Maxstuka
Charter Member
I prefer a SB2U-3 with a wire , than a dive flap. But if you allen can add the two things,We are all very happy.We will destroy with the zeros to the old vindicators. haha
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The Staff of SOH
SB2U-1 and -3 Vindicators.zip
- Thread starter Allen
- Start date
I prefer a SB2U-3 with a wire , than a dive flap. But if you allen can add the two things,We are all very happy.We will destroy with the zeros to the old vindicators. haha
beepee
SOH-CM-2023
SBU2 panel
Hi Gaucho_59,
I have been very impressed by the superb enhancing work you did concerning the SUB2 panel I made together with Allen
Althought this work seems still far from the real panel represented in the picture provided by Allen (see beelow)
View attachment 83720
So I take on me to redraw your work so as it looks more closer to this historical pict
Here is the result of my work
View attachment 83723
By the way, can I ask you to rewiew my work and put your hand on it to finish it, and solve any problem of drawing or perspective ?
That will be a usefull help to the project.
You wil find in the zip file enclosed beside the BMP file of this panel.
View attachment 83722
I have also made a spécial VC panel and a spécial gunsight file to fit with this new panel.
Please, if you can make the job, tell me in this thread and send us a upgrade panel in a zip file.
I have allready done a panel config file with spécial gauges to fit with this panel.
I will send them in this thread if you answer positively to my proposal
Cheers
Beepee
Hi Gaucho_59,
I have been very impressed by the superb enhancing work you did concerning the SUB2 panel I made together with Allen
Althought this work seems still far from the real panel represented in the picture provided by Allen (see beelow)
View attachment 83720
So I take on me to redraw your work so as it looks more closer to this historical pict
Here is the result of my work
View attachment 83723
By the way, can I ask you to rewiew my work and put your hand on it to finish it, and solve any problem of drawing or perspective ?
That will be a usefull help to the project.
You wil find in the zip file enclosed beside the BMP file of this panel.
View attachment 83722
I have also made a spécial VC panel and a spécial gunsight file to fit with this new panel.
Please, if you can make the job, tell me in this thread and send us a upgrade panel in a zip file.
I have allready done a panel config file with spécial gauges to fit with this panel.
I will send them in this thread if you answer positively to my proposal
Cheers
Beepee
beepee
SOH-CM-2023
SB2U panel for french Vough 156
Hi Gaucho_59
The french SB2U Vought 156 had no telescopic sight
Can I ask you to make also a french panel file without the telesecopc sight (by replacing the telescopic sight in the american SB2U panel by the gun sight provided in the original Allen panel)
View attachment 83736
View attachment 83734
Thanks a lot in advance
Beepee
Hi Gaucho_59
The french SB2U Vought 156 had no telescopic sight
Can I ask you to make also a french panel file without the telesecopc sight (by replacing the telescopic sight in the american SB2U panel by the gun sight provided in the original Allen panel)
View attachment 83736
View attachment 83734
Thanks a lot in advance
Beepee
gaucho_59
Charter Member
je serai plus que enchante'
No problem... I will work on this bmp for you... it will be a couple or more days because I am going to Los Angeles Friday evening
and stay there most of Saturday... but I will get it done!
A bientot... depuis le trente Mai je vais en Allemagne pres de la frontiere francaise... pour une annee...
Peutetre que nous nous pouvong trover la'
No problem... I will work on this bmp for you... it will be a couple or more days because I am going to Los Angeles Friday evening
and stay there most of Saturday... but I will get it done!
A bientot... depuis le trente Mai je vais en Allemagne pres de la frontiere francaise... pour une annee...
Peutetre que nous nous pouvong trover la'
I remove the telescopic sight from the V-156-F from the model complately.
View attachment 83742View attachment 83741
I've also had to re-work the texture lines to work with the dive brakes.
View attachment 83742View attachment 83741
I've also had to re-work the texture lines to work with the dive brakes.
beepee
SOH-CM-2023
VoughT 156F/SB2U panel
Hi Gaucho_59
I made some researchs on internet and I finaly finded that the french Vought 156F/SB2U panel had no specific gun sight and would probabily look like the panel I drew for it
View attachment 83817
so you don't need to add a gunsight on the former SB2U panel I send you yesterday.
But if you are kind enough to put you hand on my work to finish it your way, you are welcome
here is the bmp file to deal with...
View attachment 83818
If you feel like doing that, please send back your work in this thread.
Allen said he was going to make a new mdl file without gunsight and with spoilers for the Vought 156F. I think that a panel specially made for this french bird would be usefull.
I already have done the panel config file for this french version, and have also tweaked the texture file and the VC panel. I will upload them after getting your redrawing.
Cheers
Beepee
Hi Gaucho_59
I made some researchs on internet and I finaly finded that the french Vought 156F/SB2U panel had no specific gun sight and would probabily look like the panel I drew for it
View attachment 83817
so you don't need to add a gunsight on the former SB2U panel I send you yesterday.
But if you are kind enough to put you hand on my work to finish it your way, you are welcome
here is the bmp file to deal with...
View attachment 83818
If you feel like doing that, please send back your work in this thread.
Allen said he was going to make a new mdl file without gunsight and with spoilers for the Vought 156F. I think that a panel specially made for this french bird would be usefull.
I already have done the panel config file for this french version, and have also tweaked the texture file and the VC panel. I will upload them after getting your redrawing.
Cheers
Beepee
gaucho_59
Charter Member
started work on making the panel look more...
I started work on making the bmp look like the photo you sent... when I finish it you can judge
whether you like it or not... will include with or without telescopic gunsight or optical reticulum...
you can see what you think...
If you feel like doing that, please send back your work in this thread.
Allen said he was going to make a new mdl file without gunsight and with spoilers for the Vought 156F. I think that a panel specially made for this french bird would be usefull.
I already have done the panel config file for this french version, and have also tweaked the texture file and the VC panel. I will upload them after getting your redrawing.
Cheers
I started work on making the bmp look like the photo you sent... when I finish it you can judge
whether you like it or not... will include with or without telescopic gunsight or optical reticulum...
you can see what you think...
If you feel like doing that, please send back your work in this thread.
Allen said he was going to make a new mdl file without gunsight and with spoilers for the Vought 156F. I think that a panel specially made for this french bird would be usefull.
I already have done the panel config file for this french version, and have also tweaked the texture file and the VC panel. I will upload them after getting your redrawing.
Cheers
The V-156-F model is done. I re-did the basic texture to fit the drive brakes so I did a basic skin for it. My rib spacing was wrong. Just waiting on a new panel.
View attachment 83820
View attachment 83820
beepee
SOH-CM-2023
Vought 156F
Hi Gaucho-59
Thank you for working on the panels jobs for both SB2U (with telecopic scope) and Vought 156F (no telescopic and no sight)
I am eager to see your redrawings.
Cheers
Hi Allen
I get your new Vought 156F. This model looks superb, the antena wires add a lot ...
I noticed that the spoilers did not decrease the speed that much, I tweaked the airfile to get them more efficient when diving.
Concerning the panels, I am looking foward to get Gaucho-59's redrawings, then I will send you the completed new panels for the two birds.
However, to get the VC panel more integrated in the VC view structure, the panel drawing in the "fuse.bmp" has to be recolored in a convinient dark green color...
Its an easy job using the .psd file, you provided, but not that easy to do by everyone (on the numerous allready existing "fuse.files"), and it is not possible to include this "small" upgrade in a new panel file. The best way would be to include this change in the "parts" layer of your different .psd files, and directly in you original textures files. I you want, I can provide you witht the new "part layer" I have done.
Cheers
Hi Gaucho-59
Thank you for working on the panels jobs for both SB2U (with telecopic scope) and Vought 156F (no telescopic and no sight)
I am eager to see your redrawings.
Cheers
Hi Allen
I get your new Vought 156F. This model looks superb, the antena wires add a lot ...
I noticed that the spoilers did not decrease the speed that much, I tweaked the airfile to get them more efficient when diving.
Concerning the panels, I am looking foward to get Gaucho-59's redrawings, then I will send you the completed new panels for the two birds.
However, to get the VC panel more integrated in the VC view structure, the panel drawing in the "fuse.bmp" has to be recolored in a convinient dark green color...
Its an easy job using the .psd file, you provided, but not that easy to do by everyone (on the numerous allready existing "fuse.files"), and it is not possible to include this "small" upgrade in a new panel file. The best way would be to include this change in the "parts" layer of your different .psd files, and directly in you original textures files. I you want, I can provide you witht the new "part layer" I have done.
Cheers
You don't need to edit the fuse.bmp. The $VCpan.bmp is mapped to fully cover the the exterior panel.
View attachment 83891
I changed the black to to this bright pinkish color to show you that the $VCpan.bmp can cover the exterior panel.
I still have to look into how much drag the dive brakes had.
View attachment 83891
I changed the black to to this bright pinkish color to show you that the $VCpan.bmp can cover the exterior panel.
I still have to look into how much drag the dive brakes had.
beepee
SOH-CM-2023
OK Allen
As soon as I get the Gaucho's rewamped panels I will send you the up to date panel packages for both SB2u and Vought 156F birds
Cheers
gaucho_59
Charter Member
Redid panel from photograph....
Got back early from L.A. and redid the panel from scratch...
I think it looks much more like it... as it shows the tubular structure fuselage and besides being
overall more pleasing...it shows the lower gauges panel and the chart tablet that pulls out and
drops down (could even be a feature... as a pop up)
all that would be needed is repositioning gauges... (even I can do that if you provide the config. file)
If you decide to use it... PLEASE... do not work from this jpg as it really deteriorates quality (the last redo you did looks kinda primitive)
I think it is better to use the original bmp (which actually is made from the PSP layered template I originally work in...
View attachment 83928
Got back early from L.A. and redid the panel from scratch...
I think it looks much more like it... as it shows the tubular structure fuselage and besides being
overall more pleasing...it shows the lower gauges panel and the chart tablet that pulls out and
drops down (could even be a feature... as a pop up)
all that would be needed is repositioning gauges... (even I can do that if you provide the config. file)
If you decide to use it... PLEASE... do not work from this jpg as it really deteriorates quality (the last redo you did looks kinda primitive)
I think it is better to use the original bmp (which actually is made from the PSP layered template I originally work in...
View attachment 83928
Cowboy1968
Charter Member
With the new model we now have of the SB2U Vindicator, I thought I would just put together some thoughts on the bird.
Unlike the dive bombers that came before it, the Vindicator is an interesting machine in its development. Unlike the Curtiss SBC and the Vought SBU, the Vindicator didn’t have dive brakes. This was because during the test program this was causing crashes. They made the plane become very unstable in the dive. So they were removed and an alternative method of diving was developed.
This method was to set your engine controls, extend the flaps, drop the landing gear, fly over the target cut throttle and invert and then dive on the target at 60˚ - 70˚ angle. This was opposed to the method used by the other planes and the later dive bombers like the Douglas SBD Dauntless and the Curtiss SBC2 Helldiver. In these planes you would set your engine controls, extend flaps, open dive brakes, fly past the target down his centerline, cut throttles invert and dive on an insane angle of 75˚ to 80˚. No matter which dive bomber you were in, the approach was generally the same. The attack would come in between 9,000 to 12,000 feet. The attack would either come from the stern or the bow. The usual method was to come in on the bow fly past down the centerline to stern and come back in on your turn. It was easier to lead the target that way. Once in the dive the usual method was to dive to about 2,000 feet and release and pull out and slam the throttle forward. But you have to remember something, the bomb gets more accurate with each degree of sharpness in the dive and with each foot closer to the target. Some to the dive bomber pilots wouldn’t release until the last second or about 1,500 feet.
Now we have talked about how the SB2U-3 can be a pig when she is fully loaded with fuel and slinging a 1,000 lb. bomb. Well in all reality this wouldn’t be a normal war load for the bird. Generally when the scout/dive bomber was sent out in the “scouting” role, it only carried a small bomb load, say around 250 lb. weapon, and here the plane would have a maximum fuel load. This was the usual procedure when you didn’t know where a target was. Now here is where we start to play with things. Once located then the bombing, fighter and torpedo squadrons would be sent out. But the war load would depend on the method of attack. Standard USN policy was to close with the enemy and launch an attack from around 250 miles of the target. This should guarantee that the planes have a enough fuel to return to the nest. The lighter the ordinance the more fuel you can carry. So again for the attack the probable bomb load would be a 500 lb. GP bomb. This would allow for plenty of fuel, and well a good chance of a kill against a carrier, cruiser or destroyer. Now if the scouts reported a battleship among the enemy then you would probably send your dive bombers up with the 1,000 lb. bomb, but you would have to compensate by using less fuel on the planes. But, as I said, the attacking range would be below 250 miles.
The Vindicator was able to meet all these requirements, but it still was obsolescent at the time of Midway.
And it shared something with a few other birds there. They were still good and capable machines, but they were out of production. This was same case With the Brewster F2A Buffalo fighter and the Douglas TBD Devastator torpedo bomber. Once the battle was over there just wasn’t enough replacement planes in the general pool to make up for losses. So all three were simply pulled off the line and the remaining machines used as advanced trainers until the wore out.
And it should be pointed out that one of the main reasons the Devastator and Vindicator were brought down was because they didn’t have fighter escort with their attacks. The attacks weren’t coordinated like they should have been. Both torpedo bomber and dive bomber should have hit the target at the same time and they should have had fighters with them. That is how the system and doctrine was designed and when the USN could coordinate its air attacks were deadly.
(I don’t claim to be an expert, but I have been a student of World War II naval aviation now for 25 years)
Unlike the dive bombers that came before it, the Vindicator is an interesting machine in its development. Unlike the Curtiss SBC and the Vought SBU, the Vindicator didn’t have dive brakes. This was because during the test program this was causing crashes. They made the plane become very unstable in the dive. So they were removed and an alternative method of diving was developed.
This method was to set your engine controls, extend the flaps, drop the landing gear, fly over the target cut throttle and invert and then dive on the target at 60˚ - 70˚ angle. This was opposed to the method used by the other planes and the later dive bombers like the Douglas SBD Dauntless and the Curtiss SBC2 Helldiver. In these planes you would set your engine controls, extend flaps, open dive brakes, fly past the target down his centerline, cut throttles invert and dive on an insane angle of 75˚ to 80˚. No matter which dive bomber you were in, the approach was generally the same. The attack would come in between 9,000 to 12,000 feet. The attack would either come from the stern or the bow. The usual method was to come in on the bow fly past down the centerline to stern and come back in on your turn. It was easier to lead the target that way. Once in the dive the usual method was to dive to about 2,000 feet and release and pull out and slam the throttle forward. But you have to remember something, the bomb gets more accurate with each degree of sharpness in the dive and with each foot closer to the target. Some to the dive bomber pilots wouldn’t release until the last second or about 1,500 feet.
Now we have talked about how the SB2U-3 can be a pig when she is fully loaded with fuel and slinging a 1,000 lb. bomb. Well in all reality this wouldn’t be a normal war load for the bird. Generally when the scout/dive bomber was sent out in the “scouting” role, it only carried a small bomb load, say around 250 lb. weapon, and here the plane would have a maximum fuel load. This was the usual procedure when you didn’t know where a target was. Now here is where we start to play with things. Once located then the bombing, fighter and torpedo squadrons would be sent out. But the war load would depend on the method of attack. Standard USN policy was to close with the enemy and launch an attack from around 250 miles of the target. This should guarantee that the planes have a enough fuel to return to the nest. The lighter the ordinance the more fuel you can carry. So again for the attack the probable bomb load would be a 500 lb. GP bomb. This would allow for plenty of fuel, and well a good chance of a kill against a carrier, cruiser or destroyer. Now if the scouts reported a battleship among the enemy then you would probably send your dive bombers up with the 1,000 lb. bomb, but you would have to compensate by using less fuel on the planes. But, as I said, the attacking range would be below 250 miles.
The Vindicator was able to meet all these requirements, but it still was obsolescent at the time of Midway.
And it shared something with a few other birds there. They were still good and capable machines, but they were out of production. This was same case With the Brewster F2A Buffalo fighter and the Douglas TBD Devastator torpedo bomber. Once the battle was over there just wasn’t enough replacement planes in the general pool to make up for losses. So all three were simply pulled off the line and the remaining machines used as advanced trainers until the wore out.
And it should be pointed out that one of the main reasons the Devastator and Vindicator were brought down was because they didn’t have fighter escort with their attacks. The attacks weren’t coordinated like they should have been. Both torpedo bomber and dive bomber should have hit the target at the same time and they should have had fighters with them. That is how the system and doctrine was designed and when the USN could coordinate its air attacks were deadly.
(I don’t claim to be an expert, but I have been a student of World War II naval aviation now for 25 years)
Cowboy1968
Charter Member
Now i have seen mention of handling in the climb. When loaded this plane becomes a bear to get into the air and to altitude. I usually climb the ladder in her. I usually try to climb at about 1,000 to 1,500 feet increments until i get her to altitude. I try to keep airspeed up to around 120 knots in the climb.
It is like the B-17 heavy loaded and under powered. So, climb the ladder with her. Trim her out at altitude and never take your hand off the stick if you don't have to.
It is like the B-17 heavy loaded and under powered. So, climb the ladder with her. Trim her out at altitude and never take your hand off the stick if you don't have to.
dombral
Charter Member
French Vought 156F with her dive brakes
je crois que ça fonctionne très bien bravo !
en prime un survol de la base de ToulonView attachment 83953View attachment 83954
View attachment 83949View attachment 83950View attachment 83952View attachment 83951
je crois que ça fonctionne très bien bravo !
en prime un survol de la base de ToulonView attachment 83953View attachment 83954
View attachment 83949View attachment 83950View attachment 83952View attachment 83951
Cowboy1968
Charter Member
a note on the. .dp, I believe there should also be two wing bomb racks on the US birds for light ordinance...
gaucho_59
Charter Member
Still working on it...
added shadows, rivets and a few more details (legends, handles)
View attachment 83967
added shadows, rivets and a few more details (legends, handles)
View attachment 83967