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Please see the most recent updates in the "Where did the .com name go?" thread. Posts number 16 and 17.
Shuttle Atlantis launched
- Thread starter RKinkor
- Start date
Reply...
RKinkor,
The US Space Program is a relic of the Cold War. Space became the next battle ground when Sputnik was launched in 1957, and the whole concept of NASA and the Mercury Seven were created to contest Russian early dominance of space. The US did not catch the Russians until 1965 and 1966, when the Gemini program achieved orbital rendezvous with Gemini VI and VII, and then with the docking of the Agena target vehicle.
Much of the thrust to get to the moon in 1969 was the commitment made to honor the legacy of President Kennedy. Once the Apollo program made it to the moon, you began to see the slow decline of the US Space Program, because people began asking "Why go back now that we've been there, and that we've beaten the Russians?"
When the Soviet Union fell in 1991, there was no longer a imminent threat that was needed to continue justifying the existence of the Space Program, and the notion of advancing science was simply not enough anymore...especially after the death of Christina McAulaffe in 1986 aboard the Challenger.
Couple that with an ancient launch vehicle that was designed in the 1970s, and it was becoming a riskier venture to send up our astronauts in a vehicle that is older than most cars we drive. The Columbia disaster of 2002 is an example.
Until there is another imminent threat (China or India, as an example) that could possibly threaten the United States from "above," interest in the Space Program will be considered by some to be little more than more than "pork barrel spending."
Gulp...sorry....didn't mean to preach. :redf:
RKinkor,
The US Space Program is a relic of the Cold War. Space became the next battle ground when Sputnik was launched in 1957, and the whole concept of NASA and the Mercury Seven were created to contest Russian early dominance of space. The US did not catch the Russians until 1965 and 1966, when the Gemini program achieved orbital rendezvous with Gemini VI and VII, and then with the docking of the Agena target vehicle.
Much of the thrust to get to the moon in 1969 was the commitment made to honor the legacy of President Kennedy. Once the Apollo program made it to the moon, you began to see the slow decline of the US Space Program, because people began asking "Why go back now that we've been there, and that we've beaten the Russians?"
When the Soviet Union fell in 1991, there was no longer a imminent threat that was needed to continue justifying the existence of the Space Program, and the notion of advancing science was simply not enough anymore...especially after the death of Christina McAulaffe in 1986 aboard the Challenger.
Couple that with an ancient launch vehicle that was designed in the 1970s, and it was becoming a riskier venture to send up our astronauts in a vehicle that is older than most cars we drive. The Columbia disaster of 2002 is an example.
Until there is another imminent threat (China or India, as an example) that could possibly threaten the United States from "above," interest in the Space Program will be considered by some to be little more than more than "pork barrel spending."
Gulp...sorry....didn't mean to preach. :redf:
Truly a very sad day for America...One more Reality, Dream, and Myth being Discarded.....The RIGHT STUFF is now no longer. Our heroes then now Old men, and with dim memories of Glories past!!..no more to be realized again!!...It will be harder now,and with misty eye to look at the Moon in the same way......I remember so clearly in 1969, our flag being planted there..If you remember 1969, it was not a great year, Nam, and the division of the nation, the age of Aquarius, anarchy, and of course Charlie Manson......Neil's foot print gave many American, if not the world then, back hope, and dreams. Now those dreams are differed to a different generation not yet born! Some generations to great things, and some do not.....
"For Once You Have Tasted Flight You Will Walk The Earth With Your Eyes Turned Skyward, For There You Have Been, And There You Will Long To Return"..Da Vinci!!
I still also remember the Ringing words of Pres. John Kennedy! a Profile in Courage then!!
"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."
"For Once You Have Tasted Flight You Will Walk The Earth With Your Eyes Turned Skyward, For There You Have Been, And There You Will Long To Return"..Da Vinci!!
I still also remember the Ringing words of Pres. John Kennedy! a Profile in Courage then!!
"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."
Railrunner130
Charter Member
I'm twisted in several directions on this one. While I mostly admit Rami is correct, I'm saddened that we cannot come together as a nation (and world) to support the space program as was done in the post-Kennedy Apollo era. What can best be described as mismanagement on behalf of NASA was, I'm sure a leading factor in the decision to eliminate the shuttle. This angers me that NASA was supposed to be the best and brightest. I'm sure that it partially was.
That being said, I'm hoping the Burt Rutans of the world can step in and come up with new, better and more efficient ways of doing things. I strongly believe in a reusable space shuttle-like concept and hope someone will come up with a multi-purpose vehicle that can potentially go beyond orbit.
That being said, I'm hoping the Burt Rutans of the world can step in and come up with new, better and more efficient ways of doing things. I strongly believe in a reusable space shuttle-like concept and hope someone will come up with a multi-purpose vehicle that can potentially go beyond orbit.
Reply...
Beana and Railrunner,
My first response was rational and emotionless...the teacher in me. Emotionally, I don't like this. I grew up watching The Right Stuff and Apollo 13, along with "From the Earth To the Moon." Men like Chuck Yeager, Jim Lovell, John Glenn, Neil Armstrong, and others are my heroes, too. Admittedly, I am too young to have seen it live, but I am fascinated by the era and technology.
I agree this is a sad moment, and one filled with nostalgia. It seems "no" has replaced the "can do" spirit that put us on the moon, and I believe we need another uniting force like that to propel our nation back to greatness.
I can fully understand why John Glenn would be angry with the thought of a Soyuz being our ticket to space.
Beana and Railrunner,
My first response was rational and emotionless...the teacher in me. Emotionally, I don't like this. I grew up watching The Right Stuff and Apollo 13, along with "From the Earth To the Moon." Men like Chuck Yeager, Jim Lovell, John Glenn, Neil Armstrong, and others are my heroes, too. Admittedly, I am too young to have seen it live, but I am fascinated by the era and technology.
I agree this is a sad moment, and one filled with nostalgia. It seems "no" has replaced the "can do" spirit that put us on the moon, and I believe we need another uniting force like that to propel our nation back to greatness.
I can fully understand why John Glenn would be angry with the thought of a Soyuz being our ticket to space.
I am old enough to have seen the Apollo program live and was fascinated by it then. I was so into everything space related at that time that my parents went out and bought me a fairly decent (by the standards of the day) telescope. We were by no means wealthy and my parents had to pay the HP payments for 3 years to cover the cost but they did it because they could see what it meant to me. I spent many happy hours on cloudless nights gazing at the moon and stars and was even able to see the Orbiter as a tiny pin-prick of light moving across the moon's surface.
It is still amazing when you consider what was accomplished with such feeble technology compared to this day and age. The computers used had less processing power than today's average cell phone and data storage available was less than even the most lowly thumb-drive.
Truly a remarkable period in space exploration.
HouseHobbit
Charter Member
I am Heart broken over What our Government has decided to do with the space program..
We are trusting the Russians, since when did they become a friend to the USA??
Don't trust the Russians and NEVER WILL..
The space race was a point of pride for the USA and all free people in general..
Now we are playing second fiddle to others..:angryfir:
How far we have fallen since the days of moon missions it seems..
We are trusting the Russians, since when did they become a friend to the USA??
Don't trust the Russians and NEVER WILL..
The space race was a point of pride for the USA and all free people in general..
Now we are playing second fiddle to others..:angryfir:
How far we have fallen since the days of moon missions it seems..
Because the US taxpayer has benefited beyond explanation from space exploration. The vast majority of our modern technology has resulted, if indirectly, from the US space program. To say that the US taxpayer has not gotten his or her "dollar's worth" is to ignore most of what we take for granted.
I have concerns about handing the space program over to commercial interests. Corporations, by definition, are focused on bottom lines and shareholders. Safety and innovation come second, and only to the extent that they don't interfere with and/or that they increase profit. While the government had issues with bureaucracy, its goals were (at least advertised as) publicly driven, rather than financially.
Also talk to the thousands of people that are about to lose their jobs in the Central Florida region alone as a result of the shuttering of the program. At a time when we need to be creating jobs, we're putting an awful lot of people out of work because we forgot the higher meaning behind the space program. Ask them whether the space program was "worth it" or whether they think it makes sense that their jobs will be eliminated.
And I disagree that the space program was only, or even mostly about, the Cold War. I think the truth is that the Cold War was an easy excuse at the time, but people need to be reminded that going to space is so much more than that. Those who asked, "why are we going back now that we've beaten the Russians" or think that we need a threat from above to keep a space program going are missing the larger point. Space exploration inspires greatness. It brings into sharp relief that we are one planet of people, and that when we work together, we can create something greater than the sum of its parts. I have to think that, even if one of the reasons for instituting the space program was the Cold War, the space program helped to end it.
I'm not trying to instill controversy; I'm just trying to explain the other side of the coin.
Godspeed Atlantis, and I look forward to what's next.
I have concerns about handing the space program over to commercial interests. Corporations, by definition, are focused on bottom lines and shareholders. Safety and innovation come second, and only to the extent that they don't interfere with and/or that they increase profit. While the government had issues with bureaucracy, its goals were (at least advertised as) publicly driven, rather than financially.
Also talk to the thousands of people that are about to lose their jobs in the Central Florida region alone as a result of the shuttering of the program. At a time when we need to be creating jobs, we're putting an awful lot of people out of work because we forgot the higher meaning behind the space program. Ask them whether the space program was "worth it" or whether they think it makes sense that their jobs will be eliminated.
And I disagree that the space program was only, or even mostly about, the Cold War. I think the truth is that the Cold War was an easy excuse at the time, but people need to be reminded that going to space is so much more than that. Those who asked, "why are we going back now that we've beaten the Russians" or think that we need a threat from above to keep a space program going are missing the larger point. Space exploration inspires greatness. It brings into sharp relief that we are one planet of people, and that when we work together, we can create something greater than the sum of its parts. I have to think that, even if one of the reasons for instituting the space program was the Cold War, the space program helped to end it.
I'm not trying to instill controversy; I'm just trying to explain the other side of the coin.
Godspeed Atlantis, and I look forward to what's next.
I think that one was the last flight of the "Endeavour", which was 'ours', since it was named after Captain Cook's ship.
This was the last one of all - the end of an era of great achievement, which brought many life-enhancing innovations. In our case, we would not have computers to run flight sims on, if it hadn't been for the NASA share of the US Defense budget.
Cheers
MikeW
Great Comments....with all my sadness,I still feel the continuing quest by the human race will not,can not be stopped...The Evolution of mankind still goes on,be it an OCEAN,Mountain range ,or a Jungle...man always wondered .whats over that hill??....our very story on earth shows that.,from out of the Caves, and down from the trees,....lets face it...other than the dreamers of flight, for thousand of years,its only since 1903 ,that man has successfuly left the ground....a scant 108 yrs...It took millions just to get to the now USA......so it will have to be another generation now to go to outer space with real goals.,The RIGHT STUFF never has failed us,never will....For in the not too distant future,this old bus we are on will start to break down,worn out,time for a new vehicle to transport humans thru space,and to live on......I do not think the end of Humans will be ,like other life forms,from the destruction of their Environment...man can change his location for better Environment....yes new worlds,to be inhabited by men...I have to believe that,for mankind to be around in the other future....Science fiction?...a Guy walking on the MOON was thought that also...''we can take change as matter of factually....
My grand pa,as a kid. 1886, seen the Buffalo wild west Show, in NYC.from the horse and wagon times,had ,in his life time seen it all,from the Wright Bros, all of Aviation,to a man in the moon,and for him , and in his 90s ,he said thats s they way it supposed to be!...He regarded 1969,the Moon walk as a high in his long life!!.Old glory on the moon,one step for mankind!That one event more than others .I do too,now at 79yrs..Hope I make it to a see a MARS landing!.BY PEOPLE!!...hey one never know do one???...thanx fer letting me BLOVAITE !!
My grand pa,as a kid. 1886, seen the Buffalo wild west Show, in NYC.from the horse and wagon times,had ,in his life time seen it all,from the Wright Bros, all of Aviation,to a man in the moon,and for him , and in his 90s ,he said thats s they way it supposed to be!...He regarded 1969,the Moon walk as a high in his long life!!.Old glory on the moon,one step for mankind!That one event more than others .I do too,now at 79yrs..Hope I make it to a see a MARS landing!.BY PEOPLE!!...hey one never know do one???...thanx fer letting me BLOVAITE !!
warchild
Charter Member
I've been pissed about this very thing for the last couple weeks.. To me, not going to space is a major step backwards into the dark ages. Rami was correct in his first post. Many will simply see it as a waste of money and time. They always have.. Funny how many of the opponents to space flight are the same people screaming to yet again raise the defense budget so we can build new bombers, new missiles, new ways to ensure the destruction of the human race.
The truth is, if there is going to be any future space exploration, its going to fall to the corporations to pursue it. With the mineral wealth on the moon and mars, theres plenty of incentive to go, but space exploration will never again be what it was. We may as well go back to living in the dark ages.
The truth is, if there is going to be any future space exploration, its going to fall to the corporations to pursue it. With the mineral wealth on the moon and mars, theres plenty of incentive to go, but space exploration will never again be what it was. We may as well go back to living in the dark ages.
warchild
Charter Member
Beana..
"The Right Stuff" Was never a quality of a nation, but rather a very few human beings. Visionaries perhaps, dreamers definitely. they were people who set out on their own and changed history. Emporer Xin, Kubli Khan, Ghengis Khan, Ceasar Augustus, The person we know as Columbus, Lewis and Clark, all of them. Individuals who lived by their own rules, who walked their own path.. That kind of right stuff will never die, but, the kind of right stuff ballyhooed by the government, was never really the right stuff at all.. Just a spin on propaganda.. I can foresee Japan pursuing space exploration, and possibly China, but America is only concerned about its weapons and defense. Might, instead or right..
Pam
"The Right Stuff" Was never a quality of a nation, but rather a very few human beings. Visionaries perhaps, dreamers definitely. they were people who set out on their own and changed history. Emporer Xin, Kubli Khan, Ghengis Khan, Ceasar Augustus, The person we know as Columbus, Lewis and Clark, all of them. Individuals who lived by their own rules, who walked their own path.. That kind of right stuff will never die, but, the kind of right stuff ballyhooed by the government, was never really the right stuff at all.. Just a spin on propaganda.. I can foresee Japan pursuing space exploration, and possibly China, but America is only concerned about its weapons and defense. Might, instead or right..
Pam
Terry
SOH-CM-2016
I have to disagree with part of this. The American military is being cut too. All the money is going to a good cause namely the purchase of votes to reelect incumbents. Power and wealth for politicians is what its all about!
Great Leaders are the product of great people...the two can be indistinguishable...Great leaders reflect great people!..they are the catalyst ,which can motivate great people.
such a person for this conversation was of course JFK, he then ,again reflected great people in his call for a man on The moon!.....it was not one man but great people who accomplished that.The RIGHT STUFF!.from the Old ladies doing the complex wiring,to the Guy who risked all,out of a sense of not fear ,but belief,a dedication for success,a fulfillment of the few representing the many for Achievement...Always the people in support,always success...That path would have been discarded by lesser people,after the tragedies of the program, they would have walked away,not these People,not these leaders...it was always the MOON and beyond.......These People are still here,they will give us the great leaders...from those ranks come the RIGHT STUFF!
We talk nostalgically of the GREATEST GENERATION,let me reassure all, all American generations are the greatest..just TASK them ,and its there!!..again thanx..meanwhile ,there are men out there,doing it,and we have a Re entry to look forward too..it Ain't over till Its over!!.. Cheers Vin
such a person for this conversation was of course JFK, he then ,again reflected great people in his call for a man on The moon!.....it was not one man but great people who accomplished that.The RIGHT STUFF!.from the Old ladies doing the complex wiring,to the Guy who risked all,out of a sense of not fear ,but belief,a dedication for success,a fulfillment of the few representing the many for Achievement...Always the people in support,always success...That path would have been discarded by lesser people,after the tragedies of the program, they would have walked away,not these People,not these leaders...it was always the MOON and beyond.......These People are still here,they will give us the great leaders...from those ranks come the RIGHT STUFF!
We talk nostalgically of the GREATEST GENERATION,let me reassure all, all American generations are the greatest..just TASK them ,and its there!!..again thanx..meanwhile ,there are men out there,doing it,and we have a Re entry to look forward too..it Ain't over till Its over!!.. Cheers Vin
One hundred percent agree! It ain't over until the "wheels stop" call. And maybe the answer is that we as a people need to remind government of those famous lines - that government exists at the consent of the governed, that we have a government of the people, FOR the people, and by the people, that maybe it's once again time (as it should've been all along) to ask ourselves not what our country can do for us, but what we can do for our country.
We are in the shape we're in through our own actions (or inactions); we need to get up, dust ourselves off and do those things that benefit all mankind.
Thoughts on a Monday morning...