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Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.
'Roger Penske To Take-Over GM's Saturn Division?'
- Thread starter Panther_99FS
- Start date
Railrunner130
Charter Member
I'm hoping someone will get the idea to buy out Pontiac instead of letting it die out. Saturns never did anything for me.
cheezyflier
Charter Member
I cant believe that either. Really goofy. But then (sorry, personal viewpoints) I think gm cant think well at all these days. Too many bosses, no vision, etc.
Getting rid of Pontiac is like taking pistons out of your engine. There goes your power and capabilities, lowered massively.
I am hoping someone will purchase Pontiac and make good with it. It is definately worth it.
Saturn was an amazing step forward in vehicle design, manufacture, and sales. You purchased one for an exact price and there was no having to deal with squabbling. They went after the Honda style market, (teachers, family type residences that usually purchase a Honda style car, middle class).
The manufacturing processes of the original Saturn were born from Saab, DeLorean, and a few others in which they had smart assembly lines with lifting trolly's and things for helping the assembly line worker do his job easier.
The engines were amazing. I remember we had purchased the new Saturn at Chrysler and were looking at it (hood open, gathered around it). It had just come out and we had one, lol.. It was a very well engineered vehicle. Cool, wrapped glass, and things.
I saw a new fleet of Saturns at the shopping mall, inside on display. I walked up to one that had the hood open, thinking it would be impressive like it was years ago. What I saw were a line of cars that looked like they were made in Taiwan or India. I couldnt believe it. The engine looked like a lawn mower style thing with basic bowed plastic bits. I walked away.
Im sorry. I do not mean to bash them. I do not like being a critic or someone being negative. What Saturn was, and what they are now are two totally different cars.
If you own a Saturn, my apologies. These are only my own personal thoughts and viewpoints.
Bill
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Saturn management style is/was very much different than the rest of GM - this is probably why Saturn appeals to Penske rather than any of the other GM divisions...
cheezyflier
Charter Member
Railrunner130
Charter Member
It was supposed to be a new way of doing business, yet when the rubber hit the road (pun intended) that was the first division to be cut loose. (After Oldsmobile a few years back, that is....) I wasn't a fan of the way they did business. When I bought my Sunfire many years ago, I compared it to the Saturn Coupe and there really was no comparison. I got more car for less $$.
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
Railrunner....
I'd debate that Saturn was doing just fine until sometime close to 2000 (or just afterwards) when corporate GM decided to stick their fingers in Saturn a bit more...
Anyways, bottom line is that Penske has some interest in Saturn
I'd debate that Saturn was doing just fine until sometime close to 2000 (or just afterwards) when corporate GM decided to stick their fingers in Saturn a bit more...
Anyways, bottom line is that Penske has some interest in Saturn
D
Drake
Guest
Several have offered to buy Pontiac. GM refuses to sell.
Panther_99FS
Retired SOH Administrator
"General Motors is currently the best-selling foreign automaker in China, and Buick is number one brand overall, part of the reason that the nameplate was saved during a recent round of cuts that included the elimination of Pontiac. As an example of the growing influence of that marketplace on the company, the interior of the upcoming replacement for the Buick LaCrosse sedan was designed at a GM studio in Shanghai."
--> http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519974,00.html
Reminds me of Microsoft who do not wish to sell or negotiate with FS9 or FSX platforms.
Anyone here know about how to make money? "WHAT DO PEOPLE WANT"??????? (thats the bottom line).
Well made, quality products sell themselves. Take your product that is good 'off' of the sales lines and you starve yourself.
Goodness...
Bill
cheezyflier
Charter Member
well, there we go then, that answers that. i had no idea they were quietly selling mondo amounts of cars in china.:isadizzy:
thanks for the info
J
JSpal
Guest
Saturn had some dark years recently. It seems to me that they went from doing their own thing, to working under the same copy-and-paste paradigm that makes all of GM's lines suffer. The early ones did share components with other GM models (that I'm aware of anyway), but the more recent ones were just the same as a similar Chevy under the skin - which negates the whole reason GM created Saturn in the first place - to make a different brand of cars that would lure people away from the imports.
But that new Astra is a neat little car. Sure it is very little changed from another GM product, but that product is from their European line and not available in the US. It's stylish, it's sporty, it has a European flair. That's what the kids want. With the right marketing program, that car could save Saturn. But the marketing program for it is somewhere between non-existent and deathly boring. It's not bringing the kids in to the dealers to look at the car.
I can't help but think that the failure of GM has been that it is too big. It seems like it's a GM tradition to kill products just as they start to get the attention of the market they should have been going after to begin with.
The Cadillac Alante of the late '80s was a cool looking car for it's age that for most of it's life was hobbled by an uninspiring engine. The Northstar comes along and injects the excitement of a powerful, up-to-date, well designed engine into the product line. The next year GM cancels the sports car, just as enthusiasts are starting to see it as a credible performance car instead of an underpowered posuer.
The Fiero has a similar story. Nobody knew what it was supposed to be when it came out. It looked too sporty to be an economy car, but it was let down by it's economy car underpinnings. A few years later the engineers were finally set free to make it what it should have been from the beginning. Adding a V6, cleaning up the lines, it was finally becoming a valid sports car. GM gave the re-imagined model two years, with little in the way of marketing support, then killed it.
GM's history since the 70's is full of such failures of vision. And I'm convinced that they reason is because the management has become too far removed from the engineers. The engineers don't have the power inside the corporate hierarchy to make the cars that GM should be building, and the management doesn't have the technical savvy to green light the projects they should be, and the two factions rarely get together to hammer out the compromises that turn their disparate visions into good product.
I also fear that recent business decisions inside GM have been aimed at taking the company into bankruptcy so that they can create an environment of crisis that may be conducive to breaking the Union.
But that new Astra is a neat little car. Sure it is very little changed from another GM product, but that product is from their European line and not available in the US. It's stylish, it's sporty, it has a European flair. That's what the kids want. With the right marketing program, that car could save Saturn. But the marketing program for it is somewhere between non-existent and deathly boring. It's not bringing the kids in to the dealers to look at the car.
I can't help but think that the failure of GM has been that it is too big. It seems like it's a GM tradition to kill products just as they start to get the attention of the market they should have been going after to begin with.
The Cadillac Alante of the late '80s was a cool looking car for it's age that for most of it's life was hobbled by an uninspiring engine. The Northstar comes along and injects the excitement of a powerful, up-to-date, well designed engine into the product line. The next year GM cancels the sports car, just as enthusiasts are starting to see it as a credible performance car instead of an underpowered posuer.
The Fiero has a similar story. Nobody knew what it was supposed to be when it came out. It looked too sporty to be an economy car, but it was let down by it's economy car underpinnings. A few years later the engineers were finally set free to make it what it should have been from the beginning. Adding a V6, cleaning up the lines, it was finally becoming a valid sports car. GM gave the re-imagined model two years, with little in the way of marketing support, then killed it.
GM's history since the 70's is full of such failures of vision. And I'm convinced that they reason is because the management has become too far removed from the engineers. The engineers don't have the power inside the corporate hierarchy to make the cars that GM should be building, and the management doesn't have the technical savvy to green light the projects they should be, and the two factions rarely get together to hammer out the compromises that turn their disparate visions into good product.
I also fear that recent business decisions inside GM have been aimed at taking the company into bankruptcy so that they can create an environment of crisis that may be conducive to breaking the Union.
Cratermaker
Charter Member
I wish I could find the article to back me up, but about a year ago there was an item that quoted a GM VP in China saying the GM vehicles sold there were of HIGHER QUALITY then the ones sold in the USA because the Chinese people demand a high quality product. I guess we're just suckers in the US.well, there we go then, that answers that. i had no idea they were quietly selling mondo amounts of cars in china.:isadizzy:
thanks for the info
(I know I am one of those suckers: I have had two GM cars. Never again.)
I totally agree, JPpal. Especially with that second one. I knew gm were sabotaging themelves for some reason. I hadnt thought about getting rid of the unions involvement. That would bring down cost of manufacturing a pretty good bit. Hopefully now the Governments labor departments are now able to handle squirmishes and the like. I am sure the President can intervene as well.
My thoughts were that they were going to move HQ and operations to China.
Bill