the site down.
Three, law enforcement may obtain a court order and confiscate the servers and shut the whole shabang down. This is only going to happen if the server is hosted in a nation that cares about enforcing laws against piracy.
The problem increasingly is that these pirate websites are being run on servers using ISP's from nations that frankly don't care and the ISP's therefore don't care either! So, this removes options two and three and since that is the case, option one was DOA fron the start.
CodyValkyrie
Charter Member 2016
Not to dig this up again, but I wanted to make a few comments.
Interestingly enough, often a "whois" will reveal some contact details. I did this in the past to a notoriously known website and called the guy directly on his home phone. He was TICKED at me, and then proceeded to throw his son under the bus about it before admitting it was himself. We even had pictures of the guy, his address, etc. What was most furious about it was the guy is a vet. HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER! He finally hid his contact information, but he had to pay to do it.
Most of these guys don't really care, but I have seen a few threats of legal action freak some kids out in the past....
Even in the U.S. we struggle with this. I won't name the host, however a well known provider told me and several of my mates in so many words to shove it. They shut off the service of the the person in question temporarily while they investigated, but since the files themselves were not directly hosted on their site (just the torrents), they refused to take action. This left us with one option, a class action lawsuit against the host, which never came to fruition for obvious reasons. The ISP unfortunately just didn't particularly care.
In one particular case however, the pirate(s) in question were charging to access their illegal database of stolen software. We managed to wrangle them through PayPal and have their account locked out. I think there were some further repercussions from this. Sadly said website still operates, and they offer their services by sending the owner snail mail with a check.
In the last case we went made numerous calls to various agencies and law enforcement circles. We received zero result. It is very hard to enforce these types of things when literally MILLIONS are doing them. The people assigned to such cases are already swamped and focus their investigations on larger fish.
Interestingly enough, often a "whois" will reveal some contact details. I did this in the past to a notoriously known website and called the guy directly on his home phone. He was TICKED at me, and then proceeded to throw his son under the bus about it before admitting it was himself. We even had pictures of the guy, his address, etc. What was most furious about it was the guy is a vet. HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER! He finally hid his contact information, but he had to pay to do it.
Most of these guys don't really care, but I have seen a few threats of legal action freak some kids out in the past....
Even in the U.S. we struggle with this. I won't name the host, however a well known provider told me and several of my mates in so many words to shove it. They shut off the service of the the person in question temporarily while they investigated, but since the files themselves were not directly hosted on their site (just the torrents), they refused to take action. This left us with one option, a class action lawsuit against the host, which never came to fruition for obvious reasons. The ISP unfortunately just didn't particularly care.
In one particular case however, the pirate(s) in question were charging to access their illegal database of stolen software. We managed to wrangle them through PayPal and have their account locked out. I think there were some further repercussions from this. Sadly said website still operates, and they offer their services by sending the owner snail mail with a check.
In the last case we went made numerous calls to various agencies and law enforcement circles. We received zero result. It is very hard to enforce these types of things when literally MILLIONS are doing them. The people assigned to such cases are already swamped and focus their investigations on larger fish.
Spikehughes
Charter Member
jeese
Look, no one wants to loose a percentage of their income to piracy.
I guess this is precisely why some developers have such draconian install requirements.?
I understand they want to protect their hard work, but it is a bit of a rock and a hard place. Some of the measures really dissuade me from wanting to purchase the latest scenery/aircraft/utility just because as a legal buyer you are forced to jump thru all the hoops of piracy prevention. I am thinking in particular of one developer whose models are just great, but who have a hard coded serial number to your machine so if you change up the hard drive, or migrate to a new logic board, or have a system crash - you have to email the developer again for a replacement serial number... no big deal, except this has happened to me more than twice for the same aircraft and is an extra step you are forced to go thru in order to reinstall the model. I guess for many people this is no big deal, but I like to tinker with my PC and upgrade/modify on a semi regular basis - so to me these sorts of issues all pile up the laboring process of re installation. And also a scenery developer whose copy protect some how has never resulted in a proper functioning DEMO of their airport scenery on my machine. (I just gave up after several forum exchanges, because none of the recommendations worked - as well I have a real problem about having to disable my built in virus protection while on line in order to install their product - I mean can't we have a process that allows an online download, then install off line!!
While I sympathize with Developers, there has to be a middle ground to quasi protect their work and to prevent blatant piracy. One in which the legitimate purchaser is not frustratingly inconvenienced. Lets face it I bet a good percentage of all those pirated downloads - the user would never have paid for the product in the first instance - it just grates that they are morally corrupt enough to want to bother.
Look, no one wants to loose a percentage of their income to piracy.
I guess this is precisely why some developers have such draconian install requirements.?
I understand they want to protect their hard work, but it is a bit of a rock and a hard place. Some of the measures really dissuade me from wanting to purchase the latest scenery/aircraft/utility just because as a legal buyer you are forced to jump thru all the hoops of piracy prevention. I am thinking in particular of one developer whose models are just great, but who have a hard coded serial number to your machine so if you change up the hard drive, or migrate to a new logic board, or have a system crash - you have to email the developer again for a replacement serial number... no big deal, except this has happened to me more than twice for the same aircraft and is an extra step you are forced to go thru in order to reinstall the model. I guess for many people this is no big deal, but I like to tinker with my PC and upgrade/modify on a semi regular basis - so to me these sorts of issues all pile up the laboring process of re installation. And also a scenery developer whose copy protect some how has never resulted in a proper functioning DEMO of their airport scenery on my machine. (I just gave up after several forum exchanges, because none of the recommendations worked - as well I have a real problem about having to disable my built in virus protection while on line in order to install their product - I mean can't we have a process that allows an online download, then install off line!!
While I sympathize with Developers, there has to be a middle ground to quasi protect their work and to prevent blatant piracy. One in which the legitimate purchaser is not frustratingly inconvenienced. Lets face it I bet a good percentage of all those pirated downloads - the user would never have paid for the product in the first instance - it just grates that they are morally corrupt enough to want to bother.
Francois
FS Veteran
In my book there are only two GOOD anti-piracy measures:
1. the product ONLY works with Internet access, dynamically enforced checking
or
2. provide great products with excellent support and personal attention where necessary
All else ranges from PITA to 'nice-to-have' but does little to stop products from being stolen.
1. the product ONLY works with Internet access, dynamically enforced checking
or
2. provide great products with excellent support and personal attention where necessary
All else ranges from PITA to 'nice-to-have' but does little to stop products from being stolen.
Roger
Senior Administrator
Spike,
I think you have to be a one-man-band to really appreciate the sense of blatant theft these guys feel. The extremely high level intellectual property resident in any good FsX pay model should be sacrosanct but there are parasites out there who think everyone owes them a living so piracy is fine then.
If their security measures are too difficult for the average Joe to master, then sales will fall and complaints will increase. Any business would be foolish to ignore these complaints. So if your product is very complex to install then you'd better be prepared to man the support lines, phones and forums 24/7!
I think you have to be a one-man-band to really appreciate the sense of blatant theft these guys feel. The extremely high level intellectual property resident in any good FsX pay model should be sacrosanct but there are parasites out there who think everyone owes them a living so piracy is fine then.
If their security measures are too difficult for the average Joe to master, then sales will fall and complaints will increase. Any business would be foolish to ignore these complaints. So if your product is very complex to install then you'd better be prepared to man the support lines, phones and forums 24/7!
Henry
Retired SOH Administrator
with total proofabout antyhingthe bestwe could do isbring the person or persons out in the openand ban them from herenot thats a big deal
FhhhhhhhhhH
CodyValkyrie
Charter Member 2016
It's like whack a mole. Nail one and another one pops up.
I wish there was an easy answer to this. Perhaps we should do a bit more social enforcing of morality, especially to our younger generations.
I wish there was an easy answer to this. Perhaps we should do a bit more social enforcing of morality, especially to our younger generations.
Francois
FS Veteran
Not sure the pirates are the 'young uns'...... the few that we managed to track were all disgruntled and anti-social, older individuals (one even an ex-forces guy in the US), or smart alecs in Russia and thereabouts just making tons of money with worthless 'subscriptions' leading to torrent lists.
I am still not too worried, really. When you deliver excellent products at a reasonable price and deliver support and community presence as well, the 'serious customers' will buy. The ones that download everything just as packrats and don't use the products, don't interest me.
I think there is one sort of software that DOES seduce even reasonably honest people to go to torrents sites after all, and these are the things that are way too expensive for the average hobbyist. There's not too much of those in the FS hobby.
The guys with the hardware products are obviously in heaven, not having to worry about these things at all !
I am still not too worried, really. When you deliver excellent products at a reasonable price and deliver support and community presence as well, the 'serious customers' will buy. The ones that download everything just as packrats and don't use the products, don't interest me.
I think there is one sort of software that DOES seduce even reasonably honest people to go to torrents sites after all, and these are the things that are way too expensive for the average hobbyist. There's not too much of those in the FS hobby.
The guys with the hardware products are obviously in heaven, not having to worry about these things at all !
LordAkshay798
Charter Member
Not sure the pirates are the 'young uns'...... the few that we managed to track were all disgruntled and anti-social, older individuals (one even an ex-forces guy in the US), or smart alecs in Russia and thereabouts just making tons of money with worthless 'subscriptions' leading to torrent lists.
I am still not too worried, really. When you deliver excellent products at a reasonable price and deliver support and community presence as well, the 'serious customers' will buy. The ones that download everything just as packrats and don't use the products, don't interest me.
I think there is one sort of software that DOES seduce even reasonably honest people to go to torrents sites after all, and these are the things that are way too expensive for the average hobbyist. There's not too much of those in the FS hobby.
The guys with the hardware products are obviously in heaven, not having to worry about these things at all !
I quite agree with the fact that not all of the pirates are teenagers but a lack of morality is the root of it all. If you can't afford or are too lazy/cheap to buy a product, do yourself some justice and don't buy it. Its a rather simple concept yet people simply don't understand how much they are hurting this hobby by pirating. Pirates don't see the endless, painstaking hours a developer puts into creating his/her project, which 99% of the time is a true labor of love and how the loss of revenue will force some developers to simply stop what they do.
A while back, I was on a sim library looking for new planes and came across a freeware jet that I have been dreaming of having. Downloaded it, opened the package to find that it was in fact not a freeware plane at all.....someone had uploaded a payware package (complete with the company's read me and EULA). I quickly erased the package from my system, went back to the site, wrote down the file name, uploader, the link to the download button....and forwarded it to the author of that payware package. They were able to have that package removed from the site. A few days later, the payware company sent me an e-mail with a download link to the package as a thank you (was not necessary, but was greatly appreciated!).
Reputable sites will remove uploaded payware packages.....they do not want the taint of piracy, they do not support piracy. But the sites that host payware packages or torrents for payware packages (or software, or movies, or music or whatever)...they aren't reputable and honest sites.....killing those sites requires far more money and influence than flight sim payware developers have. There is little that can be done to rid the internet of all the sources for pirated flight sim products.....wish there was as I would do it in a heart beat. I am not a developer (just a painter of modest skill, a tweaker, a modder of other people's development work), but I have TRIED to model sim aircraft.....and let me tell you, it's HARD work...and all I managed to produce was a few lumpy, bumpy, somewhat looked like the plane I was trying to model fuselages.
OBIO
Reputable sites will remove uploaded payware packages.....they do not want the taint of piracy, they do not support piracy. But the sites that host payware packages or torrents for payware packages (or software, or movies, or music or whatever)...they aren't reputable and honest sites.....killing those sites requires far more money and influence than flight sim payware developers have. There is little that can be done to rid the internet of all the sources for pirated flight sim products.....wish there was as I would do it in a heart beat. I am not a developer (just a painter of modest skill, a tweaker, a modder of other people's development work), but I have TRIED to model sim aircraft.....and let me tell you, it's HARD work...and all I managed to produce was a few lumpy, bumpy, somewhat looked like the plane I was trying to model fuselages.
OBIO