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The Staff of SOH
Should we open or close Thanksgiving Day
- Thread starter hey_moe
- Start date
The B24 Guy
SOH-CM-2022
It's really a question of freedom.
We should give thanks that retailers have the freedom to be open, and we as consumers are free to shop or not.
Regards,
B24Guy
We should give thanks that retailers have the freedom to be open, and we as consumers are free to shop or not.
Regards,
B24Guy
I wonder how much freedom the employees have to say yes or no for that holiday?
I've seen a few of those too. They won't see my business.
Hey Moe said:
Some of my daughter's friends work retail at major stores and the ones that are having to work Thanksgiving say that the choice is to either work the holiday (some on a double shift) or find another job.
At the grocery store one year it was mandatory, the other year it was voluntary. Guess every employer is different.
srgalahad
Charter Member 2022
Before I respond to the question I have to explain that, until I retired, I may have been on a day off for any of the federal holidays, but if my rotation made it so I worked on Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc. As nice as it sounds for everyone to be able to celebrate these significant days ( even when we forget some of the reasons for their existence) I can't even imagine the reaction to an ATIS message that went:
"NOTAM all ATC services are unavailable today as it Easter/Christmas/Labour Day (etc) and your ATC staff are at home with the family. Normal service will resume tomorrow. Have a safe flight"
However, since ATC, and hospitals and police, among others, are deemed to be "essential services" we accept that not everyone gets the same deal. At least in the units I worked we made every effort to trade/juggle/schedule so that anyone with kids, or planning a family gathering could get at least the major part of the 'normal' day off. (Single guys often got New Years off to allow them the pleasure of enjoying their hangovers)
As far as the non-essential part of the world - and one retail day is pretty non-essential - yes, that's why the holidays are federally or locally mandated ... so that the 'average' person could be assured of having those days free to celebrate or rest. Most labour laws have the loophole that allows for a 'day in lieu' and/or overtime for working on the holiday and many owners took that a step further by threatening action against any employee who actually might want to enjoy the holiday. (Seem to remember a Charles Dickens story about a boss like that...)
Regarding the Thanksgiving/Black Friday debate, it's partly a curse of the US holiday calendar... Thanksgiving falls so conveniently about a month before Christmas that the (big) retail (corporate) owners saw it as perfect timing for a big sale to generate revenue well before the year end to make those books "black" instead of biting fingernails thru Christmas. Since Canadian Thanksgiving is in early October, the concept never took off - too early. We had our own perversion (Boxing Day Dec. 26th) but that's another story.
Should it be a shut-the-door holiday? yes, because most people don't give two hoots about workers' rights.
Is it too late to go back to the concept? Probably as the masses have been raised to believe that personal pleasure (in this case shopping and deals) is far more important than quality of someone else's life and the corporate bean counters don't care crap about any of the 'little people'
"NOTAM all ATC services are unavailable today as it Easter/Christmas/Labour Day (etc) and your ATC staff are at home with the family. Normal service will resume tomorrow. Have a safe flight"
However, since ATC, and hospitals and police, among others, are deemed to be "essential services" we accept that not everyone gets the same deal. At least in the units I worked we made every effort to trade/juggle/schedule so that anyone with kids, or planning a family gathering could get at least the major part of the 'normal' day off. (Single guys often got New Years off to allow them the pleasure of enjoying their hangovers)
As far as the non-essential part of the world - and one retail day is pretty non-essential - yes, that's why the holidays are federally or locally mandated ... so that the 'average' person could be assured of having those days free to celebrate or rest. Most labour laws have the loophole that allows for a 'day in lieu' and/or overtime for working on the holiday and many owners took that a step further by threatening action against any employee who actually might want to enjoy the holiday. (Seem to remember a Charles Dickens story about a boss like that...)
Regarding the Thanksgiving/Black Friday debate, it's partly a curse of the US holiday calendar... Thanksgiving falls so conveniently about a month before Christmas that the (big) retail (corporate) owners saw it as perfect timing for a big sale to generate revenue well before the year end to make those books "black" instead of biting fingernails thru Christmas. Since Canadian Thanksgiving is in early October, the concept never took off - too early. We had our own perversion (Boxing Day Dec. 26th) but that's another story.
Should it be a shut-the-door holiday? yes, because most people don't give two hoots about workers' rights.
Is it too late to go back to the concept? Probably as the masses have been raised to believe that personal pleasure (in this case shopping and deals) is far more important than quality of someone else's life and the corporate bean counters don't care crap about any of the 'little people'
Yes, that is the reason (excuse?) profferred. Think about it: you have a business that operates 363 days a year and 362 produce a daily loss?
You're asking me to believe that Walmart, Target, Macy's et al could not survive without Black Friday when, BTW, they sell stuff at massive discounts? 
Methinks something stinks in this argument!
- H52
The B24 Guy
SOH-CM-2022
Jagdflieger
Jr. Admin
My wife and I were checking out at Fred Myers (a large multi product grocery store in the NW) and I asked the clerk if she had to work on Thanksgiving. She replied (enthusiastically) that, yes, she was working. I asked her if she was getting extra pay and she said that she would receive time and a half. She also said that several of her fellow employees had asked for her shift on Thanksgiving, but that she wouldn't give it up.
I noted an engagement ring on her finger, so I assumed that the young lady did not yet have a family and that working on a holiday posed no issues for a family in her case.
I noted an engagement ring on her finger, so I assumed that the young lady did not yet have a family and that working on a holiday posed no issues for a family in her case.
There are those in the medical and other industries that likewise cannot shut down on holidays that welcome the time-and-a-half pay if they have choice.
Odie
Charter Member
My first job ever was as a "package boy" (yep, that was the job title) in our small town. Remember when grocery stores had people that bagged your groceries, loaded them into the cart, pushed the cart to your car, and then unloaded them into the car? I was one of those guys. I worked at one of two stores owned by the same man. Rumor had it one year that the rival grocery store was going to stay open on Thanksgiving Day. When we asked the owner of our store if we were, his reply was, "If they do, we do."
It's most likely the same now as it was then. At my job now, we operate 24/7, 365 days a year. The lights are always on.
It's most likely the same now as it was then. At my job now, we operate 24/7, 365 days a year. The lights are always on.
RedGreen
Charter Member
In my area here in northwest Indiana, there is a locally owned grocery store chain named "Strack and VanTils". All but one of the stores that is, which was retained by Mr. Strack and his family and is named simply "Stracks." It is the only store in the entire chain that to this day remains closed on Sundays and major holidays. Mr. Strack and his family are devout Mormons and simply will not compromise their principles.
The B24 Guy
SOH-CM-2022
Good luck finding another job in this economy, though.
Good workers will always have another Job.
In my wife's and my business we wese closed two days, Thanksgiving and Christmas.
But, that was our choice and thankfully "for now" the goverment has not used it's power to force us to do otherwise.
Regards,
B24Guy
One of the most successful family owned grocery stores around here was Ukrop's. It started as one store, then grew into a chain. They were always closed on Sundays and the six major holidays (New Year's Day, Memorial Day, Fourth of July, Labor Day, Thanksgiving Day, Christmas Day) and were not open 24 hours a day, but only from 6AM to 10PM. They were also considered expensive, sold no alcohol, but did offer high quality items and personal customer service. Ukrop's was able to out-compete the big guys, like Food Lion, for many years. It was only a couple of years ago that the family sold the chain to Giant/Martins. Now, Martins is open 7 days a week, 52 weeks a year, offers mostly their own brands of food items and most people that I have talked with do not like the quality nor the service.
What brought people to Ukrops and made them so successful was quality items and personal service. Most of the retail stores I go into do not offer anything special and getting someone to assist me in finding something or answering a question is sometimes an impossible mission. If retailers gave the service that Ukrops did, I tend to doubt they would have to resort to having monster sales during a holiday. By the way, some of those monster sales are actually their everyday sales, but with better advertising.
What brought people to Ukrops and made them so successful was quality items and personal service. Most of the retail stores I go into do not offer anything special and getting someone to assist me in finding something or answering a question is sometimes an impossible mission. If retailers gave the service that Ukrops did, I tend to doubt they would have to resort to having monster sales during a holiday. By the way, some of those monster sales are actually their everyday sales, but with better advertising.
I am going to ignore the "Thanksgiving shopping." I think that here in New Jersey a lot of people have other things on their mind, shopping is a very low priority. BTW, I am working tomorrow, feeding people who were a lot less fortunate than me in the hurricane. I cannot think of spending Thanksgiving in a better way.:USA-flag::USA-flag::USA-flag:
